Turkey shoot down Russian plane, Putin calls Turkey accomplisses to terror.

[ICEBERG]

I wouldn't want to F@ck around with Turkey. Would they win against Russia? Prob. not but they also won't loose...

[Gman.45]

The Russians have some pretty good a2a weapons. Remember that their AA11 Archer was easily the best IR guided weapon in the world for decades until the Aim9x, IRIS, ASRAAM, Python, and some of the other Israeli/French missiles came along many years after the R73/AA11 was around. It was the first off axis/Helmet sight cued missile, and when the West got a hold of one in the late 80s, they were very surprised at how much more advanced it was than the current Aim9s, even the Aim9m at the time which was just coming around. Their Adder class MRM missiles are pretty capable as well, so are their radars in their SU30s in Syria right now too. Don't make the mistake of underestimating them.

That said, I do agree that training, experience, as well as using modern air battle doctrine including AWACS gives Turkey an advantage in that department, however to offset that Russia now has an S300/SAN6 equipped ship and an SA21 battery in the theater, which can pick off an Awacs from quite a distance with the long range missile in the S400/SA21 battery, as well as most anything else. Until they were destroyed, both these SAM systems can hold at risk every fighter Turkey could put in the air over Syira - and destroying an S400 battery is no easy task for Turkey, even without a layered defense surrounding it, which I'm certain will be there, if it isn't already.

Again, don't underestimate the Russians or their tech.

I do agree also that the "numbers" of the Russian air force are inflated, most of the current sources show airframes, not actual planes available for combat NOW, which is a fraction of the stated aircraft levels. Right now, today, India for example who fly SU variant fighters, have over 1/2 down waiting for engines or engine repair parts, or other vital avionics/systems repairs. The reason for that is Russia can't keep up with their maintenance due to shortages in all the above - I doubt it's much different for their own AF.

If it came to war between Turkey/Russia and Nato ignore the article 4 part of the NATO treaty, it'd be a very close fight in the air in opening days IMO, lots of planes destroyed by both A2A weapons and SAM systems in the first battles, on both sides.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSplat
their ability to project air power into Turkey is far lesser than Turkey's ability to maintain and defend the skies over their borders. The Turks are modernized and well-equipped.

I think this is really the thing to focus on. Sure, straight up Russia could overwhelm Turkey with their airforce, but that's not what we are talking about. It's Russia that is projecting, Turkey defending. Turkey can probably defend all day long against the Russians.

Good on Turkey for standing its ground. Hope NATO stands behind it (even though as mentioned earlier, Turkey should never have been a part of NATO).

[jdmXSI]

Originally posted by eblend
Pretty shitty thing to do for 17 seconds of incursion....way to help out ISIS turkey...first buying their cheap ass oil ...bombing Kurds....

Agreed, even looking exactly where they impeded their airspace this whole thing is a bit rediculous.

[killramos]

Considering the history between Russia and Turkey, Russia shouldn't have been going within 50 km of Turkish airspace. Pull that 30 years ago and there likely would be have been nuclear launch procedures initiated.

Russia was being cocky and poking the bear and geuss what. They got burned for it.

Do i think Turkey shooting down a Russian fighter plane was a good idea? No

Do i understand why they did it? Yes.

They were the ones making a joke of an adversaries sovereignty.

[jdmXSI]

I guess just the tip is never a good idea then...?

I do agree they were poking the bear especially if it was a consistent thing but that is hard to justify in that part of their air airspace and the fact it was a few seconds. Let's just hope it doesn't escalate.

[KrisYYC]

Turkish fighter jets routinely violate Greek airspace. The Greeks warn them and escort them out. Turkey can't play innocent vicitim here. Especially if they really are underhandedly supporting ISIS by buying oil from them and going after the Kurds.

I do find it odd that within a week of Russia bombing ISIS oil convoys Turkey shoots down one of their aircraft...

Why Turkey was ever allowed in NATO is beyond me. If it does escalate I hope the rest of NATO leaves Turkey on their own.

[Go4Long]

Originally posted by ICEBERG
I wouldn't want to F@ck around with Turkey. Would they win against Russia? Prob. not but they also won't loose...

hahaha a new 5th gen twin engine fighter that hasn't had a first flight yet is included in their weapons systems by 2025 video? That's optimism.

[Kloubek]

The bottom line is no matter whether you agree with what Turkey should have been entitled to do what they did or not, the fact remains that any new conflicts in the region can only serve to destabilize things further. It was bad enough when different countries are supporting different rebel groups, but to have actual country vs country conflict is a scary proposition. (The kind of thing that really can lead to full-out wars.)

[01RedDX]

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[ICEBERG]

Originally posted by KrisYYC
Turkish fighter jets routinely violate Greek airspace. The Greeks warn them and escort them out.

What??? Greeks have planes to escort anyone out. I thought they sold everything on ebay to pay their debt to EU...

[Sentry]

Originally posted by ICEBERG


What??? Greeks have planes to escort anyone out. I thought they sold everything on ebay to pay their debt to EU...

Nah mang, greeks don't pay debts.