Tesla P85D Experiences

[Tearin]

Originally posted by killramos
You know the easy way to settle this once and for all would be call tesla service and ask them to quote you on a 90kW upgrade from your 85 w/ xxx km on the current trade in.

That's what I would do if I wanted to know how much something would cost for any other car lol.

As a current owner I would hope they would give you the time of day?

Yep, been there done that (when initially getting in the queue for Ludicrous).

We do have a good idea (but not 100% confirmed) of the retail cost (posted above - guessing it's 11.6K USD), but not if there will be any discount for current owners. I think they are gauging interest before they announce "upgrade" pricing.

Best they will say is that it should/could be the 80% core trade-in (minimum). But Van wants to see what happens in the US, and whether there is any deal for us 85kW owners who might have bought 6 months before the new batteries came out (and maybe we should be "s-o-l"). We are supposedly getting the Ludicrous at half price, so MAYBE they are waiting to gauge the interest on the 90's before they announce upgrade pricing. But it can't be worse than the cost of a new 90kW - 80% of the cost of a new 85. I just don't think they can (or are) offer a 90 cell for sale yet, so they don't have pricing on it, but prorated up from an 85, retail should be about 47.5K - core. But maybe the changes required were more expensive than simple math like that, and it could be more money, not sure.

In all three convos I've had since it was announced, there are being very tight lipped "officially", and just providing the "company line". So we don't know either the CDN cost of the Ludicrous (exch rate and labour unknown), nor the cost to upgrade to a 90, if it's going to be less than retail...maybe they don't want to overpromise and underdeliver again and are waiting till they are actually ready to start doing the battery swap work, before announcing prices. But, then why tell us Ludicrous was half price, already....maybe cause they knew they had to clean up the mess around saying the speed increase would be free (software only), but they never said we would get a 90kW pack for free, so I'm assuming they don't feel as "obligated" (read: damage control) to announce a rebate for P85D guys, when they announced the new P90D. I don't expect to get something for free on a battery upgrade (vs the Ludicrous which was supposed to be free), BUUTT, maybe they will raise the trade in from 80% to 90% for healthy batteries that are under a year old. That is the type of announcement I am waiting to hear. So, if there is a "rebate", I'm sure we will get that pricing just before they are ready to start offering it. I hope it's 90% trade in for newer packs, as I won't do it for the retail to 80% retail price...to me it's not worth it yet for only 6% more range. I need like 20% more range for the trips I take, ("others"mmv). But if the core is 90%, hmmm....that might be only 7.5K USD...really tho, I need at least a 100kW pack, and 105kW would be ideal, (which is a few years off).

But really, they have no reason to do an 85kW to 90kW swap this year, any way other than retail on 90 minus 80% retail on the 85 exchanged, and no current owner should expect any different - anything they do different will be generous and will likely be based on allowing >80% trade in value on say the <1yr old 85kW packs. If they don't and it's retail - 80% retail, then the guesstimated calcs from a few posts above suggest its $11.6K USD for the upgrade.

So I think, basically, we have to wait till the 90kW cells are even available to buy from the service centers...We can argue that they should know the price already, but it seems the service centers still do not...guess in the last two weeks no P90D owner has accidentally damaged his battery pack in a way that isn't covered by its warranty, and hence need to buy a new one at retail.

[B18C]

Originally posted by killramos
You know the easy way to settle this once and for all would be call tesla service and ask them to quote you on a 90kW upgrade from your 85 w/ xxx km on the current trade in.

That's what I would do if I wanted to know how much something would cost for any other car lol.

As a current owner I would hope they would give you the time of day?

That's where Tesla is failing IMO. Their communication is terrible. They announce Ludacrious and the battery upgrade, we get all excited and then don't hear anything two months later (must be close to that now).

First the ridiculous wait for "autopilot " and now this. Pretty sure the upgrade is nowhere near ready for prime time. My guess is that they announced it prematurely to pump up excitement. Their orders probably took a dip as people wait to see what the Model X is about.

