Quantcast
VW's Cheated EPA test Automaker faces $18B in fines. - Page 19 - Beyond.ca - Car Forums
Page 19 of 19 FirstFirst ... 9 18 19
Results 361 to 376 of 376

Thread: VW's Cheated EPA test Automaker faces $18B in fines.

  1. #361
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Calgary
    My Ride
    79 Country Squire 95 Deville 09 Jeep JK
    Posts
    796
    Rep Power
    26

    Default

    Now MB has been caught with a defeat device...

    U.S. investigators have found what could be illegal software modifications on Mercedes-Benz diesels intended to help the vehicles pass emissions testing. An engine management function called Slipguard recognized whether the car was undergoing testing procedures while another, called Bit 15, halted emissions cleaning after roughly 16 miles of driving. Together, the two pieces of software may amount to what is known within the industry as a “defeat device.”
    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...-diesel-probe/

  2. #362
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    2,977
    Rep Power
    22

    Default

    So is it getting easier to list automobile manufacturers that haven't been caught as opposed to those that have?
    Will fuck off, again.

  3. #363
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Lotus Land
    My Ride
    G37X
    Posts
    3,088
    Rep Power
    21

    Default

    My mom finally bought something decent and got into a 2015 TDI hatchback 6 speed. How do I know if any emissions recall related work has been done?
    She bought it from a VW dealer so I'm assuming that's been taken care of. She's enjoying the torque!

  4. #364
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Homeless
    My Ride
    Blue Dabadee
    Posts
    9,597
    Rep Power
    100

    Default

    I thought it was established that all the Germans were doing this in their diesels?

    They all tested 50 odd times higher on the road than on the bench.

    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
    Originally posted by Toma
    fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yolobimmer View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

  5. #365
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    My Ride
    Bicycle
    Posts
    9,271
    Rep Power
    49

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by speedog View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    So is it getting easier to list automobile manufacturers that haven't been caught as opposed to those that have?
    Everyone is cheating.

    Europeans are hiding behind the "save the engine" provision. Americans are hiding behind truck can pollute provision.

    It's just a big news in America because US government see a pay day against foreign manufacturers.

    Just watch Dirty Money on Netflix.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallowed_point View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    My mom finally bought something decent and got into a 2015 TDI hatchback 6 speed. How do I know if any emissions recall related work has been done?
    She bought it from a VW dealer so I'm assuming that's been taken care of. She's enjoying the torque!
    Not authority on subject but I heard fuel economy drops quite a bit on fixed cars. 900km/tank originally and down to 600km/tank after the fix.

    The modification stipulates an immediate software update to eliminate the "defeat device" software in the 2015 models. Such devices have allowed hundreds of thousands of VW Group diesels from the 2009-16 model years to emit nitrogen oxide, a smog-forming pollutant, at illegal levels on the road while thwarting emissions tests.

    To complete the fix, Gen 3 vehicles will need a second phase of updates in about a year that includes additional software updates plus some new hardware: a diesel particulate filter, diesel oxidation catalyst and a nitrogen-oxide catalyst. But dealers can sell the cars with just the initial software update, Bloomberg News reports.
    So phase 1 fix is removing defeat device. So your TDI will pollute all the time. Everyone say their car is actually better after phase 1 fix.

    I have not find anything concrete about phase 2 fix yet. I assume the guy bitches about the mileage on FB got phase 2 fix on his. Phase 2 fix is expected start in Q1/Q2 2018.
    Last edited by Xtrema; 02-20-2018 at 10:31 AM.

  6. #366
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    YYC
    My Ride
    1 x E Class Benz
    Posts
    23,598
    Rep Power
    101

    Default

    There's cheating, then there's VW cheating. The whole thing has to do with EPA allowing "defeat devices" and EPA changing the goalposts after VW cheated. As long as you explain the defeat device and why it's there, such as turning it off when coolant temps gets too hot to save the engine, EPA allows this. VW's test mode defeat device was a whole different matter in that it was never disclosed in the first place.

