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Thread: Let's talk WINTER tires 2015/16

  1. #261
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    The braking distance of tires vary greatly just from different types of rubber. It stands to reason that if you put metal studs protruding out of the contact patch that dig into ice, that they will also interfere with the amount of grip (on a flat solid unforgiving surface) that the rubber has by interfering with the contact patch. There are studies showing this and it was long-established knowledge a very long time ago. Everyone understands that with sand on ice in the dead of winter, you stop better. And everyone understands that with sand on a road in the middle of summer, you stop worse. Same basic idea with studs. Old government report:

    http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/research/rep...orts/551.1.pdf
    However, the advent of the new studless tires has diminished the marginal benefit, and recent studies suggest that the infrequent, narrow range of conditions necessary for benefit from studded tires may not outweigh their detrimental effect on traction in dry or wet conditions on certain pavement types.


    The butt dyno is generally a terrible way to evaluate a tire for stopping distances too so just because you can't feel the difference doesn't mean there isn't a difference. The guy with icebears thinks they were awesome, but in reality they are shit, and it is well known around the world:

    http://tires.about.com/od/buyers_gui...Snow-Tires.htm
    I personally am not a fan of Hankook in general, but their winter tire appears to be particularly awful. Hankook's Icebear fails American snow and ice tests, and most European testers won't even try them. The Canadian Automobile Protection Association says they are “not optimized for snow and ice”, which I assume is a polite Canadian term for “Yuck!”

    The Fins are one that labeled them as not suitable for winter conditions from what I remember. I think the norwegians banned them for winter use too, as they have mandatory winter tire laws for pretty much anything north of olso... from what I remember...
    Last edited by Zhao Kan; 11-04-2015 at 09:48 AM.

  2. #262
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    I think this is the best I could find online as far as testing studded vs non studded braking performance.

    Dry Road Braking with ABS

    This test measured the distance to stop from 50mph on a dry asphalt surface, using the vehicle's Antilock Brake System to control wheel lock up.

    Percent Versus Reference

    General Altimax Arctic 100.0%
    General Altimax Arctic Studded 94.8%
    Firestone Winterforce 100.1%
    Pirelli Winter Carving Edge 104.2%

    Wet Road Braking with ABS

    This test measured the distance to stop from 50mph on a wet asphalt surface, using the vehicle's Antilock Brake System to control wheel lock up.

    Percent Versus Reference

    General Altimax Arctic 100.0%
    General Altimax Arctic Studded 95.3%
    Firestone Winterforce 99.5%
    Pirelli Winter Carving Edge 95.2%


    Link

  3. #263
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    I have studded KW22's on the Fit and I notice the ABS kicks in earlier on dry/wet roads. This is compared to my regular all season tires so can't say for sure if it's due to the studs or just the softer winter tires.

  4. #264
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    I just got a set of Michelin Pilot Alpin pa4's on my GTI and I can barely believe they are winters. They are smooth and grippy on dry and icy roads.


  5. #265
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    Originally posted by max_boost


    Can anyone else comment on this? ( I believe you Zhao Kan) I just don't recall anyone else saying something similar all these years on Beyond. All I read is how great it's on ice and noisy on the dry roads but never anything about worse stopping or lack of grip on dry roads.
    It somewhat be like wearing cleats vs regular shoes. I don't think its a crazy lack of grip but you'd definitely see a drop in dry road performance. On smooth concrete it's a different story.

    There are also different lengths of studs that can be installed. Unless there is a industry standard that everyone uses?


    Originally posted by kvg
    I just got a set of Michelin Pilot Alpin pa4's on my GTI and I can barely believe they are winters. They are smooth and grippy on dry and icy roads.
    That's the trade off with performance winters. When it get's even colder and more icy you'll find they don't grip as well as regular non studded winters.
    sig deleted by moderator, click here for info

  6. #266
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    I just picked up a set of Altimax Arctic (non-studded). Can't wait for some more snow and see how it performs.

    Originally posted by Aleks
    I think this is the best I could find online as far as testing studded vs non studded braking performance.

    Dry Road Braking with ABS

    This test measured the distance to stop from 50mph on a dry asphalt surface, using the vehicle's Antilock Brake System to control wheel lock up.

