New Alberta Climate Change Plan

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by 16hypen3sp
All I'm asking for is for lower income tax to offset the carbon tax. But the NDP just can't do it.

We still lack detail on that front. You you don't make enough, you probably will get a rebate. For everyone else, it's just another tax.

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
I see it differently. I don't see this carbon tax motivating anyone to reduce their footprint. 99.999% of people will drive the same car, heat the same house etc. However a PST might actually have a shot at changing behaviour. I know when I'm in BC and Ontario I sometimes catch myself saying "nah I don't need that as bad as I thought"

Well that's why I prefer carbon over PST. Carbon tax hurts businesses less as people will absorb it much like gas price increases in the last 5 years.

[04Terminator]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


PST is essentially a consumption tax. If I don't want to pay it I can stop buying glosset peanuts and COOP brand Jube Jubes. I have to heat my house, I have no choice but to pay this "carbon tax"

Didn't think that through, did you.

It would be far easier to not heat your home than not buy anything.

Phone bill, utilities, internet, cable, cmhc insurance, used cars, new cars, lease, cleaning products, stationary, camp sites, diapers, tires, oil, and a million things you can't live without.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by 04Terminator

Didn't think that through, did you.

It would be far easier to not heat your home than not buy anything.

Phone bill, utilities, internet, cable, cmhc insurance, used cars, new cars, lease, cleaning products, stationary, camp sites, diapers, tires, oil, and a million things you can't live without.

Ya, fuck heating my house, can't figure out why so many people bother. But my internet, cable and stationary those are necessities I can't live without!

And I'm the one who didn't think it through

[frizzlefry]

You can't tax people with a "usage" tax if there is no other alternative. This is an additional tax on a necessity. I have no choice, at all, how my condo is heated. No doubt my condo fees will increase to heat the building.

With this policy the best thing a person can do to negate their environment footprint is to live out not up. 3000 sqr feet all their own and set up solar panels so they can live off the grid. Less carbon right?

At least I would own some land. Without a viable alternative this is just another tax that won't deter any behavior as most users don't have a choice.

[black_2.5RS]

Calgary needs uber. Booked a cab on their app. Got a confirmation number. Taxi didn't show up, no record of a booking. Associated sucks.

[ZenOps]

This is Canada, suck it up and live in a $15 tent with candlepower heating at -30.

[rage2]

Originally posted by googe
So, about 50 cents per day per person in 2018?

THE WORLD IS ENDING GUYS

Well if you put it that way, with the NDP and Liberals about to tax the fuck out of my family because they're better than me at determine where and who our money goes to, I'm going to do the prudent thing under a socialist regime. I'm going to stop donating to charities in 2016, and I urge others to follow in my footsteps.

I donate to 15 or so charities every year, helping friends out in charity drives, with the majority going to my favored charities over the years, so on average about $2/day per charity, with an estimate of pennies per person affected by each charity. Their world isn't going to end either with such an insignificant amount. I'll let the government do the right thing and decide where to spend all the additional money they're taking from us.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by googe
So, about 50 cents per day per person in 2018?

THE WORLD IS ENDING GUYS

How does $500+ extra per year work out to $0.50 a day?

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by FraserB


How does $500+ extra per year work out to $0.50 a day?

Marth, presumably.

[blitz]

Originally posted by FraserB


How does $500+ extra per year work out to $0.50 a day?

You divide by 2.73...

...for some reason.

[A790]

I subscribe to the belief that the perception of our oil stands and their respective environmental impact is a major hindrance in getting our oil access to markets, and is also a major reason for the rejection of the Keystone XL.

I think that a very public showing of our environmental chops and how we will continue to improve is very much needed to make sure that we remain a valid contender in the market.

However, what the NDP are rolling out isn't at all how I would accomplish that (not that I know a better way, as I have not invested time into consulting with current policy and industry leaders to determine appropriate next steps).

This just seems very short sighted.

[pheoxs]

A lot of people here seem to be reading this wrong. The low income families aren't going to benefit from this, they are simply getting a rebate to offset the tax that they would be paying. I.e. they are in the same boat they are now.

The rest of the tax collected goes into the other things mentioned in the article.

[supe]

Originally posted by kertejud2


This is strictly transferring money from one group of people to another under the guise of making a change in climate policy. Nothing 'normal' about it.

You do realize that lower income families pay the tax, then get a rebate for that tax, meaning the net result is zero, or in other words they didn't actually gain anything. So its not really wealth distribution as it is only taxing the middle and upper class.

Anyway this isn't exactly out of the ordinary, from wikipedia on carbon tax:

Carbon taxes can be a regressive tax, in that they may directly or indirectly affect low-income groups disproportionately. The regressive impact of carbon taxes could be addressed by using tax revenues to favour low-income groups.[8]

[Nitro5]

Originally posted by revelations


As much as I hate NDP, I think they are correct in that OPTICS matter in politics 50x more than stats.

There are some really, really dumb people who get to make macro-scale decisions solely based on how our province is viewed nationally and internationally ..... the mere fact that we're "trying" to move away from coal would appear like we care and are making HUGE strides towards green pastures and wind powered cities !!!

Politics is such a joke.

Agreed, my beef is the tax increase to do it. My stance had always been that between the municipal, provincial and federal levels I pay enough out of my earnings, right around 50% when all said and done. They can figure out how to properly spend my money, nor increase my tax load.

If this was truly revenue neutral is be all for it. But it's not, is simply a tax grab.

[msommers]

50%?

[suntan]

All taxes are a form of wealth re-distribution. kertejud2, as usual, is confused and is getting the purpose of taxation and its macro-economic effects conflated.

However, what the NDP are rolling out isn't at all how I would accomplish that (not that I know a better way, as I have not invested time into consulting with current policy and industry leaders to determine appropriate next steps).

Coal: Drastically increase royalty rates for coal. This will also preclude companies from exporting coal (if it ain't burned in Alberta, then no carbon tax. Nice loophole. I'm sure they didn't even notice).

Carbon tax: make it a VAT tax. As it stands now we're gonna have quadruple taxation by the time you buy anything.

NG tax: Require providers to reduce fees a proportionate amount.

Make the taxes entirely revenue neutral by reducing income tax rates.

A hard cap on total emissions.

The plan is mostly optics. The coal plant shutdown timeline is so long that those plants would be decommissioned anyhow by 2030 without gov't intervention.

The renewal goal of 30% is a pipe dream. Ontario replaced their coal plant output with nuclear. BC used hydro (at the cost of massive land degradation. No one seemed to have noticed). Neither are a real option for Alberta. Wind requires significant backing power.

Well if anything this means the NDP are a one term gov't.

Of course the real, horrible thing about this whole situation is that by the end of this week, China will have built enough coal plants to make anything we do here moot.

[Nitro5]

Originally posted by msommers
50%?

All tax from all levels of government.

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by Nitro5


All tax from all levels of government.

How do you figure 50%?

I see ~33% from income tax, 5% from GST and thats it. For some things (fuel, booze, cigs) there are additional taxes, but for most expenses (mortgage/rent, most food, entertainment, most merchandise) there is not anymore taxes than that.

Unless you spend all your money on smokes and alcohol

[suntan]

Property taxes?

Gas taxes?

The multitude of fees that are basically taxes on your utility bill?

[A790]

Originally posted by pheoxs


How do you figure 50%?

I see ~33% from income tax, 5% from GST and thats it. For some things (fuel, booze, cigs) there are additional taxes, but for most expenses (mortgage/rent, most food, entertainment, most merchandise) there is not anymore taxes than that.

Unless you spend all your money on smokes and alcohol

Property tax
Registration fees
Taxes on goods/services (tariffs, etc.)

I figure I'm right about 50% as well.