Turkey shoot down Russian plane, Putin calls Turkey accomplisses to terror.

[schurchill39]

I believe last winter there was an incident where Russia was toeing the line of American air space just off of Alaska. They had to be escorted out, or jets were scrambled or something like that.....

[suntan]

Originally posted by schurchill39
I believe last winter there was an incident where Russia was toeing the line of American air space just off of Alaska. They had to be escorted out, or jets were scrambled or something like that.....

Meh, that shit happens all the time.

[Gman.45]

The Russians are famous for their zero fucks given about violating other countries airspace - esp. those whom they consider to be weaker on the world stage (eg. Sweden, Finland, Norway etc.). The only answer to bullying is to fight back, thats what happened here.

DingDingDing!

Exactly - in fact in the last couple of weeks Russia has violated Turkish airspace intentionally several times. It's sent in pairs of SU30 fighters, locked up Turkish fighters with their radars while in Turkish airspace, then turned and evaded/retreaded to Syrian airspace. In fact, Russia hasn't even denied it, the last time they pulled that stunt with their air superiority fighters, SU30s, they claimed it was "Navigational error" for their reason for being in Turkish airspace. Oh ya, and for the radar locks too. Good one, with all the modern nav aids, it's almost impossible for the territorial violations to be mere accidents.

If you look at the track of this SU24, it turned two times to circle back and penetrate the same part of Turkish airspace. It was warned. It did it again. It ate an Aim120.

While I do agree that shooting Russian planes isn't a real brilliant long term strategy, at what point is enough, enough?

If Turkey sent fighters into Russian airspace, locked up Russian fighters, and repeated this behavior several times, does anyone here think Russian wouldn't shoot eventually? I doubt they would have been as patient as the Turks have been with that.


Article 4 of the Nato charter is the real issue here. I wonder how many times those two words have been uttered in the emergency Nato meeting right now - the thumb on the clicker counting that would be numb. Article 4 is a two edged sword, especially for Nato members like Turkey.

Russia does have a point too, Turkey buying cheap oil from ISIS is effing ridiculous, why NATO is tolerating that is beyond me.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by schurchill39
I believe last winter there was an incident where Russia was toeing the line of American air space just off of Alaska. They had to be escorted out, or jets were scrambled or something like that.....

Russian Bears are constantly going up and down the west coast from the north pole, down Alaska, the coast of BC, and all the way down to Mexico, just sitting a mile or so out of american and canadian air space. The US also continually mirrors them along their flight plan, ready to lock on and fire.

[Nitro5]

isn't Turkey also playing games of where it's border with Syria is as well? Was the plane in Turkish airspace, or in the disputed area?

[04Terminator]

Obviously, countries with common goals and enemies should not shoot at each other, but offer safety for its pilots and combatants.

Turkey has made it clear it supports ISIS, and what side it's on. Time to treat them accordingly.

[ICEBERG]

Some more background to this incident:

"If confirmed this was not the first Russian planes breached into the Turkish airspace. On Oct. 3 and 4 a Russian Air Force Su-30SM and Su-24 aircraft violated Ankara’s sovereign airspace in the Hatay region. NATO said that the Russian combat planes entered Turkish airspace despite Turkish authorities’ “clear, timely and repeated warnings.” In that case, TuAF F-16s in QRA (Quick Reaction Alert) were scrambled to identify the intruder, after which the Russian planes departed Turkish airspace. Nevertheless, as if violating the airspace of a NATO member was not enough, the Russian Su-30SM maintained a radar lock on one or both the F-16s for a full 5 minutes and 40 seconds. According the Russians, the violation was due to a “navigation error.” Following the incident Ankara said it would shot down any aircraft violating their sovereign airspace as done in the past with the Syrian Mig-23 and Mi-17."

"Navigation error" A Garmin is going to be on someone's Christmas list.

[04Terminator]

All the excuses in the world don't justify supporting ISIS instead of countries fighting it.

Turkey, under the current ruler is an extremist state, and is buying ISIS oil and supplying aid to ISIS and affording mobility.

Turkey has officially chosen sides.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by 04Terminator
Obviously, countries with common goals and enemies should not shoot at each other, but offer safety for its pilots and combatants.