[killramos]

Ok well ludicrous and other new vapour features aside I take it from your posts that currently there is no way to upgrade to the 90kW battery from the 85? Like if you drove your car into a tesla service bay today gave them your unlimited limit Amex and said change the battery to a 90kW they would tell you to pound sand?

I assume service centres will be able to quote a replacement for your 85 kW pack? It probably doesn't cost any less than the 90 as its a pretty incremental change. Or is that even not really a thing?

Just seems like some horrible customer service for such an expensive vehicle. that kind of issue would make me very worried about if there was something actually wrong with mine. If they can't quote you on a battery replacement, a real quote ( legal contract) not media or forum bluster, how can you expect them to be able to repair one

[01RedDX]

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[killramos]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
Or maybe they are waiting for the gigafactory to come online, because the entire point of it is to vastly improve the supply and availability (and therefore costs) of new and replacement battery packs? As an owner, why would I want to know the current price for something that is expected to last 8+ years, especially knowing that the company is working specifically to reduce those costs in the near future?

That factory isn't even close to online and the drop in costs is complete speculation (I am sure it will work great and lower costs but let's not count chickens before they hatch, which I know is teslas style) , I'm really just trying to get to the bottom of what tesla will give you for your current battery after it has been used even for a year or a few months. A gigafactory won't affect that value unless somehow a huge portion of that assembly line is dedicated to battery refurbishment...

Im just trying to separate facts from speculation and if I had a tesla with my own vin and mileage to call in with is make the call right now to ask for the quote to satisfy my curiosity. Which is why I asked the question to the 2 above posters who actually own the things.

If anyone wants me to get a quote for a repair cost on my bmw I would be happy to oblige. But I know for a fact the dealer isn't going to be buying any of my old parts no matter how new or unused to offset my costs. Same reason I have a bmw open differential sitting in my garage.

[01RedDX]

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[killramos]

"Seething hate"



Anyone who is reasonable skeptical about a company who's claims proved time and time again to be full of shit is now considered hateful. Glwt.

[01RedDX]

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[CanmoreOrLess]

Originally posted by killramos
&quot;Seething hate&quot;



Anyone who is reasonable skeptical about a company who's claims proved time and time again to be full of shit is now considered hateful. Glwt.

Share this list you speak of.

[Tearin]

Originally posted by killramos
Ok well ludicrous and other new vapour features aside I take it from your posts that currently there is no way to upgrade to the 90kW battery from the 85? Like if you drove your car into a tesla service bay today gave them your unlimited limit Amex and said change the battery to a 90kW they would tell you to pound sand?

I assume service centres will be able to quote a replacement for your 85 kW pack? It probably doesn't cost any less than the 90 as its a pretty incremental change. Or is that even not really a thing?

Just seems like some horrible customer service for such an expensive vehicle. that kind of issue would make me very worried about if there was something actually wrong with mine. If they can't quote you on a battery replacement, a real quote ( legal contract) not media or forum bluster, how can you expect them to be able to repair one

Yep, I bet it'll be a few more weeks before anyone can "buy" a 90kW pack. I'm sure they all are (and should be) going into the current P90D cars that have been ordered. Again, as I said before, until someone wrecks their 85 or 90 pack (in the last two weeks since the 90 packs rolled off the line) and hence has a VALID, PRIORITY reason to get a 90kW pack now then I doubt we will find out the price from HQ. Just about any other reason to replace a pack for breakage is probably covered by warranty, and I'm sure Tesla can manage that internal accounting behind the scenes, once the prices get set in the future, as the local stores do not know the price (last I spoke to them). So, they're 2 weeks into deliveries of P90Ds and as of yet they don't NEED to know the price, but yes, maybe they SHOULD. I am sure as soon as the first P90D customer asks to actually get a replacement pack that they wrecked themsleves (perhaps in an accident) then for sure they will have a price very fast.

