UNODC in talks to decriminalise all drugs world wide.

[ZenOps]

I will admit to being curious about some designer drugs like Vicadin. Although arguably, even though OTC aspirins are legal, I don't use them at all - Even when I have a headache.

Seriously though, the expense and to a certain degree - the illegality is a deterrent. I'd much rather spend $50 on a good videogame than go on a one night bender on drug of choice. I guess it comes down to what a person enjoys more and what they are willing to spend their time and effort on.

[Unknown303]

I would do meth every day if it was legal.

[Robin Goodfellow]

Originally posted by JordanEG6

People who resort to drugs like Meth, Cocaine, Heroine etc are going to do so whether it's legal or not. It's not a matter of legality, it's a matter of choice. People who do want to do it, will do it.

What about accessibility?

Regardless of legality, some folks never give much though to doing a particular drug until it's made accessible to them.

Would legality not increase accessibility?

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow
Regardless of legality, some folks never give much though to doing a particular drug until it's made accessible to them.

Is this opinion or, verifiable fact?

[JordanEG6]

Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow


What about accessibility?

Regardless of legality, some folks never give much though to doing a particular drug until it's made accessible to them.

Would legality not increase accessibility?

Not necessarily. Just because it is legal, does not equal readily accessible. Assuming from a legalization/regulation stand point, I'd imagine you'd have to jump through a few hurdles to get your drugs (prescription, ID, prior usage check etc.). This is under the assumption that individuals may be enticed to try a drug based on legality and accessibility. Again, forbidden fruit theory.

If it were simply decriminalized without regulation, that might be a different story altogether.

[frizzlefry]

I'll admit that I found LSD to be freaking amazing when I was in high school. If it were legal I wouldn't do it but simply because I don't have 16 hours to spare to be high. You need to plan ahead for that shit. But if I were camping...

[BigMass]

personally I believe you need regulations. However, if you wait until regulations are in place to legalize, then it will never happen. Politicians will always find a way to talk about how difficult and problematic regulations are and all the roadblocks and how we deal with it and handle it. They'll talk about it for 10000 years before anything happens. That's why you need to legalize first. Then in about 6 months the government will have sweeping and proper regulations in place. The order important or it will never happen. Without motivation, there is no action. Right now there is zero motivation for any government to legalize anything. This IMO shouldn't be in the hands of government, but the supreme court and made a human rights issue.

[Unknown303]

So has anyone bothered to bring up the fact that we don't all currently smoke tobacco. It's pretty accessible, it's addictive and really fucking bad for you. But for some strange reason we're not all smoking.. like we have a choice or something...

[BigMass]

Originally posted by Unknown303
So has anyone bothered to bring up the fact that we don't all currently smoke tobacco. It's pretty accessible, it's addictive and really fucking bad for you. But for some strange reason we're not all smoking.. like we have a choice or something...

if you make meth legal, every man woman and child will be on meth within 24 hours. IDK about you but I don't touch it because it's illegal, but if it was ever legal, WATCH OUT WORLD!!!!!. I'd be fucked up on that shit 24-7!!!***

*** according to the conservatives ***

[frizzlefry]

Originally posted by Unknown303
So has anyone bothered to bring up the fact that we don't all currently smoke tobacco. It's pretty accessible, it's addictive and really fucking bad for you. But for some strange reason we're not all smoking.. like we have a choice or something...

Lots of people smoke, most people drink, prescription meds are WAY over prescribed (at least in the states).

We are a culture of medication. A culture of ingesting shit which alters our body chemistry. Making more medications available and assuming people won't take them is rather silly.

There are two definitions floating around in this debate and really a lot of arguments going around without clear definition.

Decriminalization of possession. My choice, helps reduce use, removes the cost associated with unnecessarily incarcerating people.

And legalization. Tax it, all legal, make some revenue and people have choice. Under this idea would Oxy be no longer a prescription medication? It's a narcotic. Would anti-depressants be available to anybody who wants them? Lithium over the counter for the housewife who had a bad day? Is there are medical benefit to PCP? Is that prescription only or available over the counter while Oxy is a doctor prescribed medication?

If the argument for 100% legalization is in furtherance of choice than shouldn't we all just be able to chose whatever drug we want whenever we want? No more pharmacists? And if legalization folks want pharmacists and believe in doctor prescribed medications, prescribed by a person who knows what they are doing, then they are picking some drugs we can chose to take over others. Supporting the idea they are against. IMO in this case pro legalization is not pro-choice but rather "girls just wanna have fun".

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by frizzlefry

IMO in this case pro legalization is not pro-choice but rather "girls just wanna have fun".

IMO

In this case...

blah, blah blah........

Let the people die with own hands.]

Get rid of the weak and dying.

[Robin Goodfellow]

Originally posted by Unknown303
So has anyone bothered to bring up the fact that we don't all currently smoke tobacco. It's pretty accessible, it's addictive and really fucking bad for you. But for some strange reason we're not all smoking.. like we have a choice or something...

