Poke Holes In My Speeding Ticket Defense

[Black Gts]

Originally posted by OTown


So the fact that you cant slow down for a few seconds to safely pass a first responder/tow truck makes it a cash grab? Put yourself in their shoes and that it was you on the side of the road. It would make you feel pretty unconfortable to have cars flying by at 110km/h+ while you are trying to do your job.

No lesson learnt there, if they were using laser and pulling people I'd be fine with that. Park a car in front of a tow truck actually working and nail the driver, apparently that's why distracted driving now carries demerits.

[gwill]

Full disclosure? Man your dumb... Go talk to the JP to get it thrown out. Your making this way harder then it needs to be.

[OTown]

Originally posted by Black Gts


No lesson learnt there, if they were using laser and pulling people I'd be fine with that. Park a car in front of a tow truck actually working and nail the driver, apparently that's why distracted driving now carries demerits.

So you are saying that you would be fine if a cop pulled you over and gave you demerits instead of getting a straight fine (registered owner) ticket that doesnt affect your abstract? Am I reading your comment correctly? And how would that not make you slow down the next time you see crews on the side of the road?

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by phil98z24
Here are two things from the other side, as it were, that may answer your question:

1) They post in the major roadways coming into the city (municipality) as required by law. They have also done disclosure through the city website, and they don't have to mention specific sites. They probably got you on Memorial Drive, I assume? Which is considered a thoroughfare, and I don't think it counts in terms of community type enforcement. As well, the definition of municipality can be found in Municipal Government Act:

"Municipality” means
(i) a city, town, village, summer village, municipal
district or specialized municipality,

I see what you're saying, but you're misinterpreting the law. It doesn't apply to communities.

2) I've seen this defense tried before, and the PO operating the camera was incredibly articulate and easily shot it down. In your defense, it's a really good idea and I actually think it would work in maybe a smaller town, but Calgary relies on this revenue and they have this wired tight. I just don't see them screwing this up.

Nice to hear from you again phil98z24, and as always, precise details.

[msommers]

JP is pretty good about halving the cost of the ticket if you explain what happened in positive tone - more flies with honey etc. For your time outside and inside court spent on this, just doesn't seem worthwhile to me.

[black300]

I understand you want to fight the ticket for some reason. Most likely the cost of the ticket will be reduced.

I just don't understand why they let drivers do that. Especially in this particular case:

1.) You or your wife were speeding at 12km/h more than posted speed.

2.) They got evidence and nailed you.

There is nothing more to this, yes everyone would like to go fight a ticket to reduce the cost. But it seems as if your looking to win a battle, you are the culprit.

What did the CPS do wrong? They set up a radar? There was an error with their computer and you were going 12km/h less than posted speed.

Just seems as if this is all about personal satisfaction.

In my opinion this should stop, its a waste of time and the drivers who are receiving tickets are not learning their experience. Yes a police officer may make a mistake or maybe biased when he issuing you a ticket. Therefore go argue it, but a computer/radar that is generating tickets with minimal room for error.

My friend got a ticket for tint 3 times for the same vehicle within a year. Every time he would take the ticket and get it reduced, finally when he received his fourth ticket, the court told him that he had to pay double the fine opposed to the ticket and go show his vehicle at a local police station to verify the tint was removed. Lesson learned for him.

[Lex350]

What's with the sanctimonious a-holes in this thread already? What do you really wish to accomplish by beating a dead house here other than felling superior. Not withstanding the speeding I am interested in how this gets interpreted. I like the information that comes from it. OP is well within his rights to challenge it. The system allows for it. Go take your holier than thou circle jerk and make your own thread and go nuts bitching about people wasting your tax dollars.

Leave this one for people who are clearly interested in how it turns out.

[OTown]

If you go to court and choose to plead guilty the crown normally gives you a decent break on the fine. If its a question of affordability then I would highly recommend OP go to court, be upfront and honest, and try to get a reduction in fines. They can also provide you with extended time to pay the ticket should you not have the funds immediately. But to fight it (testify/contest) will IMO be a losing battle that's a double edged sword as not only is it a waste of time but it may have the OP have to pay more than the face of the ticket if the JP is trying to make an example of him.

[Disoblige]

Originally posted by OTown
.. but it may have the OP have to pay more than the face of the ticket if the JP is trying to make an example of him.

This is not going to happen.

[Black Gts]

Originally posted by OTown


So you are saying that you would be fine if a cop pulled you over and gave you demerits instead of getting a straight fine (registered owner) ticket that doesnt affect your abstract? Am I reading your comment correctly? And how would that not make you slow down the next time you see crews on the side of the road?

I changed lanes as you're supposed too, I'm not arguing enforcement at all. I've been broken down on the side of highway 1 with pylons set up on a clear summer day, and seen how close people get and it was stupidity when the tow truck driver tried making a little extra room for himself. A proper crack down in needed, but yes imo the struggler that gets caught by a photo radar trap will have no idea why the ticket is double, and just pay.... Or make a thread on beyond lol. (not a shot at op)

[Maxt]

After I got a park plus ticket photo of my vehicle while it was driving at speed in a inner driving lane downtown, I am critical of all photo enforcement.... I don't think its cut and dried perfect as people think it is, there are probably a lot of bum tickets that just get paid so I like that people question the validity of a ticket..
https://www.calgaryparking.com/web/g...otoenforcement
"Prior to issuing a photo parking ticket every ‘potential violation’ is presented online to a ‘peace officer’ for detailed review. Officers confirm violations by verifying payment information with the observed vehicle information captured in the photographs to ensure no errors have occurred during any process."

