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    Default Tesla P85D Experiences

    We (hubby and I) bought a Tesla P85D (our wedding gift to each other) in the winter, asking for late spring delivery, and now have three summer months of commuting and 3 road trips under our belt, so we have a bit of insight we can offer up.

    We posted a pic in the "Post Your Latest Purchase" thread and got a handful of questions in the first couple of days, including a request for some driving impressions.

    Hubby has a lot of experience in cars, under the hood (there a hoist in my garage now!), designing (Aero Tech, Mec E, most of an EE degree) modifying, racing, etc, so, I asked if he'd spend the time to offer up his insight on the forum...he hasn't been on here in years (back when Rage had his 944T) so we'll both post under my account, as he said he'd answer some q's as they arise...and I can give my perspectives too.

    We'll get to q's as time allows over the next while, providing both summer and winter experiences with the car, city and trip experiences, etc, but we felt we needed to create/link to this thread tonight to offload the other thread from our long replies over there... (page 513/514 of that thread)
    Last edited by Tearin; 10-20-2015 at 02:30 PM.
    Originally posted by The_Rural_Juror

    You're cougarlicious.

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    I see one of these parked in the underground lot of my building at work right off Deerfoot. Is that you?
    Original Post NAZI Moderated


    Originally posted by r3cc0s
    Felon or Mistermeiner

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    Would like to hear of your experiences with winter driving conditions esp. in -30°C weather.

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    Originally posted by Weapon_R
    I see one of these parked in the underground lot of my building at work right off Deerfoot. Is that you?
    Depends which building. If it's the building I'm thinking of, it's not him.
    sig deleted by moderator, click here for info

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    We park DT.
    Last edited by Tearin; 08-29-2015 at 02:55 PM.
    Originally posted by The_Rural_Juror

    You're cougarlicious.

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    Originally posted by The_Rural_Juror

    You're cougarlicious.

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    Originally posted by ianmcc
    Would like to hear of your experiences with winter driving conditions esp. in -30°C weather.
    RAIN - I've driven it in torrential and average rain with the Michelin Pilot Sport PS 2, and so far the TC seems good and both engines seem to work together (the mechanical engineer in me was curious about how well they would be integrated - can't wait for testing that in snow and ice). I also had it hydroplaning in deeper troughs 2x now (learning the wet speed limits of the tires), and recovery was as expected.

    MISC - So that was "basically" straight line testing only of the cars systems and tires, as I haven't gone out of my way to push the cornering limits of the car on the road (nor should I - better info on the TC and motor integration will come in the winter, and also next year if I take it out autox'ing - after I see how the Michelins are wearing).

    On a trip to Golden thru Rogers Pass, it did as well as can be expected given its weight (and lets just say none of the other 3 folks in the car got any sleep in the pass (and there was very little traffic to worry about!) - the car really needs hail mary handles, even with the 2015 NextGen seats - which I highly recommend for anyone thinking of buying, if you do spirited driving), but, I was actually nowhere near the traction limit of the tires, so I can't say that was a great performance test either.

    I am sure I could find a bit of time in the next few weeks to do some loss of control testing at slower speeds of the g forces and TC and predictability of the car, and I have some other "street tire" driving data I can compare the Tesla to (I have "some" history with a thoroughly modified 944T, and a turbo'ed Miata - wet rubber, dry, winter studded, and R compounds are on rims for each car - various Toyo, Kumho, Hoosier, Michelin, Hankook, Nokian, Goodyear...quite a bit of history and will provide an OK comparison to help judge the Tesla handling a bit better - having said that, it is a bit of an apples to oranges situation between those cars vs a 4dr sedan, but i'll try - actually the 4750# Trailblazer SS with studded snowtires and Goodyear F1s will give some info to compare too...unlike the others, it has TC, is AWD, and weights the same (but CoG much higher), so maybe its not an orange like the other two cars, but its at least a pear as compared to the Tesla "apple" and hence possibly being able to do an A-B-C comparison and get good info. For sedans, I guess testing against an RS7 at 4450# would be the closest I can think of - or the E63 AMG at 4270#)...