Turkey has made it clear it supports ISIS, and what side it's on. Time to treat them accordingly.

I knew it. Its Toma.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Russia is fighting ISIS, but also gathering intel on NATO air space. They have been testing it for a while now.

Turkey has been backing ISIS simply they hate Kurds.

This is a really fucked up situation. People need to understand we need to stay out and dictatorship is the only working solution in that area.



Turkey should have never be admitted into NATO, let alone EU. Especially the current ultra religious and right wing government.

Holy fuck. A dictatorship is the only way.

[BavarianBeast]

» Click image for larger version

[ICEBERG]

Originally posted by 04Terminator
All the excuses in the world don't justify supporting ISIS instead of countries fighting it.

Turkey, under the current ruler is an extremist state, and is buying ISIS oil and supplying aid to ISIS and affording mobility.

Turkey has officially chosen sides.

More like this... It is a mess there an this cartoon sums it up....

[ickyflex]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


I knew it. Its Toma.

hahaaha

[ICEBERG]

It is soooo messed up in the region that here are some good reads.

There's also another factor here. Russia has, in just the past week, been bombing Syrian rebels who are part of the Turkmen ethnic group. This enraged Turkey, which summoned the Russian ambassador to demand Russia stop its bombing. Turkey considers ethnic Turkmen to be something like unofficial Turkish citizens.

Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu called the Russian-bombed Syrians "our Turkmen siblings" and said "we are condemning this barbarian attack in the strongest way." A statement by Turkey's foreign ministry warned the bombing "may lead to serious consequences."

That is not to say that Turkey necessarily shot down the Russian plane in cold-blooded vengeance for Russia bombing ethnic Turkmens. But the bombings may have contributed to already-rising tensions between Turkey and Russia over Syria. And it's not just the flights: Russia intervened in Syria to support Bashar al-Assad, but Turkey has been involved in Syria for a few years seeking to topple Assad. They're on opposite sides of a deadly serious proxy war. Escalation was not out of the question.

http://www.vox.com/2015/11/24/979099...lane-shootdown

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34910389

[revelations]

Turkey isnt helping in the region, but the Russians are stupid if they think they can get away with flying around with impunity..... having said that the Americans are guilty of this as well.... just not to the same degree and the Americans have a lot more friendly nations around the world than Russia.

Anyone watched comments from Wes Clark lately?

[OTown]

To me this was a major mistake by the Turkish government but I doubt anything will come from it. Russia knew full well what they were doing - they have been caught in the wrong airspace countless times. These types of things (blue on blue) happen more often than we like to know. Im sure Turkey will have to make up some sort of compensation but I doubt a war will be started by such a mistake.

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by OTown
To me this was a major mistake by the Turkish government but I doubt anything will come from it. Russia knew full well what they were doing - they have been caught in the wrong airspace countless times. These types of things (blue on blue) happen more often than we like to know. Im sure Turkey will have to make up some sort of compensation but I doubt a war will be started by such a mistake.

This is definitely not a blue on blue shooting. Turkey has warned Russia to stay out of its airspace plenty of times. Now they get a bigger message.

The Turkish Air Force can certainly handle anything the Russia s throw at it though. It's one of the most advanced in the West.

[eblend]

Pretty shitty thing to do for 17 seconds of incursion....way to help out ISIS turkey...first buying their cheap ass oil ...bombing Kurds....

[Supa Dexta]

Wouldn't their air force be much smaller and could be swarmed by numbers alone? No idea, just a thought.

Russia says they weren't in there
Turkey says they warned them 10x over a 5 min period to leave
US says they were in fact in there, but only for seconds...?

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
Wouldn't their air force be much smaller and could be swarmed by numbers alone? No idea, just a thought.

Russia says they weren't in there
Turkey says they warned them 10x over a 5 min period to leave
US says they were in fact in there, but only for seconds...?

I would be surprised if Russia could put up a large number of any fighter that would be a match for Turkey's heavily upgraded F-16s.

Considering that their "fight" against ISIS or whatever the hell they're doing in Syria is nothing more than helicopters dropping dumb bombs out their doors or using expensive cruise missiles for a show of force (and really, something the USA has been doing forever.)