Your email doesn't acknowledge the varying degrees of addictiveness.

Smoking takes some time to get its hooks into you. Some drugs get their hooks in early, and get them in deep.

Someone I know did heroin once, and for the entire next year, it was the first thing he thought of when he woke up every morning.

It's hard to imagine the same thing resulting from smoking a single, or even a pack, of cigarettes.

[FixedGear]

The only drugs i use are caffeine, alcohol, and (very occasionally) nicotene. But i still think they should all be legalized. 100% legal - all drugs.

[frizzlefry]

Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow


Your email doesn't acknowledge the varying degrees of addictiveness.

Smoking takes some time to get its hooks into you. Some drugs get their hooks in early, and get them in deep.

Someone I know did heroin once, and for the entire next year, it was the first thing he thought of when he woke up every morning.

It's hard to imagine the same thing resulting from smoking a single, or even a pack, of cigarettes.

Posted this on the opening a pot store thread. This is just in regards to opiods. There are 35 classes of it, things you learn when being a doctor and when you take courses in pharm. My wife did a total of a year and half learning this shit to give it to ANIAMLS. In the administration of opiods the primary goal is to prevent addiction, and my wife had to learn it because the animal cannot talk but a miscalculation will result the animal being addicted, suffering physical withdrawal during treatment and may die. Addiction is a physical issue that complicates recovery.

So to Robin's point. The reason his buddy thought of nothing but heroin when he woke up is because his dealer was not a fucking doctor that had not tailored his pain management to him. People or animals you use this chart: Link

Almost all choices will give a high recreationally and all will elevate pain. But the trained part comes into play in terms of addiction. The choice in opioid is primarily based on the likelihood of dependency. The least likely to induce dependency wins. And they want to know everything, alcohol use, smoking, tendency to gamble. It's a whole profile.

My wife had to memorize this chart, take a year and half of courses on the drugs alone, after the bio to back it up. And this is for fucking cows and dogs!

But people? oh yeah, freedom. Take it to the courts. Human rights issue. Freedom dude!

Legalize it and usage may or may not increase. No metric. Never been done. But legalization will kill existing addicts. No doubt. Decriminalize it and then you can force them into treatment, get them clean. But 100% legalization removes any authority of state to force existing (or new) users into treatment.

[OTown]

Originally posted by frizzlefry

Legalize it and usage may or may not increase. No metric. Never been done. But legalization will kill existing addicts. No doubt. Decriminalize it and then you can force them into treatment, get them clean. But 100% legalization removes any authority of state to force existing (or new) users into treatment.

You just have all of our problems figured out. Wow. Awesome.

Now go to each and every one of those addicts and go tell them to "Go to treatment!" and see what they tell you.

Reality check: They are ADDICTS. They don't give a damn about you or what you have to say they just want to get high and whatever stands between them and the high don't matter. So how will legalization even change that? Unless you want to illegally detain these people for treatment (which wouldn't even work since to treat addiction you need a willing participant). But hey if you want to open up the public to these drugs too and have them go through the same predicament, then its all good right?

So please, good sir, explain how this would change anything?

You do realize treatment already exists for the (willing) addicts whether its legal or not, right?

[frizzlefry]

Originally posted by OTown


You just have all of our problems figured out. Wow. Awesome.

Now go to each and every one of those addicts and go tell them to "Go to treatment!" and see what they tell you.

Reality check: They are ADDICTS. They don't give a damn about you or what you have to say they just want to get high and whatever stands between them and the high don't matter. So how will legalization even change that? Unless you want to illegally detain these people for treatment (which wouldn't even work since to treat addiction you need a willing participant). But hey if you want to open up the public to these drugs too and have them go through the same predicament, then its all good right?

So please, good sir, explain how this would change anything?

..ummm because when you bust them for possession they don't go through a "wham bam thank you mam" 48 hr treatment/detox just to clear them for prison. They actually get an administrative sentence (no criminal record) that includes all the preventative measures and treatments, outside of prison, that would result in the lowest likelihood of re-occurrence of substance abuse, a proven formula that works in the Netherlands and Portugal...

...um dude, are you drunk? I kinda get the idea you are one of the "don't allows drugs anything" camp. I have been a loud proponent of basic decriminalization amongst people that want 100% legalization. And have been flamed for it...Umm...decriminalization allows for some administrative control to help addicts and 100% legaliz...wtf dude? Your post makes no sense as a response to what I have been saying...good sir.

[OTown]

Originally posted by frizzlefry


..ummm because when you bust them for possession they don't go through a "wham bam thank you mam" 48 hr treatment/detox just to clear them for prison. They actually get an administrative sentence (no criminal record) that includes all the preventative measures and treatments, outside of prison, that would result in the lowest likelihood of re-occurrence of substance abuse, a proven formula that works in the Netherlands and Portugal...