But, it seems you are dismissing something a bit too strongly from a few of the prior posts. WE DO know the price to swap out an 85 for an 85, and even a 60 for an 85. Again, it seems that folks, even with two year old pack,s could walk into Tesla, and do an 85 to 85 for 45K USD - 0.8 * 45K (as the core is 80% at that age/condition). This is fact recently. It isn't something we need to see in a contract to know it has been true, and it should still hold true, and timw when tel when more people actually do swaps...the deep pocketed P85D owners proabably puttin in 90kW a pack in a month or two (guessing). Batteries less than two years old all seem to be getting 80%. I don't disagree this trade in value should be more transparent, and I'd like to see the 80%/60%/40% core credit table for say 2yr/4yr/6yrs out and/or 40km/80km/120km usage, provided its still a heathy battery - don't quote those values of course, just throwing out numbers. If it exists, I'm sure if I asked Vancouver for it, I might get it, if they are allowed by HQ to give it out, as they might not if its only a guideline vs a firm rule - maybe they can't because core credit is is highly dependant on actual condition regardless of years or km driven, and HQ could just as easily say, hey, core costs are not definitive, let us put yours on the "test bench" in Van, and we'll let you know the trade-in value then. if I were running it, and it was a small business, for sure my trade in credit that I offered would only be based on actual measured condition via full load testing. But this is a car company, they're not small, and so things could be done differently than that. I think there will be enough 85kW pack owners that will consider going to 90, that we will know those answers soon enough...but yes, it will still be firstly be known to the masees through forum banter.

So let's assume we do know the 85/85 swap costs, even if none of us was silly enough to actually ask for a quote to change out our perfectly good batteries with the same sized pack....then the next issue is when upgrading to the 90kW cells, some owners feel the historically proven 80% trade-in is too low, and want 90% if the cells are virtualy knew. Is this unrealistic to expect, maybe, but again, the sentiment is out there. That is why there are two unknowns from going from an 85 to a 90kW pack today. The precise cost of the 90 is unknown, and owners want to hear there is better than 80% trade in on our new packs (whether that's doable or not remains to be seen). I expect you picked that up from the posts earlier, but given the still unknowns, it then makes it much harder to "put it in writing". Sure, telling us the price of a 90kW pack should be easy, and I agree I should be able to get that price, but I can't yet (last time I asked). BUT, its a big big business decision that could set precedents for quite a while to say that they will offer us 90% trade on < 1yr old virstually new batteries when upgrading to a bigger capacity pack. The thing is, they know exactly what their exposure is to offer every P85D owner on the planet the Ludicrous at half price, but, and again, it a big BUT, saying that we can upgrade <1yr old 85's and get 90% trade-in will be a precedent that others will want then the 90 gets replaced by a 100, then 110, etc. This is a much bigger decision with a potentially much larger scope and precedent. Reversing a decsion like that for people looking to go from 90 to 100 to 110, etc in the future won't be taken well by owners at the time. It's very hard to claw back past precendent without p'ing off those owners who won't get it.

Earlier, you queried a bit whether I was a Tesla fanboy, and I said nope, I'm just a fanboy of performance cars....I'll tout the car's strengths, and it's weaknesses.

So, I also agree Tesla doesn't communicate well, esp on on a personal level, but I'm not going to get into that in a public forum as it's been an ongoing and yet unresolved issue. Their worse than some customer service, better than others (think telecom or cable, d'oh). Basically I feel like they are growing faster than they know how to manage, and that's about all I'll say on that.

