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[speedog]

Originally posted by revelations
Obviously in some cases (gust of wind happens SUDDENLY) you just dont have time to react, but if you do the math as per vectors - increasing the forward vector will negate the increased side vector (Pythagoras). Trailer brakes are used when the trailer is swaying already side to side.

I am no expert but the wrong answer is "you cant do anything about it".

While I have never driven a setup like C_Dave45's, I would imagine that it doesn't speed up all that quickly when doing highway speeds nor does it slow down all that quickly and thus the vectors you're speaking of just won't happen in a timely enough fashion.

[R154]

I'll bite.



Tell me how applying force in either the forward or rear direction has any bearing on the angular force exerted in the bottom graphic by the wind?

[speedog]

Originally posted by R154
I'll bite.



Tell me how applying force in either the forward or rear direction has any bearing on the angular force exerted in the bottom graphic by the wind?

C'mon people, haven't you figured this out.

C_Dave45's advanced age will negate his ability to manipulate the space-time continuum around his rig - another couple years and he'll have one foot in the grave like me and be even more fucked.

[R154]

The frictional force between the tires of the trailer as well as the weight of the trailer being bared at the axels with the road also grant a differential in lateral movement from the bottom (tires) to the top (leading long edge of the trailer) creating the angular force I attempted to illustrate.

A change in a vector outside of the lateral one illustrated does nothing to change the tendency for a tall object to be flipped when a force is exerted over the objects' surface.

I dont understand how you plan to use pythagoras to negate (as you said) the forces that were really (largely) responsible.

[Sugarphreak]

....

[bituerbo]

Originally posted by C_Dave45
I felt everything lurch, as we were blown sideways and the trailer started to fishtail. It was hopeless after that. Back and forth across the highway and thn into the ditch.

Revelations is right. That lurch you felt was most likely the hitch joint becoming slack. A trailer and a tow vehicle are like a rope. A rope with slack can be wiggled, a rope that is tight can't be budged. You tighten the link by slowing down the rear or accelerating the front. Worst thing you can do is panic and lift off in a situation like that. I think I read that your wife was driving at the time?

I wish you better luck the next time you take your travel trailer windstorm-jousting. And I'm sorry I called it free, subsidized would have been more accurate.

[revelations]

Awesome MSpaint ....

Example.

Let V1 be 80 kph and V2 be 130 kph.
X is constant at 50 kph.

h1 = 94
h2 = 139

01 = 72 degrees
02 = 40 degrees

If my marth is correct, by increasing your forward speed from 80 to 130kph, you've cut the effect of the x-wind by 43%.

(edit, my marth was wrrroong)

[Sugarphreak]

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[bituerbo]

Originally posted by revelations
Awesome MSpaint ....

Example.

Let V1 be 80 kph and V2 be 130 kph.
X is constant at 50 kph.

h1 = 94
h2 = 139

01 = 59 degrees
02 = 38 degrees

If my marth is correct, by increasing your forward speed from 80 to 130kph, you've cut the effect of the x-wind by 35%.

A waveform of the oscillation would probably make more sense.

[revelations]

Yea one can get pretty complicated with surface areas, resistance, etc.


But the MAIN point was that you CAN do something about crosswinds. Doesent matter what vehicle you drive or are towing.

I encountered this once on the Coquihalla some years ago during a wicked cross wind while in the bike. Was doing about 100 and was constantly being thrown around the lane. I sped up to 160 and the effect was immediate in reducing the amount of sideways force.

[R154]

At a certain point, no matter how fast you are going, a force applied 90 degrees to essentially a huge wind sail will overcome whatever force is keeping it from that rotation. Be-it jackknifing or flipping.

I am willing to concede that given a moderate force applied one may mitigate their trailer from out an out disaster. However, the video posted demonstrates what happens when that large object is overturned by the greater force. Wind -->>> Force keeping trailer upright.

[R154]

Originally posted by revelations
Yea one can get pretty complicated with surface areas, resistance, etc.


But the MAIN point was that you CAN do something about crosswinds. Doesent matter what vehicle you drive or are towing.

I encountered this once on the Coquihalla some years ago during a wicked cross wind while in the bike. Was doing about 100 and was constantly being thrown around the lane. I sped up to 160 and the effect was immediate in reducing the amount of sideways force.

Your mass vs surface area (force exertion), is in orders of magnitude less then that of a trailer which has a drastically different CoG as well as having much, MUCH worse aerodynamic properties.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by bituerbo


Revelations is right. That lurch you felt was most likely the hitch joint becoming slack. A trailer and a tow vehicle are like a rope. A rope with slack can be wiggled, a rope that is tight can't be budged. You tighten the link by slowing down the rear or accelerating the front. Worst thing you can do is panic and lift off in a situation like that. I think I read that your wife was driving at the time?

I wish you better luck the next time you take your travel trailer windstorm-jousting. And I'm sorry I called it free, subsidized would have been more accurate.

I feel like you should have a special license to tow after reading all that haha

An inexperienced operator would be dead in the wind.

[Sugarphreak]

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[R154]

I chose to edit that part out as it didnt relate to the drawing at all upon further inspection.

[R154]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


Yeah I wasn't saying that such a maneuver would get you out of everything, just that it does change the direction of force which could help mitigate wind.

I also wasn't referring to the angle of trailer and truck, rather the sum of forces acting on it... which would otherwise be unseen.

The propensity for wind to act on the trailer is magnified if unloaded as the weight of the truck isnt helping to act on it as a total force.

Be that as it may, at a certain point no matter how much force combined is present from the weight of both vehicles and the momentum gained, it will not be able to counter the effects of a strong enough side force.

That is all I am saying.

Strong enough wind = flipping no matter how fast or slow you drive.

[R154]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


This is all spit-balling anyway, I mean technically the wind force in the Fy direction is still the same. By increasing the tension you are just increasing the total force, not making the wind force any smaller or even redirecting it.

We agree!

[revelations]

You guys are correct in stating that there are various forces at work and that at some point it will be impossible to counter the sideways force, whether due to the sudden intensity or the situation that you're in (cant accelerate etc.).



My point was to counter the statement that "one cant do anything about it".
Clearly one has options.

[Sugarphreak]

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[rage2]

What the fuck happened to this thread?