    Now, EPA is rewriting the rules on what's allowed for defeat devices, and all the other manufacturers are slowly falling foul of the regulation changes. In some cases (GM) they're doing this retroactively saying what was deemed OK is now not OK, which is leading to consumer class action lawsuits. Fiat Chrysler's case has to do with devices that are borderline not classified by EPA's definition as defeat devices, which is now being contested. Mercedes-Benz? Not sure, too soon to speculate till they release more info on the latest ones. The previous consumer class action lawsuits was based on declared and legal defeat devices in the eyes of the EPA.

    Anyways, long story short, EPA is creating this whole new mess of everyone cheating with vague rules and retroactive rule changes.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
    I have gone above and beyond what I should rightfully have to do to protect my good name

  7. #367
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Not Aspen
    My Ride
    Two from Freemont
    Posts
    9,807
    Rep Power
    45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rage2 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Anyways, long story short, EPA is creating this whole new mess of everyone cheating with vague rules and retroactive rule changes.
    The irony in all this is that Trump is well on his way to getting rid of the EPA regulations on emissions. He is trying to repeal Obama legislation on "Glider Trucks."

    https://www.vox.com/energy-and-envir...hole-trump-epa

  8. #368
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Upstairs
    My Ride
    Natural Gas.
    Posts
    13,332
    Rep Power
    100

    Default

    Clear and simple regulations on emissions make a lot of sense and industry would absolutely meet them. The mess that exist now is pretty much built to encourage gaming the system, which of course every company has been dong.

    It's like our insanely complex tax laws, which encourage complex strategies to reduce taxes paid by wealthy individuals. Hardly surprising that people use these "loopholes" when there are huge financial incentives to do so.
    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    You realize you are talking to the guy who made his own furniture out of salad bowls right?

  9. #369
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Not Aspen
    My Ride
    Two from Freemont
    Posts
    9,807
    Rep Power
    45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Clear and simple regulations on emissions make a lot of sense and industry would absolutely meet them. The mess that exist now is pretty much built to encourage gaming the system, which of course every company has been dong.

    It's like our insanely complex tax laws, which encourage complex strategies to reduce taxes paid by wealthy individuals. Hardly surprising that people use these "loopholes" when there are huge financial incentives to do so.
    Our tax laws are relatively simple compared to the US. It's why the rich in the US get richer at a faster rate.

  10. #370
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Upstairs
    My Ride
    Natural Gas.
    Posts
    13,332
    Rep Power
    100

    Default

    That's like saying edmonton is warmer in the winter than fort mcmurray. True but not meaningful. The Canadian tax code is not simple.

    A truly simple individual taxation system would allow an individual to complete their taxes in under an hour and if completed on paper would require no more than five pages.

    we also wouldn't require all these contrived tax advantaged savings mechanisms like TFSA, RRSP, RESP, RDSP etc, or different treatment of Dividends, real estate earnings etc.
    Last edited by ExtraSlow; 02-20-2018 at 11:48 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    You realize you are talking to the guy who made his own furniture out of salad bowls right?

  11. #371
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Red Deer, Alberta
    My Ride
    1995 WRX STi
    Posts
    1,560
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    A truly simple individual taxation system would allow an individual to complete their taxes in under an hour and if completed on paper would require no more than five pages.
    First year filing taxes and dealing with other things as a business owner here They really do not like new small businesses, everything is choked down in red tape and so many little things to nickle and dime you.

  12. #372
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    YYC
    My Ride
    1 x E Class Benz
    Posts
    23,598
    Rep Power
    101

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Clear and simple regulations on emissions make a lot of sense and industry would absolutely meet them.
    It's pretty clear that manufacturers can not meet the regulations without approved defeat devices without affecting performance and reliably. The question is, is this a engineering limit that's been reached? Or is it a financial limitation because the investment outweighs the small diesel market?
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
    I have gone above and beyond what I should rightfully have to do to protect my good name

  13. #373
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Calgary
    My Ride
    Grimace
    Posts
    6,815
    Rep Power
    26

    Default

    With all the heat on VW, thought this was pretty funny
    https://www.autoblog.com/2018/02/15/...luting-diesel/
    A newly expanded federal loophole is fueling the growth of semi trucks retrofitted with rebuilt, older engines that produce diesel emissions far greater than the combined emissions of all Volkswagen diesels equipped with fraudulent emissions controls, a New York Times investigation shows.