BUT, whether it's true or not, you sound a bit like you have a chip on your shoulder about Tesla, and intentionally or not, you have glazed over that it was mentioned a few times that we DO know that core refunds on good battery packs are 80% of retail right now based on people who have done it in that past, so we know the price for an 85 to 85, or a 60 to 60, 60 to 85, etc. The point is, I don't feel its fair to expect the Service Manager to "put it in writing" for the only thing he actually has prices for, like a 60 to 85, or 85 to 85, when no one is actually asking to do it...and he would know it's bs, cause anyone ACTUALLY considering doing it now would simply wait a month or two and do it with a 90pack! So its hard to get the 85/85 in writing if it's a bogus request. And even if the manager tries, using the data he has today, to put in writing what he thinks the cost for an 85 to 90 swap is, he'd probably be guessing that it's 80% core, and he could be wrong if HQ says, naw, for <1yr old healthy batteries, lets do 90% core. So, it appears HQ is getting to it when they need to: when the batteries ARE ready to go into our EXISTING cars. Heck, upgrades probably haven't happened a lot, so maybe they will change the 80% amount for the core once more people start swapping (ratio goes up?, down?, heck, could be either), but others HAVE gotten this 80% trade in on upgrade.

So, that part was mentioned a few times, albeit in the longish posts up above and on the prior pages, and sure, I wasn't askingTesla for that to be written down in a quote. I was more thinking: hey guys, you told us it was half price for Ludicrous, which I feel is still to much as I thought it would be free, but seeing as you did put the effort into figuring THAT out pretty closely to what it will actually be, why the heck can't you give us the guesstimate of the battery upgrade price too - again, the only reason they might have done the former and not the latter is because they HAD to do the former in order to deliver us more of the 691Hp, "via that supposed free software improvement' - So, I'm OK beating them up for what they did and will do badly, but to me, I only WANT (none of us NEED) to know about the battery upgrade costs, and yes, I think maybe they SHOULD know the answer to how much it will cost, but to be fair, I can also see others businesses not knowing the price of a brand new widget that isn't really for sale separately yet, as it's supplied as part of a larger widget, and no one had broken that widget yet and hence asked for a price to replace it, not by warranty, so they don't know its exact retail price yet, only two weeks after it hit the market, and again, as a subpart.

I COULD force the issue and get an 85 to 85 price in writing, but my Service Manager would know it was a BS request, but yes, he would give it to me as a quote, in writing, but we still both would know it was a BS request. But I would know the exact process to valuate my battery, leading to me knowing MY particular battary exchange value. And if I don't have to et the car to Van to do this, I might, but why ask till after the Van office finds out the 90Kw pack cost. So we both wait till they know the 90KW price from HQ, as I doubt owners want their service centers to look at them like they are a$$e$: as owners we could push HQ to get the exact price for a 90 NOW, perhaps, but we'd be doing it for something that we know is still months off, and they will just reply with: "details will follow as we're still months off". So the incentive to push is cause we WANT to know, but not cause we NEED to know yet.

So, I'll beat them up for what I think they did are are doing bad with the P85D (and I'll tout them for what they did or are doing well).

Plus, the "you bought a '$150K' car" argument can be used the other way too..yes, we bought an expensive car and deserve to be treated with a bit more timely info about costs, but these guys are the other end (and some of this threads lurkers) could be feeling a bit like, guys, you just dropped $150K and you're worried about whether the 90kW battery is 15K USD, 17.5K USD, or 20K USD to upgrade, and are so impatient you have to know before its even available...geez, relax...be happy with the 85 you have, the fact your battery is working, and hey, if you CAN afford to spend that much to get 6% more mileage, then: "don't worry, it'll be in that $15-20K range, and we'll let you exactly know in a few months...would you like to get on the priority list to do it if te price is right, no obligation". But ya, if you can afford to do it, and want to do it, 15K vs 20K is probably not going to change your mind one way or the other, so maybe either plan get the money in a few months to do it, or don't. So, to me that would be their attitude if they truly had "horrible customer service", as it's probably just as easy to look at it that way, and stepping back for a moment, probably some readers of this thread don't really have much sympathy for owners whining about +/- 5K on a new battery. So, I came more to talk about driving experiences, and didn't come here "primarily" to talk about the cost of the car other than wrt it's bang for the buck, esp as it was $$$. I've actually never spent over $23K on any car, all were used (I think I've owned 18?) so I also think that us whining about not being able to know how much it costs to get to our full 691Hp is one of the best definition of "first world problem" that I've ever heard, and that it won't get a lot of sympathy, so "I" will try to stop talking about it now.