    So all of the show and tell with the car thus far has been of the the "straight line speed" variety and 3.2sec launches (3.2 verified many times with a passenger, on regular asphalt, w Michelin PS 2's, and bidirectional testing), but, I will get in some light testing this fall pushing the tires to their adhesion (and my) limits. I probably should have done this already before driving it too much (4500km so far), so I know the limits and the emergency response and recovery characteristics of the tires and the car (incl its TC).

    WINTER - I also am curious how the range will be affected...cold temps necessitate both heating of the cabin and the batteries, and also the range drops due to a large increase in rolling resistance pushing snow. Having said that, I have Nokian Hakkapelitta 8's for the car, so that might affect the max adhesion somewhat compared to others who might be on all seasons or regular winters from Tesla, but I think with 5000 pounds and 690 Hp (and more of the 690 HP will be accessible past 30mph, once the Ludicrous upgrade is done...hopefully soon - store is almost here, lets hope the shop follows), I should still be able to get the tires past the point of adhesion, try some emergency maneuvering, get her to do same (very important imo, this is her first high Hp and first 5000# car) and report back on the cars recovery and TC, and how the two engines interact on ice and also in the snow.

    See the other thread for my comments on my summer range being down over 25%, and winter I expect will be about 40% down for me...ymmv...Based on three years of Model S's now, others report on -30C cold days, 35-40% down, -20C, 25-30% down. And note that its near impossible for most to hit the Tesla advertised maximum range, I'll never be able to do it, and a 20% on a 15-25C day drop in peak range is typical for most people who drive "at speed". 55mph = 300mi (480km) max range claimed to meet gov testing parameters, 70mph = 246mi (395km) per Tesla...22% range drop at 112kph average speed for the trip...

    tl/dr: 5000# 690Hp Sedan performs as expected given limited street testing thus far (and what can be done without having Race City). Drive faster, range drops, a lot. Some still curious about -30C wrt its range (tho it is purported to be down up to 40% per other Tesla owners. Most still curious about a P85 Dual Motor in the snow and ice - including yours truly who is looking forward to be able to test all of this at less than death defying speeds (i.e.: no track in Calgary), and the winter conditions will afford us that luxury at reasonable speeds. Lots more limit testing/feedback will be available without the high speeds and much more serious accident potential, and chewing up of the PS 2's, as would happen in the summer when forcing the car past tire adhesion limits.
    Last edited by Tearin; 09-04-2015 at 09:55 PM.
    Originally posted by The_Rural_Juror

    You're cougarlicious.

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    Can you give your impressions of road noise levels on the highway. Thanks.
    Last edited by CanmoreOrLess; 08-29-2015 at 06:32 PM.

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    Originally posted by CanmoreOrLess
    Can you give your impressions of road noise levels on the highway. Thanks.
    Interesting q. In all my others cars engine and exhaust noise beats out tires and wind, and of course, I consider it loud, but something we just deal with travelling at 110 kph. In the Telsa, its much much less noise....but that's a very quick answer. There's a few things to consider.

    I would have never noticed the small whine from the front motor unless the forum folks who had the P85+ mentioned it when they heard the motor in the P85D. Its very minor.

    Wind noise, its there, but again, in all ICE cars I have, the engine drones it out to the most part, so its kindof neat that you CAN hear it.

    Tires are not as loud as I thought they would be. With the radio off, you do hear them (and these are the summers), its not loud, its just that you aren't used to hearing them in a ICE car. So it takes some getting used to (one trip). But really, its SOOO much less noise than exhaust whine on the highway, its neat to actually be able to hear. And with the radio at 30-40%, you dont hear ANY of that.

    Open the sunroof, and of course, wind noise gets loud. Ditto windows, about the same as any car at speed, as you'd expect...the radio has to go up 3 notches to hear it again, but of course the wind noise is still there competing with the radio then...same as other cars we are used to hearing.