    The trucks, which use new truck bodies from Peterbilt, Freightliner and other manufacturers mated to rebuilt engines exempt from pollution standards, are known as "gliders." They're cheaper than semis equipped with modern, emissions-compliant engines, may get higher fuel economy and are less expensive to repair and maintain. But they emit toxins and tiny dust and soot particles blamed for causing asthma, lung cancer and other diseases. And their ranks are growing, with about 10,000 sold in 2015, the last year for which data are available, up from fewer than 1,000 in 2010.

    An analysis by staff members at the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency found that gliders emitted nitrogen oxide levels during highway driving that were 43 times as high as those from trucks with modern emissions-control systems. The EPA staff estimated that one year's worth of glider sales released 13 times as much of the pollutant as all VW diesels equipped with the emissions-cheating software — and that was scandal that resulted in a criminal case against the company and more than $4 billion in fines.

    The trucks pollute so heavily, in fact, that in stop-and-go traffic, filters clogged with particulate matter forced testing equipment to shut down.


    The Obama administration had proposed to eliminate the loophole by enacting a stricter diesel emissions rule that was scheduled to take effect last month. But Scott Pruitt, the Trump administration's head of the EPA, granted an exemption to the rule, thanks in part to: a controversial study by Tennessee Technological University that exonerated glider emissions; U.S. Rep. Diane Black, a Republican who is running to be the state's governor; and the financial support of the Fitzgerald family, which operates several dealerships selling the rebuilt semi trucks — Fitzgerald business entities, executives and family members have contributed at least $225,000 to Black's campaign. Fitzgerald also paid for that Tennessee Tech study, which is under internal investigation by the university.

    Pruitt is also proposing to repeal the cap limiting the number of gliders that can be sold each year.

  14. #374
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    2,977
    Rep Power
    22

    Default

    Humans, we really go out of our way to screw ourselves. Average Joe and Jill are doing what they can to help reduce their environmental footprint through LED lighting replacements, HE appliances, better home windows and such and yet are often unknowingly shooting themselves in the foot at the same time because other humans opt to sell them vehicles that don't do what they are advertised to do.
    Will fuck off, again.

  15. #375
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Not Aspen
    My Ride
    Two from Freemont
    Posts
    9,807
    Rep Power
    45

    Default

    Another irony is that modern cars are starting to be made with exotic materials such as Aluminium and Carbon Fiber.

    The environmental footprint of these materials is terrible. Strip mining of Bauxite for Aluminium. Carbon is made from guess what? Oil.

    So in the effort to save fuel and emissions, we are creating emissions in an "unseen" way. Those massive mining dump trucks don't burn diesel, do they? haha

  16. #376
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Calgary
    My Ride
    Z
    Posts
    491
    Rep Power
    22

    Default

    Are they? Or do they have those things to save money on their utilities. People aren't as altruistic as you think
    Z32 TT
    1996 Integra - winter beater with studs - RIP (deer)
    2002 WRX - to be sold
    2010 sti - winter

Page 19 of 19 FirstFirst ... 9 18 19

Similar Threads

  1. EPA says "No" to Mustang

    By SkiBum5.0 in forum General Car/Bike Talk
    Replies: 13
    Latest Threads: 02-16-2016, 12:10 PM
  2. Ford's C-MAX Energi Receives 620-Mile EPA-Rated Driving Range

    By Gripenfelter in forum Automotive News
    Replies: 5
    Latest Threads: 10-24-2012, 12:15 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •