Lots of fun with the federal Liberals

[HiTempguy1]

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/new...ate=2015-11-13

Tons of stuff like this is starting to come out of the woodwork, the hypocrisy is typical among the elitists. This article captures perfectly the double speak the liberals are so well known for,looking forward to the piles of lying to grow as time goes on.

[HiTempguy1]

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/new...ate=2015-11-13

Haha, this one is great as well. So much for evidence based governing vs political pandering.

[Kloubek]

So, when there are *serious* issues that arise from this Liberal government, outlined by actually WELL written articles, I imagine we can expect to hear from you a lot more?

[Isaiah]

I'm with Kloubek on this. Hater's gonna hate and start looking for any article that mentions the Liberals in a negative tone. What is even being criticized in the articles? If you have a point to make, state it in your post and include an excerpt from the article supporting it. Otherwise your spam is worse than Toma's.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Kloubek
So, when there are *serious* issues that arise from this Liberal government, outlined by actually WELL written articles, I imagine we can expect to hear from you a lot more?

I'm just simply pointing out the hypocrisy, of blaming the conservatives for these types of tactics and then following in their footsteps immediately. "Supports non-scientific, non-peer reviewed science vigorously and calls out scientists and researchers on the subject in an article, then is placed in a leading role of science in our country".

Also, "well written articles", there is nothing wrong with that article from a nationally accredited news source except that YOU have a problem with it

Originally posted by Isaiah
I'm with Kloubek on this. Hater's gonna hate and start looking for any article that mentions the Liberals in a negative tone. What is even being criticized in the articles? If you have a point to make, state it in your post and include an excerpt from the article supporting it. Otherwise your spam is worse than Toma's.

Liberals campaigned on using objective information to make decisions. Studies have shown that most aboriginal women are murdered by aboriginal men (specifically family/friend relationships, aka the victims knew the perpetrators).

However, even with this evidence produced (and the reason why the Conservatives wouldn't go further because the facts were already in) the minister has declared the facts to be "wrong" and to still forge ahead with a committee costing $40mil over the next two years

[EM2FTL]

Truly shocking, you're doing God's work Hightemp. Good to keep the spotlight on proper policy-making.

Of course, it will be a fuck of a lot easier to make evidence-based decisions when the already-announced long form census returns (hopefully along with some of the other longitudinal studies cancelled under Harper).

[HuMz]

Originally posted by EM2FTL
Truly shocking, you're doing God's work Hightemp. Good to keep the spotlight on proper policy-making.

Of course, it will be a fuck of a lot easier to make evidence-based decisions when the already-announced long form census returns (hopefully along with some of the other longitudinal studies cancelled under Harper).

You do realize that the long form was never left right? It just wasn't forced upon people, doesn't quite fit the muzzling scientists narrative now does it? The Statistics Act includes a $500 fine or up to three months in prison for refusing to fill out the survey or providing false information.

At some point people are going to have to start critically thinking for themselves. Instead of when something comes up they disagree with, or don't like the source, they simply hand wave it away or attack. This progressive line of thinking is anti-intellectual and effectively makes it impossible to engage in proper reasoning on important issues. Watch a few recordings in parliament or in university debates to see how bad its gotten, it's no wonder politicians have trouble getting anything done.

[EM2FTL]

Originally posted by HuMz


You do realize that the long form was never left right? It just wasn't forced upon people, doesn't quite fit the muzzling scientists narrative now does it? The Statistics Act includes a $500 fine or up to three months in prison for refusing to fill out the survey or providing false information.

At some point people are going to have to start critically thinking for themselves. Instead of when something comes up they disagree with, or don't like the source, they simply hand wave it away or attack. This progressive line of thinking is anti-intellectual and effectively makes it impossible to engage in proper reasoning on important issues. Watch a few recordings in parliament or in university debates to see how bad its gotten, it's no wonder politicians have trouble getting anything done.

Uh.. OK. Do you know what happens when you make a census optional? Do you know what kind of response-bias that creates? Apply some of the critical thinking you're advocating for and check this article out, please.