    Now, I bet with the studded snow tires on (which I can hear on all my other vehicles when I'm not accelerating or above 3500 rpm), I say, subjectively, those tires are considerably louder than normal ones (I never hear my summer tires on other ICE cars), so yes, the studded tires will be more noticeabale I figure. But again, still less peak dB than an engine would be. So it'll be just a different noise, and less of it...pick your poison: for an ICE car, its having louder exhaust drone at say 2800 rpm on the highway, vs any studded tire drone and wind noise dominating as the the background white noise in the Tesla. But I always have music on, and its one car where you can appreciate having 12 speakers and feel like its a good option to actually have paid for...I get to listen to music as a level that you can still easily talk over, to converse with you passengers.

    Scientifically speaking, I am sure people have tested the dB levels in the cars already at 110kph, and I bet its 25% as loud as a regular car. Subjectively, it was realy easy for the brain to ignore the tire and wind sound. I blocked it out quickly.

    The biggest thing I (and any passenger) misses is the engine sound on acceleration. I am sure soon, if not already, there will be an app that monitors the throttle, and mimics a Ferrari/Lambo note, etc using the stereo system, as I actually miss that the most. And the passengers also miss it as there is usually an exhaust sound warning that the driver has floored it, so they can brace....there is no warning that the, who knows?, 1000 ft lbs? of torque (don't quote me on that number) was just released by the driver, and so they are riding an unpredictable roller coaster without that first bit of noise feedback (tho in the Tesla, the exhaust noise feedback app would still be too slow to react, much like I am sure it would be too late for the passenger to brace in any 1000 ft lb torque car too - when they hear the exhaust, its already too late in that "car" too .
    Last edited by Tearin; 09-02-2015 at 12:57 PM.
    Originally posted by The_Rural_Juror

    You're cougarlicious.

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    Just looked it up (Edmunds)

    62.5dB at full throttle, 61.7 at 70 mph cruise (so most of that is wind noise)

    They didn't have info on the RS7 or E63 AMG (cars I will use a lot as comparison to the P85D), so lets look at one Edmunds did have, the BMW M4: 66.7dB at 70mph, and of course, much much louder 86.6dB at full throttle. Psychoacoustics says every 10dB is a doubling of the perceived sound volume, so its not quite half as quiet in the Tesla, but again, thats cause of the fact you are pushing a same sized car as the M4 thru the air at 70mph...but go up a hill and the Tesla is now over 5x quieter than the M4...the tires make much less noise than than the wind and exhaust when cruising in an M4, and the same will be said for the Tesla. A nice steady 61dB is very very easy to talk over, and the stereo doesn't need to be turned up very loud.

    Saying it another way, relatively, you will notice the tires more, as they don't have to compete with the engine. Thinking out loud (and not doing any math) you'd have to look at what contributes what and add the log scales appropriately. In the M4 maybe the tires are 50dB, wind 57 and exhaust 56, summing to a number in the mid 60's (didn't do the math). In the Tesla assume the same 50dB for the tires, wind 55dB (smoother car), and maybe motor 40dB (which is negligible to the calc at log 10 base). The total SPL is lower by over 50% in the Tesla, so you notice the tires more (for a while, till you get used to it). And I don't find the summer tires a drone type noise at all, and I've had droning noise at certain rpms before with some exhaust systems in SUV cabins at cruise...

    ...but, I reserve the right to throw out all calcs when those winter tires are on there, even if they are say 55dB of contribution and hence I expect more noticeable (but should still be less than the old engine noise was)...but, it'll be the subjective quality of that sound that might get to me (metallic droning?). Which isn't a problem on summer tires, but I know the pitch of Hak winter studded tires, so time will tell.

    Another q that we can't answer till the winter (and not a lot posted in the forums about it - but I went ahead anyways and got the Hak 8's)
    Last edited by Tearin; 08-29-2015 at 08:12 PM.
    Originally posted by The_Rural_Juror

    You're cougarlicious.

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    n/m

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    Originally posted by Tearin
    Just looked it up (Edmunds)

    62.5dB at full throttle, 61.7 at 70 mph cruise (so most of that is wind noise)

    They didn't have info on the RS7 or E63 AMG (cars I will use a lot as comparison to the P85D), so lets look at one Edmunds did have, the BMW M4: 66.7dB at 70mph, and of course, much much louder 86.6dB at full throttle. Psychoacoustics says every 10dB is a doubling of the perceived sound volume, so its not quite half as quiet in the Tesla, but again, thats cause of the fact you are pushing a same sized car as the M4 thru the air at 70mph...but go up a hill and the Tesla is now over 5x quieter than the M4...
    To be fair, you're comparing ICE cars that are designed to be as loud as legally possible at WOT, so not really a fair comparison there. In the M4's case, 1/2 that noise is blasting from the speakers.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
    I have gone above and beyond what I should rightfully have to do to protect my good name

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    True Dat!
    Originally posted by The_Rural_Juror

    You're cougarlicious.

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    Ooooh so that's what my neighbours car is! Keep walking by it and forget to look, sharp car!

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    NOISE, AGAIN - Driving the car today, I realized one more thing that might be worth mentioning about road noise on the highway.

    Due to less background noise, even at crusing speeds, the Tesla is soooo much better on handsfree bluetooth (was tested on an Apple 5S, HTC One, and work BB's) on the phone, the other person always hears me and I always hear the other person, no feedback either...ditto for NAV commands...they come thru so much easier without having to turn the volume up so high that it almost hurts (i.e.: the TB SS - every day on the commute, climbing out of the river valley by Seton makes us stop all phone convos for a minute, unless the stereo or phone is cranked...having to shout over the engine noise, or even not able to hear the other person and gettng distracted, asking them to speak up, etc...really isn't ideal, esp when you are talking on the work cell..so, I guess I'm suggesting that its just easier to sound professional, with less interruptions, and less raising of voices, less distraction, etc, while driving the Tesla...

    ...actually, also, I bet I am more focused on the road because I am not focused on the lousy bluetooth, whether talking to work, or friends...and please, no comments about drivers being distracted while on a quality handfree call, unless you think talking to your car passengers should be banned too....we've been doing that for years. With handfree dialing, excellent phone integration, and the low noise of the Tesla at all times, it now is finally just as easy as talking to someone in the car right beside you.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying its "a lot" safer than ICE cars while talking on handsfree, its more of an ancillary benefit of the EV car...I can say for sure I am less focused on the car noise affecting the call, raising my voice, asking the reciprocal, etc..."can you hear me now?" ...and so I'm more focused on driving, and am able to speak as effortlessless as if I was talking to a passenger...its only a minor issue/improvement wrt my distraction level in an ICE car on handsfree...and statistically probably won't prevent an accident for me over my driving life, but that one time someone cuts you off, a deer jumps out, you wander between lanes, etc, while you are on an important call and (yes, we all should pull over for those calls, sure, yet thats sooo much fun to try and do while on Deerfoot, you have to go quite a ways to pull off the highway and its feeders to reach a safe place to take an important phone call - very very few people do it, so, lets assume that is the typical situation, as it is legal to do so as long as you aren't deemed distracted - again, its legal to talk to your passenger, so lets see if on calls an EV can reduce distraction levels, the answer is yes) so, you're possibly distracted trying to turn up the volume on the phone (or the stereo), or raising your voice enough to talk over the engine and maybe getting distracted, or maybe your focused more on trying to figure out what the heck your boss was saying vs driving, as you pulled away from the light, adding to stress levels, distraction, etc, etc, albeit its a small chance, it may happen to someone, at some time, but its minor, and we "should" be able to adjust volumes without crashing a car, so this isn't significant, but I really haven't had to adjust the volume or fiddle with a single call in the car since we got it (and I've been doing process safety and risk engineering for the oil sands industry for many many years now, so I judge things this way, both at and away from work - poor wife - but, she always seems to gravitate to engineers - for good or bad - there a whole other thread that I am sure someone has written about in the past on Beyond...wrt dating engineers). So, its not THE reason to get an EV, but its a nice small benefit to offset only a minor amount of the EV's downsides (such as range). To me, the reason is much more for access to a full 690Hp (post Ludicrous upgrade). For my wife, the autopilot features (which many other high end cars also have, the RS7 is even better imo), and the potential new features that may come with the Tesla autopilot in the next year...but they should have a HUD, and an IR or Radar...really really really missed the boat there...could be the biggest mistake they made with the 2015 Autopilot. And MAYBE it will be retrofittable for those of us who have the autopilot now, if the Model S gets it in the future, but I doubt it.