...um dude, are you drunk? I kinda get the idea you are one of the "don't allows drugs anything" camp. I have been a loud proponent of basic decriminalization amongst people that want 100% legalization. And have been flamed for it...Umm...decriminalization allows for some administrative control to help addicts and 100% legaliz...wtf dude? Your post makes no sense as a response to what I have been saying...good sir.

The post was heavily laden with sarcasm, but I think you get the point.

Lets face it. You won't go through a '48 hr treatment/detox' if its legal either. In fact, those people will just keep carrying on because there will be nothing for law enforcement to stop them. To that point I do actually think that there should be some sort of treatment for inmates but, again, it would only be successful if the individual inmate himself actually WANTED to get off the drug. But again, we are talking about addicts here.

I completely agree about education and preventative measures. That does help prevent it at the root of the issue. To me this is where we should put all of our focus as we have failed miserably as a society so far.... But why does the drug have to be legal for that to happen? Wouldnt it be actually easier to have such a program if the drugs were harder to gain access to and there were actual negative legal impacts from its possession/consumption? I know tons of people who never did drugs... not because they weren't curious about it but because they had a job and were responsible and knew they would be arrested if they screwed up. So they were adults about it and avoid it. How is that not a good thing? Like it or not criminal sanctions on these drugs actually do lessen and limit use from the public.

Decriminalizing or legalizing it only send the wrong message. To me it relays that we as a society have given up and I don't think people realize the real consequences of such a surrender.

[frizzlefry]

Originally posted by OTown


The post was heavily laden with sarcasm, but I think you get the point.

Lets face it. You won't go through a '48 hr treatment/detox' if its legal either. In fact, those people will just keep carrying on because there will be nothing for law enforcement to stop them. To that point I do actually think that there should be some sort of treatment for inmates but, again, it would only be successful if the individual inmate himself actually WANTED to get off the drug. But again, we are talking about addicts here.

I completely agree about education and preventative measures. That does help prevent it at the root of the issue. To me this is where we should put all of our focus as we have failed miserably as a society so far.... But why does the drug have to be legal for that to happen? Wouldnt it be actually easier to have such a program if the drugs were harder to gain access to and there were actual negative legal impacts from its possession/consumption? I know tons of people who never did drugs... not because they weren't curious about it but because they had a job and were responsible and knew they would be arrested if they screwed up. So they were adults about it and avoid it. How is that not a good thing? Like it or not criminal sanctions on these drugs actually do lessen and limit use from the public.

Decriminalizing or legalizing it only send the wrong message. To me it relays that we as a society have given up and I don't think people realize the real consequences of such a surrender.

Umm...you will go through a useless 48 detox because that happens while you are in a prison cell. Once you stop puking on yourself and won't gross out other inmates you go to real jail. Decriminalization allows for an admistrative sentence. This isn't an "I will show up" for treatment. This is a "hey, instead of jail, where you get detoxed to the point you aren't obnoxious, you get sentenced to a controlled detox facility. Where there are guards. You can't leave. But you are not a felon and leave with a clean record."

But your reply has confirmed...I am surrounded by idiots on both sides. *sigh*

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by Robin Goodfellow


Your email doesn't acknowledge the varying degrees of addictiveness.

Smoking takes some time to get its hooks into you. Some drugs get their hooks in early, and get them in deep.

Someone I know did heroin once, and for the entire next year, it was the first thing he thought of when he woke up every morning.

It's hard to imagine the same thing resulting from smoking a single, or even a pack, of cigarettes.

So you've never smoked then. Got it. I've smoked. I drink. I've done meth, cocaine, weed, ecstasy, shrooms.

It's all addictive. Probably not weed in my option. But smoking is definitely the one I found the second most addictive only to meth. Smoking is really the only one I ever really think about to this day. And I haven't touched any of that shit for over 10 years. Although a couple times a year I do have a cigar with some scotch or while out camping.

Decriminalization just removes jails from the equation and in places it's in place they do force people into rehab and therapy or they go to jail. They get the choice. In Portugal it's been working very well from what I've read so far.

[OTown]

Originally posted by frizzlefry


Umm...you will go through a useless 48 detox because that happens while you are in a prison cell. Once you stop puking on yourself and won't gross out other inmates you go to real jail. Decriminalization allows for an admistrative sentence. This isn't an "I will show up" for treatment. This is a "hey, instead of jail, where you get detoxed to the point you aren't obnoxious, you get sentenced to a controlled detox facility. Where there are guards. You can't leave. But you are not a felon and leave with a clean record."

But your reply has confirmed...I am surrounded by idiots on both sides. *sigh*

The issue here is that you don't really know anything about the current system

You do realize that the above scenario actually exists today right? Its called a Conditional Sentence.

There are tons of addicts who get busted and do actually go for treatment instead of prison and dont get a record from it.

On the flip side, if the drug is decriminalized you wont have the power to say "do this or go to prison". It will just be "i hope you do this or else". Administrative sentences are useless as they pose no punishment nor are there 'teeth' for the system to try and avoid further addiction issues.

TLDR; our current system already has all of the above provisions that you are suggesting. Only thing is you just don't hear/know about it.