Both owners in this thread have now said that Tesla's communication is poor (not like I think there is much better communication from other car companies, but I think Tesla is currently below average, esp as it seems, compared to ther car companies, their announcements seemed more advertising for the market than to potential future buyers, and they sound a lot more like a tech company pumping the investments via premature press releases - something I am going to have to get used to when dealing with them I guess - reminding myself that it's expected, this is Elon, AND this is not a traditional car company).

But, imo, it might be a bit harsh to call it horrible customer service to not give us quotes in writing, on the newest battery widget which just got put in cars a few weeks ago, and no one else really can put the newest battery widget into their old car yet anyways, so its all moot till then as to knowing exactly whether its 15K or 20K...which we wont know imo till all the ordered P90D deliveries are met I'm sure (and now the X vehicles need those 90 packs too - and if I was the owner of the company, I'd want all available 90 packs to go to them too, before 85kW owners - assuming there aren't enough packs to meet all current demand, but that might be a bad assumtion tho). So, current owners take second priority, and that's exactly the way it should be imo. Others are waiting for cars they don't have yet, and we have perfect working 85kW packs so why would a 90kW pack come to us yet. These guys are focused on growing the business, the P90D announcement and its deliveries, and now, the X deliveries. I think once that has passed, and Ludicrous is ready, the 90kW packs and pricing for us will mysteriously come at the exact same time, and we will know if we get 90% (or other) trade-in for our used packs.

BTW, final comment, circling back again: even 80% is well above the other numbers mentioned in earlier posts wrt how much trade in on used batteries we should see, so some probably think that 80% is extremely generous. Dunno, again, maybe 20% of the batteries do the heavy lifting damaging type of work, and the rest are babied, as long as the battery pack stays within 10-80% charge. Might head over to the Tesla forums this week and see if there is any better answers about this and how they can offer such a high trade-in.

So, I'm not going to focus too much anymore on us not knowing the 90kWh battery pack price, 'cause we do at least know the 80% trade-in seems to be the minimum being offered for anyone who had wanted to upgrade in the past...but ya, they have room to improve in lots of areas, but darn it all, they can't be perfect either nor did I expect them to be...they gave us a sub 3 sec sedan for 150K, and I'll be very happy with that and hope for the best > the issue is more that I know and recognize that I am an early adoptor, not of Tesla, but of the P85Dual motor...so as long as it performs in the winter well, then I will be very happy... those two motors and how they integrate are going to get the mother of all tests before I ever take it onto Hyw 22 with it's 80kph crosswinds, 6-12" high drifts, and "1xx" kph passing speeds.

[01RedDX]

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[Tearin]

Originally posted by killramos


Im just trying to separate facts from speculation and if I had a tesla with my own vin and mileage to call in with is make the call right now to ask for the quote to satisfy my curiosity. Which is why I asked the question to the 2 above posters who actually own the things.

Good point killramos, [and heads up 01RedDX, some of us 85kW owners might actually want to know this now, for sure we will want to know when the next cell, hopefully a 100kWh unit comes out, as some of us MAY upgrade long before the 8 years, to get more range (the more I think about it, the more I think I will). So it isn't totally moot. I guarantee there are guys with deep enough pockets that someone will do the 85-90 swap when it comes out.]

So, I'm quoting your comment again killramos, to re-mention something I had offered up in my reply above this one: maybe the 85 pack trade in value is NOT able to be based off of a chart like Costco/CT/Walmart can do with a Lead acid battery warranty given the serial# and manufacture date (i.e:. based only on VIN (mnfctr date) and km) Why can/do they do that, dunno...competition with other battery companies, having much more extensive background of Lead Acid car battery rebuild costs (recover, melt and reuse?)...not sure, again, I'm not a battery guy.