    So, getting back to the noise levels, its more that the person on the other end of the phone can't tell whether I'm driving to or from work, or sitting at home working on the computer. It sounds that good, but this also could be the soundproofing and stereo system in a Tesla too. I can't say a Leaf with its different body shape and wind noise, and its lower price point (hence, likely lesser sound deadening and lower end stereo?) won't have a slightly worse experience than us using handsfree...but for all pure EV, there's still no engine noise to compete with, whether accelerating away from red lights, climbing hills etc, all the things that I find are annoying when on handfree in other cars...

    And again, all bets are off once I put the winter studs on the car; I am sure the stereo will need to go up a notch at cruising speed, which then I suspect will just be starting to be at the same volume as regular conversation, so having to put the stereo and noise up another notch might mean this isn't quite as perfect as it has been using the phone/NAV in the summer. But personally, I still will chose the studs at the expense of some phone performance any day.

    tl/dr: Handfree phone and NAV is about a good as it can get in a Tesla using our phones, no engine noise to interfere with convos when accelerating as lights turn green, climbing hills,etc, no feedback loop (volumes are low)...summary: phone calls are almost as seamless as turning to your passenger and having a convo with them.
    Last edited by Tearin; 09-05-2015 at 04:23 PM.
    Originally posted by The_Rural_Juror

    You're cougarlicious.

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    Originally posted by Weapon_R
    I see one of these parked in the underground lot of my building at work right off Deerfoot. Is that you?

    That would be me most likely
    sig deleted by moderator, click here for info

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    Originally posted by B18C



    That would be me most likely
    Figured it was! Beautiful car, cogratulations.
    Original Post NAZI Moderated


    Originally posted by r3cc0s
    Felon or Mistermeiner

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    Are you gonna get one of those robot dildo charger things?


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    Originally posted by birdman86
    Are you gonna get one of those robot dildo charger things?

    I saw that last month, yep, figured, geez, that can't be cheap. I suspect it was done more to be gimmicky than practical. But, they do have the system where you just step out of your car outside the garage, and it self parks ("soon" to be activated/allowed while on private property). I guess that would be when this actually might be usable. I've only got 8' doors on the garage (don't even get me started about that - missed the building of the wife's house by only 2 years when we started dating, and ya, I would have put in 9' doors), AND the Tesla is a hugely wide car (to fit 8000 batteries in it), so the mirrors clear the rubber trim on the garage by only about 5-10cm on each side, so I will for sure use the self park feature once that's activated, but that robot plug has got to be north of a thousand bucks, so, I can't see me buying it.

    We have the Tesla 100 Amp wall charger and I installed our unit on the drivers rear, where the plug is, and its cord is long enough that it can reach to the stalls on either side of the main parking spot, in case we shuffle parking around.

    Filling up is as expected: Instead of every week filling up for 5 minutes at the gas station, sun or snow, I just pull into the garage, step out of the car, and plug it in each night. It takes 20-30 seconds, and as long as its on the correct side, its like 5 steps from the drivers door to the back wall of the garage and its done. So the robot really doesn't have that much extra appeal. It's not having to gas up in the winter thats a nice bonus.

    If they offer it to us cheap (<$1K - and I say not very likely, even for current owners who might get a "discount"), and IF the self park feature gets activated and works, then maybe...but I already spent to get the 100A charger, so it'll probably mean having to try to sell that unit, as I am sure this will be integrated with a new/different 100Amp charger, and probably like a $3-5K hit as it might need mods at the car side too (I think the 100Amp charger was already like $750 as an option, so unless we can sell ours for 500 used (ha) and the new one is under 1K (ha), then I wont upgrade...even if there is a good payback as we intend to keep the car for 10+ years.
    Last edited by Tearin; 09-05-2015 at 04:14 PM.
    Originally posted by The_Rural_Juror

    You're cougarlicious.

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    Originally posted by B18C



    That would be me most likely
    I got to drive it out of his garage the other day. Happiest 20 feet I've ever driven.
    sig deleted by moderator, click here for info

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