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/v...s-war-on-data/

When told that his small Prairie town had, in profound ways, fallen off the statistical map of Canada, Walter Streelasky, mayor of Melville, Sask., is incredulous. Streelasky had no idea Melville had been rendered a “statistical ghost town” after the mandatory long-form census was cut in 2010, and fewer than 50 per cent of the one third of Melville’s 4,500 residents who got the voluntary National Household Survey that replaced it in 2011 completed the form. Melville still exists—but as a shadow. We know how many people live there, but nothing about them—where they work, their education levels, whether they’re married, single or divorced, how many are immigrants, how many are unemployed, how many live in poverty. Melville’s numbers, then, aren’t factored into Canadian employment numbers or divorce rates or poverty rates. According to Sask Trends Monitor, the high non-response rate in the province resulted in “no socioeconomic statistics about the populations in about one-half of Saskatchewan communities.” Nationally, we’re missing similar data on 20 per cent of StatsCan’s 4,556 “census subdivisions,” making a fifth of Canada’s recognized communities statistical dead zones.

Edit -

How does this fit the anti-science, anti-research narrative?

Towns like Melville are far from the only entities vanishing from official Canadian records. Physicist Raymond Hoff, who published more than 50 reports on air pollution in transport and toxic chemicals in the Great Lakes—including pioneering work on acid rain—at Environment Canada between 1975 and 1999, doesn’t seem to exist, either. “Nothing comes up when I type my name into the search engine on [Environment Canada’s] website,” says Hoff, now a professor emeritus at the University of Maryland. Also gone are internal reports on the oil sands experiments of the 1970s. “That research was paid for by the taxpayer. Now, the people who need to protect Canada’s environment can’t get access.”

Protecting Canadians’ access to data is why Sam-Chin Li, a government information librarian at the University of Toronto, worked late into the night with colleagues in February 2013, frantically trying to archive the federal Aboriginal Canada portal before it disappeared on Feb. 12. The decision to kill the site, which had thousands of links to resources for Aboriginal people, had been announced quietly weeks before; the librarians had only days to train with web-harvesting software.

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
there is nothing wrong with that article from a nationally accredited news source except that YOU have a problem with it

What I have a problem with is when "news" is presented by cherry picking specific instances that support their biased views. Yes, the Liberals are going to do some minor things that are viewed by some as going against what they said. That's politics, and every party does it. There's no point in holding the Liberals to a higher standard just because we got used to the Convervatives doing whatever the hell they wanted and keeping everything secret.

What *I* care about is if they follow through overall with their plans on a whole, and if they run the country properly. So you go ahead and spend your time scouring the internet for pieces of dirt, and I'll remain concerned with how the country is doing under their leadership.

Originally posted by HiTempguy1

However, even with this evidence produced (and the reason why the Conservatives wouldn't go further because the facts were already in) the minister has declared the facts to be "wrong" and to still forge ahead with a committee costing $40mil over the next two years

Even if it is indeed true that native males were largely the perps (and I am not disagreeing with this likelihood) you believe there should be no action taken as to why it is such a problem. Just let it happen. Doesn't matter to you or I, as we live in an urban centre and are of a more common colour right? The Liberal intention is to “immediately launch a national public inquiry, which would seek recommendations on concrete actions that governments, law enforcement, and others can take to solve these crimes and prevent future ones.”

Sounds like a pretty reasonable thing to do. To me at least.

[killramos]

Liberals are lying hypocrites; its just politics.

Conservatives do it? CRIMINALS.

Gonna be an entertaining 4 years guys.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Kloubek

What *I* care about is if they follow through overall with their plans on a whole, and if they run the country properly

The Cons did just that, but everyone was on their shit about it Just trying to keep it balanced here, remember the bloody murder that was cried over a $90k of expense claims in the senate that was paid back? It was national news for MONTHS when it really had no bearing whatsoever on ANYTHING.

Originally posted by Kloubek

Even if it is indeed true that native males were largely the perps (and I am not disagreeing with this likelihood) you believe there should be no action taken as to why it is such a problem.

The native's have their own society as they continuously bleat over and over again. So yes, let them deal with it, it truly is "their" problem. They don't want us interfering... oh wait, unless it involves giving them money with no accountability. Then they'll be more than willing to work with us. National policy isn't going to fix a regional problem (the "region" being areas of concentrated native americans). They need to fix the shit going on in their lives.

While people love to scream about inequality and unfair treatment if they aren't white and male, the overall general gist of our society is quite possibly the most equal its EVER BEEN and continues to improve, and yet people act like its still the 1930's

[Isaiah]

Originally posted by HuMz


You do realize that the long form was never left right? It just wasn't forced upon people, doesn't quite fit the muzzling scientists narrative now does it? The Statistics Act includes a $500 fine or up to three months in prison for refusing to fill out the survey or providing false information.