But, as I guessed blindly in the post above, maybe Tesla needs to fully load test each cell "block" set, in Vancouver before confirming they will give the 80% or higher or lower trade-in. And no one can get a 90 yet, so theres no rush to test our batteries now, if thats the case, as it would probably still need to be repeated when the 90kW pack is actually ordered and paid for. Also cause it's a very high cost item, so maybe it can't/shouldn't simply be stated as 80/60/40 at xyz years/km as thats not enough accuracy in trade in costs - tho they seem to have been using a generic and simple number like 80% number in the past.

[Tearin]

Originally posted by killramos



If anyone wants me to get a quote for a repair cost on my bmw I would be happy to oblige. But I know for a fact the dealer isn't going to be buying any of my old parts no matter how new or unused to offset my costs. Same reason I have a bmw open differential sitting in my garage.

Interesting "fact"...this is kinda starting to border on making absolute statements, which are too easy to prove wrong and discredit...so, sure, while it might be right for you, it's not right in every case about BMW. Buy an i3 or i8 and I'm pretty confident BMW will give you a core for those batteries if you needed to swap them for some odd reason. And, I'm sure you know this already so I won't go too far into this, but you kinda took us in this direction, so here goes: it IS common in the auto industry to get money for your traded-in parts, even non-working ones: just don't deal exclusively with BWM, walk into Napa, get a core refund on your alternator, your starter, your water pump, etc, etc, etc. Buy your next battery at Costco or Walmart (don't buy CT, this isn't a Lead Acid 12V battery thead so I won't get into that), and you'll get a core for any old battery you drop off, and you'll get a prorated warranty on the new one, and with them, its pretty much no questions asked too.

And depending on what's wrong with it (I assume you just swapped out to an LSD and nothing is actually wrong with it), but if it is broken, you might even be able to pay someone in town to get that diff freshened up, and then sell it on eBay. If that's worth your time to try to do (might not be). I mention this as with the batteries, there will be a market for them too, if they have value, which it appears somehow they do. If Tesla didn't offer a trade in, and if those cells were in great shape, someone would buy them from us, even if not Tesla. But they have an incentive to rebuild them themselves, for us. Cause they want this to work and want EVs to proliferate (if you buy into their buzz).

So, and it's been stated a few times already but I'm going to drive the point home, some types of used batteries in some services, do appear to have quite a bit of residual used value on trade in.

[Tearin]

Originally posted by CanmoreOrLess



Share this list you speak of.

Ditto, pls.

If I need to more untrusting of them, I'd like a bit more info/facts to help prove this out, cause as a current owner, I am vested in knowing info like this.

I know of a few Tesla "overpromises and under-delivers" but they are working to fix those, and I know of rollouts that come slowly and some aspects have been up to a year to happen (but I actually knew this going in, based on my research last Ocober when switching from buying an RS7 to buying a P85D), but, I also saw a lot lot more successes and fully realized claims.

One issue, and its a biggie imo, that you don't need to list for me cause I know about it already (and I'll say it here quickly, but I could write pages on this a a Mec E and also having 3/4 of an EE too, and my MBA): I feel it was "interesting" marketing around the summed 691 "Motor" Hp and subsequent not correcting the car mags hyping (and I don't buy the "hey ICE uses engine Hp but only delivers rwhp" and we kinda did the same, nor the lack of any real govn rules it appears on rating motor power in cars in a clear way for the end user - In any case, its not the same argument as rwhp in way way imo, they knew the fuses and hence the pack/cells couldn't handle that much power draw for >3sec and were working on a fix - so it was marketed interestingly...I, like many, did have to come to terms with the fact that maybe I dont have a true 691Hp car, I have a 3.2 sec car, soon to be 2.8 (and a much much better 1/4), and in the end, they fixed it, which is all that matters. The "equivalent Hp" to move a 5000# car that fast is all that really matters to me. Did they screw up their tech specs to me as a Mec E, yep, but again, to me deciding to buy a P85D last year is still early adopter phase, so I better be intelligent and mature and expect that as an early adopter, there are going to be issues technically with the car such as weird reporting of Hp, and inability to provide a free increase in power past 30mph (but, I don't want issues with the company as it has been around a long enuf time for me that more of the bugs I am seeing I think should have been worked out, and this isn't their leaders first rodeo either, yet, I've had one "company" issue that's still ongoing).

