Question for our Lawyers and Police Officers

[JRSC00LUDE]

Out of curiosity from people who definitively know the answer (as there is often confusion around this I have seen) I'll paraphrase my experience below:


On the weekend I was pulled over for a "sobriety check" a little after midnight as I left the rink from playing hockey, which was fine as I hadn't been drinking at all that day or evening.

When the officer came to my window his response to my question of "What can I do for you?" was "We are performing a sobriety check on you, are you intoxicated/have you been drinking?". My response to this was along the lines of "Did I do something that led you to believe I am intoxicated?" and he got a bit uppity that I questioned him (my opinion with his tone and facial expression) and demanded my Drivers License which he then went back to run.

When he returned he asked again if I'd been drinking and I stated no, he gave me my license and said something along the lines of "For your reference, sobriety checks and license checks are valid legal reasons to pull you over." I said I didn't ask to be argumentative, I just wanted to know and wished him well (although after I gave him my license I muttered something to myself about him being a prick because I didn't like his demeanor but the only things that heard that were me and the voice recorder running in my truck).

So the simple question is, is this true? Can you be pulled over at whim for zero apparent reason simply for the purpose of checking your ID or to "verify your sobriety" (this was not a designated checkstop) while driving even if you have committed no infraction or made any visible driving error that would warrant attention?

For the record, I'm not against stop-checks. Also I drove extra cautiously even though I was zero alcohol/stone sober as one of my buddies is a City cop and text back to our team that guys were getting pulled over so be careful. They had four or five cars out there hiding in the dark (rink is outside the City a short ways) with all lights off who would pull out of a secondary grid and turn on their lights and pull over whoever came along.

Thoughts?

[FraserB]

It's 100% legal to pull you over to check sobriety, license, registration or insurance even if no infraction occurred.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by FraserB
It's 100% legal to pull you over to check sobriety, license, registration or insurance even if no infraction occurred.

That is my opinion also but one that is argued by others and, that I have never felt the need to verify but I thought why not since it just happened....

[FraserB]

It's been ruled that what happened to you would be a Section 9 Charter violation, but Section 1 allows the Section 9 violation to occur. v. Laducouer if you're interested.

Disclaimer: Not a lawyer

[shakalaka]

Pretty much yes.

There is perhaps a little more to it but that is pretty much the case. Technically there is no general right to detention, but the threshold is extremely low to make a traffic stop justifiable.

For example, a PO can't just pull you over and say, 'I pulled you over for the sake of pulling you over and have no reason to". Cause then that detention is arbitrary. But all they really have to do is say, 'I want to do a document check'. This only applies to the driver of course, not the passenger. Different issues come into play when questioning passengers.

[Xtrema]

"Did I do something that led you to believe I am intoxicated?"

A simple no will let you keep going. Because a question like that rings so much more alarm bells in my head if I'm a cop.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by Xtrema


A simple no will let you keep going. Because a question like that rings so much more alarm bells in my head if I'm a cop.

It's doesn't ring alarm bells. What is says is "fuck, another one of these pricks. Well, if there is a ticket here, you better believe he is gonna get it instead of a warning."

JRS, don't be this guy.


A simple DUI check, guy is keeping the roads safe. He saw something to make him decide that pulling you over to check things out was warranted. No need to cop an attitude. Pun sorta intended. that one question probably quadrupled your time stopped.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by spikerS


It's doesn't ring alarm bells. What is says is "fuck, another one of these pricks. Well, if there is a ticket here, you better believe he is gonna get it instead of a warning."

JRS, don't be this guy.


A simple DUI check, guy is keeping the roads safe. He saw something to make him decide that pulling you over to check things out was warranted. No need to cop an attitude. Pun sorta intended. that one question probably quadrupled your time stopped.

You couldn't be more wrong, the whole thing lasted less than two minutes and there was absolutely nothing he saw that "made him" decide to pull me over. They had already decided to pull over every vehicle leaving the rink regardless. Not in a designated stop-check per second but by hiding on a secondary at the main highway. Hence the questions...

For Xtrema, I realize that I just thought no time like the present to ask the question. I haven't been pulled over in years and had zero chance of being dinged with anything so I wanted to see two things - how the Officer would respond to being questioned and, if he would provide a factual answer.

He didn't overly appreciate being questioned (by my read of his countenance and body language, but he didn't let that affect his professionalism or decision making. A+. As far as factual, I believe he was but that's why I'm asking to see, you hear different things from different people.

I have my opinions on certain aspects of policing but I also appreciate the majority of what they do and don't treat them with disrespect. If something that simple is considered being a shit disturber there's something wrong....

[OTown]

I dont understand this whole 'giving attitude' to cops. Ive never seen it ending well.

For some reason this reminds me of this thread :P

[JRSC00LUDE]

Where was the attitude exactly? Are you saying you're not allowed to ask questions and if you do, you deserve problems? Because THAT sounds like an attitude problem....



Edit - obviously you feel asking questions is "giving attitude" so there you go, now you've seen it end well I guess. Although the only attitude that applies is me talking to myself and muttering prick because of my perception to his response. None of that was present in speaking to him, I deal with people everyday without them knowing what I'm actually feeling or thinking, it's called being respectful and professional.

Well, except for on here I guess.....

[revelations]

Dont use American examples of road stops, they vary so much from State to State and (as you can see) the laws sometimes contradict or supersede each other.

Canada has completely different motor vehicle acts and citizens rights.

On average, the police in America are a whole different group than the ones in Canada. Nowhere near the same level of professionalism.

[OTown]

JRS I can imagine that you are probably the 100th person to go through that checkstop. Imagine yourself in that officer's shoes. Can you imagine if every single person took to questioning and challenging them when they are just doing their job and their actions are completely lawful?

Add to that the fact that he already told you why you were being pulled over.. and I quote "We are performing a sobriety check on you, are you intoxicated/have you been drinking?"

So why do you need to question it any further? Your question was already answered before you decided to try and look 'smart'.

All you had to say was "no i have not had any alcohol today" and you're rolling in no time.

[JRSC00LUDE]

As said, I was rolling in no time regardless, professional officer out doing his job well. If I wanted to try and "look smart" I would have told him what he can and can't do. What's the issue with asking a genuine question to a person who should be able to tell you the answer? And he did, correctly it would seem. The point of the thread was to confirm that, then those who don't know will.

You have a very consistent combative attitude towards any thread related to traffic that doesn't tow your line. I'm beginning to think you either are, or were, one of the problem officers who make others look bad by their lack of understanding that while they may deal with shut every day the majority of people they come across do not and may not fully understand what is right and wrong.

[OTown]

Im just saying what everyone else has said on this thread so far so I don't understand where you got this 'combative attitude'. Seems everyone on here thinks you were trying to be argumentative.

You even said quote "although after I gave him my license I muttered something to myself about him being a prick because I didn't like his demeanor but the only things that heard that were me and the voice recorder running in my truck" so that shows your mindset - and who knows what your body language was saying.

Not sure how the whole 'officer' thing came from?

And yes, I do seem to have a different perspective than most on here but that's just what it is, a different perspective and attitude. Its pretty hard to estimate what happened (body language, etc) over a couple lines of text, so yes it will be open to different interpretation. And I like to debate issues I find relevant or am opinionated on. So thats maybe where the 'combative attitude' comes from? Its called debate, we wont all agree on stuff, so why are you calling me out on it?

[Mista Bob]

If you were pulled over and weren't doing anything that would normally get one pulled over, would you not be curious as to why?
It's a completely innocent and justified question. Now if he phrased the question "Why the fuck did you pull me over, pig?" then I could understand why one might think he was trying to be argumentative

Originally posted by OTown
JRS I can imagine that you are probably the 100th person to go through that checkstop.

From first post

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE


(this was not a designated checkstop)

[gwill]

I'm so confused by some of the replies on here. How is asking a question to a police officer being combative? When you get pulled over you have every right to ask the officer questions regardless if he pulled over 100 people prior or your the first. He should always be respectful.

Can we shit on anyone we want at our work place? No... And neither can a police officer. If jrs was being combative he would have ended up with multiple tickets for all sorts of things. That didn't happen.

And before you say cops don't Ticket you for no reason I recall seeing a YouTube video from Edmonton where police officers went back to this assholes house with a specialized car inspector to write up tickets to this guys customized vehicle. They went out of their way to hit him with as many tickets as possible because the guy was an ass.

[frizzlefry]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE

They had already decided to pull over every vehicle leaving the rink regardless. Not in a designated stop-check per second but by hiding on a secondary at the main highway. Hence the questions...

Dude that's a checkstop. As far as I know there is no separate law dictating the circumstances of a checkstop. I have been checkstopped along with others by ghost cars and sometimes marked cruisers. Just because CFCN news and the big mobile van with "Checkstop" written on it isn't present does not make it any less a checkstop. Pretty sure a single random check falls under the same law. In fact I don't think the term checkstop is even mentioned in law. It's simply a social term for a concerted random pull and check for drunks. Leveraging the police's right to ask for proof of license and/or insurance.

I have never had a problem with them. Me and some friends got blasted at a party and my wife, who doesn't drink, was our designated. We hit a checkstop, cop asked if my wife was drinking and she said no. He replied "well why does it smell like booze in this car?" I slurred, out of turn, "Sas cuz we're loaded dude. Shees takin us home". He chuckled, never asked for a breath sample, let us on our way.

No biggie IMO. I wouldn't question a co-workers random question as to why something didn't print ("What, what did I do to make you think its my fault") nor would I act like a dick to a cop just checking for drunks. Simple yes/no. Interact with them politely like you would anyone else. Done. Not saying you were out of line JRS. Just that you can defend your rights without being all "freeman of the land"

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
For Xtrema, I realize that I just thought no time like the present to ask the question. I haven't been pulled over in years and had zero chance of being dinged with anything so I wanted to see two things - how the Officer would respond to being questioned and, if he would provide a factual answer.

Just that I have pulled over twice in my life for check stop, neither did they ask for ID or go back to crusier to run said ID. Just stop, check my face, ask a question and move along. 30s tops.

I found the extra run on ID suspicious. And it happened after you asked that question which prompted me to think that extra question prompted the cop to go the extra mile.

Just observation. I don't get checkstopped enough to know if running of ID is routine or not.

[relyt92]

Originally posted by Xtrema


Just that I have pulled over twice in my life for check stop, neither did they ask for ID or go back to crusier to run said ID. Just stop, check my face, ask a question and move along. 30s tops.

I found the extra run on ID suspicious. And it happened after you asked that question which prompted me to think that extra question prompted the cop to go the extra mile.

Just observation. I don't get checkstopped enough to know if running of ID is routine or not.

My experience is the same, have never had ID run, just a quick 20 second conversation and I've always been on my way.

[OTown]

Originally posted by Mista Bob
If you were pulled over and weren't doing anything that would normally get one pulled over, would you not be curious as to why?
It's a completely innocent and justified question. Now if he phrased the question "Why the fuck did you pull me over, pig?" then I could understand why one might think he was trying to be argumentative

From first post

Ive been in this situation before. Been pulled over by about 5-6 checkstops from memory, both high visibility (the ones with the bus etc) and the hidden ones.

Was I curious? Well the high vis ones are obvious but the other 'hidden' ones? Absolutely. One of the times I thought I got nailed in a speed trap.

I was curious - until the cop explained why he stopped me. I was being stopped for sobriety. Cool - curiosity ended.

I dont ask for more clarification cause I dont NEED more clarification. The question JRS asked is irrelevant. I'm sure the cop wants me out of there faster than I did. So every time i say 'yes sir' or 'no sir' and I carry on with my day after 20 seconds.