    Percent Versus Reference

    General Altimax Arctic 100.0%
    General Altimax Arctic Studded 94.8%
    Firestone Winterforce 100.1%
    Pirelli Winter Carving Edge 104.2%

    Wet Road Braking with ABS

    This test measured the distance to stop from 50mph on a wet asphalt surface, using the vehicle's Antilock Brake System to control wheel lock up.

    Percent Versus Reference

    General Altimax Arctic 100.0%
    General Altimax Arctic Studded 95.3%
    Firestone Winterforce 99.5%
    Pirelli Winter Carving Edge 95.2%


    Link

  7. #267
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    Originally posted by ?????



    That's the trade off with performance winters. When it get's even colder and more icy you'll find they don't grip as well as regular non studded winters.
    There are trade offs with everything, but I would prefer to enjoy my car most of the winter compared with the winters I just replaced that were rough and handled like garbage.

  8. #268
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    ^^^

    True especially GTi fun car to zip around in. Just gotta be more careful when the snow piles up however still 10x better than those with all seasons.

  9. #269
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    Holy shet I had the misfortune of trying out my all seasons on the Tacoma on snow last night. Studded winters are coming asap.

  10. #270
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    This was a good read....especially the posts directly related to the OP's ask.

    I've written a handful of tire reviews for online publications (mostly 4x4 related), but did a write up for the Goodyear's that came with my 2GFusion (Winter package).

    http://www.2gfusions.net/showthread.php?tid=121 (hope you enjoy, and take some time to read...Admins, edit/let me know if cross posting to another forum is breaking policy)



    and with snow proof:


    Note with this design, I felt that deep snow was a strong spot for the Ultragrip, and on ploughed but icy roads, these were 'meh'.


    As previously stated: IMO, data is extremely difficult to qualify, and is subjective.
    Vehicle, type of tire, conditions etc.
    What works great on my AWD (2014 Fusion) may be 'OK' on your FWD with (GTI for example).
    Last edited by RedApe; 11-06-2015 at 09:00 AM.
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  11. #271
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    I'm not sure if this is discussed in the thread, but would it be better to use alum. rims over steel for weight savings? I sort of got a new car on Saturday (waiting two weeks for funds) and I need to get winters for it. And if steel, is it worth downsizing by 1"?

    Likely going with Xi3s.

  12. #272
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    Originally posted by duaner
    I'm not sure if this is discussed in the thread, but would it be better to use alum. rims over steel for weight savings? I sort of got a new car on Saturday (waiting two weeks for funds) and I need to get winters for it. And if steel, is it worth downsizing by 1&quot;?

    Likely going with Xi3s.
    I honestly wouldn't be even a little bit concerned about the weight of rims for my winters. Get a set of wheels you won't hate looking at 6 months a year (probably not steelies). Downsize for sure, whether steel or alloys as long as it'll clear your brakes and you can be close to your originally overall diameter.

  13. #273
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    Are the tire pressures printed on the door jamb good for all tires for that vehicle?
    I did -1 sizing on winters, and at the recommended pressure, the tires "LOOK" flatter. Bigger bulge on the sides at the bottom.

    Federal Himalaya WS2

  14. #274
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    Those would be for the factory tires. I would fill.your winters to the psi level indicated on the side of the tire itself.

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    ...
    Last edited by Sugarphreak; 08-15-2019 at 01:58 PM.

  16. #276
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    What's tire wear like on the Nokians? I have never used a set before. My blizzaks WS or DMV tires will last MAX 4 seasons lol Hankook iPike I can stretch it up to 6 seasons

  17. #277
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    Originally posted by max_boost
    What's tire wear like on the Nokians? I have never used a set before. My blizzaks WS or DMV tires will last MAX 4 seasons lol Hankook iPike I can stretch it up to 6 seasons
    It just needs to last the duration of a lease, which they all do haha.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
    I have gone above and beyond what I should rightfully have to do to protect my good name

  18. #278
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    Originally posted by max_boost
    What's tire wear like on the Nokians? I have never used a set before. My blizzaks WS or DMV tires will last MAX 4 seasons lol Hankook iPike I can stretch it up to 6 seasons
    Max, I am on my 4th season with hakka 7. Studs are still there, worn but has some left. Tread life indicator shows 8-6-4. So roughly 60 percent still.
    Submaker.Illest.

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