I'm not asking you to put a lot of time into this, but if it's easy to do it, I am morbidly curious about other issues Tesla has had, as I thought I had researched them enough to know that it was relatively safe to get a Tesla, even as an early adopter of the dual motor: if there are other lies, big issues that are unresolved, etc, maybe pm them to me, or point me to the thread where I can find such a list (and also so this thread stays a bit more about Tesla P85D performance). I'm not overly keen on looking again for a laundry list of issue as I thought I had looked pretty well last October, so if I can ask, maybe stir up my appetite to go out and do some more research, by mentioning a few things I should go out and research more about. Not looking for a lot of work/help from you, just a little help narrowing down a focus, topics to google, etc. If it was Space-X, something like "explosions on launch", etc. High level stuff.

[Tearin]

FIRST GRAVEL TEST - Been 25 years since I've really done any dirt/gravel high speed driving (not anywhere near rally racing speeds tho), and it was limited to an old Mazda, an X1/9, and a Karmann Ghia, so definately not high Hp, no AWD, no TC, much narrower tires, and pretty sure none had LSD. I have a lot better experience ice racing, and with a higher Hp turbo car too - hence much more like the Tesla (and I know, why ice race a turbo...cause, it's what I had), but again, that type of better testing will have to wait till the winter.

Conditions: 1" loose say 10mm gravel, slight tire ruts having one quarter to one half as much gravel, over a packed dirt road at a friends large acreage on way to mountains (under 1km of road to play with, and only a couple of near 90 degree corners - but it's only one lane wide, so that meant less room for error and being less able to push it.) I wasn't heading out today to test the car, just turned out that the opportunity presented itself.

Straight line acceleration: tested a few times - car pulled straight away, front and rears kicking up some stones, TC light on for first say 100+ yds, till I let up...car felt like it had about 200Hp of "asphalt road" acceleration/power..again, about what I'd expect from the TB SS in same conditions with it's much more familiar and common AWD system, and same size of tires (and in case anyone is wondering, yes the whole car has PPF, so I'm OK doing this, a bit, on gravel). Biggest point is that it did what I expected it to, and I never noticed there were two different motors or that the larger motor's rear end was more lose. But, TC was on the whole time I was on the throttle and it may have been managing all this. Even still it did it well, the car tracked true every time, even with me spinning the wheels. So that's good. It's not like I expect something to be horribly wrong with the car, if so, we would have heard about it from the guys who took delivery of their cars in January. It was bascially almost all straight road, so I didn't get to try steering the car with the tires spinning (i.e.: accelerating in a snowy/icy corner).

Cornering: The laneway only had two different corners and we only drove it once each way, so not a lot of data. Relative to the road conditions, I kept it at medium speed and also very smooth thru the corners (wife was in car and thanked me) and I never pushed enough to see if it was easy to drift in those conditions, or if it under or oversteered any corner, nor did I try to induce anything...and note that I didn't even push it enough to get the TC light on. So not a lot of usable data yet, except to again note that I never noticed the motors or TC doing anything funny, while at speeds faster than most Tesla drivers would probably take those corners.

It's not like people buy Teslas to rally them, (but I'm sure someone out there who is a much much better driver than me will do it eventually), I am more playing in the gravel only cause it's not winter yet, and I'm trying to extrapolate how the car will be in something that is much more important and common, snow and ice driving...Next time I'll find a safer spot to try to get the car closer to its limits and see how it is wrt being able to drift, over or understeer, and of course recovery, esp to see if it's similar to other more typical AWD cars/systems.