Here's a 6-minute interview with Munir Sheikh, Canada's former chief statistician who quit when misrepresented by the former government.

http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2677537242

Read more here

He explains how the integrity of the data was compromised in the voluntary survey and why he no longer felt that he could effectively do his job when the long form census was replaced.

On a side note, if you really don't think the former Harper government was muzzling scientists then you must not follow the news.

'It's a new world': Government scientists told they can speak freely to media

Harper's reign of terror finally over for scientists

Work to be done now that muzzle is off government scientists

'Today Was a Great Day': Gov't Scientists Unmuzzled

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by killramos
Liberals are lying hypocrites; its just politics.
Conservatives do it? CRIMINALS.

Who said this? Or, wait... you're just twisting words that were never said to prove a point. Got it.

All parties go back on things they said, for a variety of reasons. Being a new government with a young leader, I think we'll find a higher than average amount of this with the Liberals. It's not necessarily so much lying as much as it is backtracking after the political rhetoric is over and it's time for decisions to be made.

Again, I'm more interested in how the country does, and how the decisions made resonate with the views and values of the general public. How they get there is up to them. That's why they're the government, and we're.... not.

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


The Cons did just that, but everyone was on their shit about it Just trying to keep it balanced here, remember the bloody murder that was cried over a $90k of expense claims in the senate that was paid back? It was national news for MONTHS when it really had no bearing whatsoever on ANYTHING.

I disagree with you on this. The Conservatives ran with their own agenda.... not an agenda that spoke to most Canadians. That's up for debate, I suppose.

I wholeheartedly disagree with you about the Duffy case. While I wouldn't be surprised if coverage was driven largely by anti-Conservatives, not holding politicians accountable for criminal spending does indeed have a bearing on things. Yes, it was paid back, but only after an inquiry was going to lead to him anyway, and after he was comfortable accepting it in the first place. Clearly, his paying it back was to mitigate the fallout.

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
The native's have their own society as they continuously bleat over and over again. So yes, let them deal with it, it truly is "their" problem. They don't want us interfering... oh wait, unless it involves giving them money with no accountability. Then they'll be more than willing to work with us. National policy isn't going to fix a regional problem (the "region" being areas of concentrated native americans). They need to fix the shit going on in their lives.

I agree with this somewhat, actually. I think the inquiry was largely insisted on because the Liberals believed this is what the public wanted, and used it as a key part of their platform to get into power, and it showed they cared about the native people who had so long been ignored. Now they have to follow through. I do think the native situation needs to be overhauled because it isn't working, but that's an entirely different debate that has been covered on Beyond many times.

I think questioning why so many natives are getting murdered is a good step towards being more involved in assessing and trying to come up with ways to improve their lives. I do think greater onus needs to be put on the natives themselves, but hopefully if they see our government trying to work with them and understand their issues, that they in turn will be more willing to make the necessary changes themselves as well.

[HuMz]

Originally posted by EM2FTL


Uh.. OK. Do you know what happens when you make a census optional? Do you know what kind of response-bias that creates? Apply some of the critical thinking you're advocating for and check this article out, please.

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/v...s-war-on-data/



Edit -

How does this fit the anti-science, anti-research narrative?

While your example provides good reason as to why statistics are important, what it most certainly doesn't show is how the Conservative's were anti-science for not making it mandatory. In fact, if you go back and many of the articles from 2010, you will see that the reasoning behind their decision was because citizens felt the government had no right no legally FORCE individuals to disclose personal information.

[EM2FTL]

Originally posted by HuMz


While your example provides good reason as to why statistics are important, what it most certainly doesn't show is how the Conservative's were anti-science for not making it mandatory. In fact, if you go back and many of the articles from 2010, you will see that the reasoning behind their decision was because citizens felt the government had no right no legally FORCE individuals to disclose personal information.

Er... yes, that's correct - I don't know why you're arguing this point, I didn't make a linkage to the census and muzzling of science. I made a linkage to the census and evidence-based decision making. Please note that while science can be a component of this type of decision making, it does not make up the entirety of it.

The importance of a mandatory census should be clear after reading the links both Kloubek and I have posted. If you go back to the same articles from 2010, you'll note that there was no history of people being prosecuted for not filling out the census. It was fear mongering on the part of the Conservatives to justify why they were cancelling it. IMO, the real reason they blew it up was so that it would be impossible to do any objective analysis on the impact of their economic and social policy choices down the road.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Kloubek


All parties go back on things they said, for a variety of reasons.

The liberals campaigned on honesty and integrity. Not only did I not vote for them, but for the people that did, they are already going against those values. It is one thing to say some promises you can't keep, but espousing values that you don't actually believe in is a different story.

Originally posted by Kloubek

What *I* care about is if they follow through overall with their plans on a whole, and if they run the country properly. So you go ahead and spend your time scouring the internet for pieces of dirt, and I'll remain concerned with how the country is doing under their leadership.

And again, no one has any proof beyond the "pieces of dirt" argument that "heir Harper and his cronies" were any worse (or better) To just whitewash that the Liberals are doing the same thing as the Conservatives even when that is what the Liberals actively campaigned on (not doing things the same way the Cons did) is silly. It's basically giving a blanket pass for them to do whatever the hell they want, which if you are ok with that, lets just be clear about it. It shows a tendency to care more about ideology rather than what is best or to have any relative values attached to their work.

I too at the end of the day only really care about how the country is doing period. I don't care who is in power. But look at the link at the bottom of this post...

Originally posted by Kloubek

I think the inquiry was largely insisted on because the Liberals believed this is what the public wanted

I can't think of anyone that remotely gave a crap about this, except for natives themselves. Why does there need to be an "inquiry" in the first place? Why can't the natives do it themselves?

And finally:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...oast-1.3318086

Basically anything Trudeau/the Liberals have announced/decided since being voted in has negatively impacted Alberta. Its starting to look like he is following in his father's footsteps and trying to directly f*&k us over.

That's ok though, EM2FTL will still have his job with the rest of the liberal political weenies

[Kloubek]

I honestly can't comment on the moratorium.... but it certainly doesn't look good for Alberta, or Canada's economy as a result. I'll reserve judgement until I see how it all plays out. I voted for the Liberals as I felt they had a more balanced between oil and the economy. If they do manage to kill the economy through severely restricting oil revenue, then I will accept part blame of my actions for bringing them to power. But like I said twice now, let's focus on results rather than articles and speculation.

...if nothing else, at least we can probably agree the Liberals are getting shit done. They've only been in office for a week and already there are large-scale changes, whether you agree with them or not. Time will tell how they fare for Canada.

[kdwebber]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


And again, no one has any proof beyond the "pieces of dirt" argument that "heir Harper and his cronies" were any worse (or better) To just whitewash that the Liberals are doing the same thing as the Conservatives even when that is what the Liberals actively campaigned on (not doing things the same way the Cons did) is silly. It's basically giving a blanket pass for them to do whatever the hell they want, which if you are ok with that, lets just be clear about it. It shows a tendency to care more about ideology rather than what is best or to have any relative values attached to their work.

I too at the end of the day only really care about how the country is doing period. I don't care who is in power. But look at the link at the bottom of this post...



I can't think of anyone that remotely gave a crap about this, except for natives themselves. Why does there need to be an "inquiry" in the first place? Why can't the natives do it themselves?

And finally:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...oast-1.3318086

Basically anything Trudeau/the Liberals have announced/decided since being voted in has negatively impacted Alberta. Its starting to look like he is following in his father's footsteps and trying to directly f*&k us over.

That's ok though, EM2FTL will still have his job with the rest of the liberal political weenies

No proof? Being overruled by the supreme court again and again is plenty of proof, you just don't want to hear it.

Plenty of people who are not aboriginal care about aboriginal missing and murdered women. The fact that you don't speaks volumes about you as a person.

Banning crude oil tankers on BC's north coast is not anti-Alberta or anti-Oil it's good policy and could very well protect that region from an ecological disaster. Have you ever heard of the Exon Valdez? There are plenty of other options for getting oil to market and the Liberal government is still pursuing them. Acknowledging those facts doesn't fit your agenda though so you ignore them.

Oil production needs to be slowly replaced by more sustainable energy sources so that Alberta can prosper and contribute to the economy in the long run. Alberta needs to diversify away from oil and gas; the people of Alberta will benefit most from having jobs and a future outside of Oil and Gas. If Alberta doesn't diversify we will be left behind, you are just too short sighted to see it.

[rob the knob]

liberals = red

red = communists

you connect dots easy

[01RedDX]

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