Biases: I'm purposefully not looking into how the AWD is integrated/works, till till my initial winter testing is done (Nov?). I know it's two motors and I know the Hp of each, and that's about it. And I've avoided reading any specifics about the few guys in Europe who posted their impressions on winter handling of the Tesla. I'm trying to avoid any influence or "suggestability" issues whereby I think I feel/experience what I expect to feel based on having analyzed the system mechanically, or based on what others have said. I seem to be succeptible to this more than I like, esp with wine and food tasting... ...basically, by not knowing about the AWD and TC, I'm trying to avoid thinking I taste strawberry, as I always do, right after "someone" tells me they tasted a hint of strawberry in the red - and ya, that happens waaay too often...it's almost impossible for me to match the wife in wine and food tasting.

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by B18C
This is why I'm one of the first on the list at Vancouver's service centre to get the Ludacrious upgrade (to my wife's ultimate frustration). I highly doubt I'll be able to tell the difference between 3.1 and 2.8 seconds but I'm still getting it because I want it.

Can I come? I think you'll need a backup driver.

[rage2]

Originally posted by sexualbanana
I got to drive it out of his garage the other day. Happiest 20 feet I've ever driven.

Don't get mad at me tomorrow morning...

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by rage2

Don't get mad at me tomorrow morning...

I had my chance and I blew it.

[supe]

Originally posted by killramos
Not even going to touch the continual touting of the only impressive statistic that the car has, its 0-60 time. If that's all a supercar is to you then .
[/B]

I find it best just to ignore this guy he mostly just trolls. But just to entertain, how about the fact that this car is likely the safest car on the road, you know the one that broke the roof crush equipment in its safety tests.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...sh-test-scale/

[Tearin]

Just made a post in Rage's P85D test drive thread about the regen braking, and two problems I can see with it that are safety concerns.

Rage's Thread

One new issue to offer up is the cupholders. Apparently only the first or second year of the Model S (they don't really have model years) had spring loaded cupholders, and I guess with the g forces EV cars can produce, it was puncturing a few peoples styrofoam coffee cups and making a mess (I know, first world problem).

So they got rid of the "cinchers" and went with a 2 7/8" bottom, 3 1/8" top open cup holder. On the weekend, I almost launched my fast food drink cornering and accelerating at a spirited pace, but not at max. It holds pop cans OK as they are shorter, but 591ml bottles, and tall Fast food containers, or tall coffee mugs are risky.

It's mentioned a few times in the Tesla forums that the fix is to source a couple of Trailblazer front cup holder rubber inserts for ten bucks, which actually works OK for 591ml bottles, but still not great for tall fast food containers. (odd that the only "cheap" fix thats doesn't look too ghetto that's out there is one I could actually test immediately, for free, as I have a Trailblazer). Other fixed are buying a new center console...d'oh. Brabus included one in their "hot off the presses" aftermarket accesories for the Tesla, for like 4500 Euro Heats, cools, and inductive charging of phones... Brabus Kit


This seems like it's not really something to whine about, but they produced a high Hp Sedan this time, not a Lotus shelled Roadster, so it needs more and better cupholders. This sentiment is repeated many times in the forums but I didn't realize it till I did my first fast food run in the car on the weekend. Granted other car companies have missed the mark wrt well designed cupholders, but a lot of car companies have it right it's not like they need to reinvent the wheel, nor are other design proprietary....the car is expensive enough already that it doesn't need to be stripped of features such as this for a "base" feel, so even for the two cupholders we do have, it should have better "jaws" to hold drinks, as this thing pulls 1g.

So the driving experience this weekend was almost needing a carpet shampoo, were it not for the quick hands of the s.o., catching the two drinks in the corner.