I guess I got the guy with the white cane that day...

[OTown]

Originally posted by Maxt
After I got a park plus ticket photo of my vehicle while it was driving at speed in a inner driving lane downtown, I am critical of all photo enforcement.... I don't think its cut and dried perfect as people think it is, there are probably a lot of bum tickets that just get paid so I like that people question the validity of a ticket..
https://www.calgaryparking.com/web/g...otoenforcement
"Prior to issuing a photo parking ticket every ‘potential violation’ is presented online to a ‘peace officer’ for detailed review. Officers confirm violations by verifying payment information with the observed vehicle information captured in the photographs to ensure no errors have occurred during any process."

I guess I got the guy with the white cane that day...

Although park plus and photo radar are two completely different entities, I will say that no system is perfect and there will indeed be tickets that are handed out that deserve to be challenged in court .

Your parking ticket would be appropriate for an appeal from the sounds of it. There have been times where people have fought the tickets and ended up winning based on said error. No one is doubting that - That is why we have appeals process.

But the difference between this and the OP's ticket is that - from the sounds of it - everything on his ticket checks out. The vehicle was clearly moving , above the speed limit, in a prescribed zone. And that is all the camera has to prove.

IMO the only way out would be if the camera was either pointed at the wrong vehicle or improperly calibrated or it read the wrong plate. Other than that there is very little defense the OP can use to fight the ticket.

[Maxt]

Originally posted by OTown


Although park plus and photo radar are two completely different entities, I will say that no system is perfect and there will indeed be tickets that are handed out that deserve to be challenged in court .

Your parking ticket would be appropriate for an appeal from the sounds of it. There have been times where people have fought the tickets and ended up winning based on said error. No one is doubting that - That is why we have appeals process.

But the difference between this and the OP's ticket is that - from the sounds of it - everything on his ticket checks out. The vehicle was clearly moving , above the speed limit, in a prescribed zone. And that is all the camera has to prove.

IMO the only way out would be if the camera was either pointed at the wrong vehicle or improperly calibrated or it read the wrong plate. Other than that there is very little defense the OP can use to fight the ticket.

He was looking to see if the City hadn't followed what the City was supposed to do in the law in its application of the tool , I agree in his case,his interpretation was incorrect and the City had indeed covered that base. I just encourage people to at least vet the ticket instead of just flipping open the cheque book.
With Law enforcement using photo technology and us having to take their word to its accuracy, the only defense a person really has anymore, is photo technology itself, a dash camera is now a absolute must, so you can prove your gps speed, speed in relation to traffic, vehicle position in an intersection etc.
My parking ticket did get rescinded, what I didn't get and what I requested is how that ticket ever made it into the mail if the City has people double checking the photo systems operation. Getting it in writing that their technology and their staff do make errors was probably never going to happen. ..

[speedog]

Originally posted by Maxt

He was looking to see if the City hadn't followed what the City was supposed to do in the law in its application of the tool , I agree in his case,his interpretation was incorrect and the City had indeed covered that base. I just encourage people to at least vet the ticket instead of just flipping open the cheque book.

With Law enforcement using photo technology and us having to take their word to its accuracy, the only defense a person really has anymore, is photo technology itself, a dash camera is now a absolute must, so you can prove your gps speed, speed in relation to traffic, vehicle position in an intersection etc.

My parking ticket did get rescinded, what I didn't get and what I requested is how that ticket ever made it into the mail if the City has people double checking the photo systems operation. Getting it in writing that their technology and their staff do make errors was probably never going to happen. ..

I'm trying to understand what you're trying to achieve by getting such a letter. This system is not infallible, no different than any other system - there are humans involved in the system's design, setup and operation. So what, you get your letter and then what?

[Maxt]

Originally posted by speedog


I'm trying to understand what you're trying to achieve by getting such a letter. This system is not infallible, no different than any other system - there are humans involved in the system's design, setup and operation. So what, you get your letter and then what?

You can say the system is not infallible, but the city won't say that , understand yet?

[speedog]

So what.

Do you really think something would change if you got your letter?

[Maxt]

You don't think that if they have a hole in their system they should own up to it? That its their right to keep it secret? It is entirely possible they have been ticketing a lot of people that don't deserve the ticket.
When it happened, I was driving downtown a lot, I wanted to know what the circumstances were that allowed me to be ticketed erroneously in case I started getting the tickets in my work vehicle, or if people on here started getting a rash of park plus tickets. Is there no function in the technology to tell if the vehicle is moving? I was seeing the camera cars in close proximity 10-15 times in a work day.
Why that's such an unreasonable demand in your world, I don't know.

[speedog]

Even if they did own up to it to you, do you honestly think it would stop all mistakes?

[Maxt]

Originally posted by speedog
Even if they did own up to it to you, do you honestly think it would stop all mistakes?

Where the fuck are you going with this, if you like circles, go buy a hoola hoop.

[acedia]

You wanted an official letter from them admitting that they made a mistake on your ticket? Would you also have accepted their official apology on that same letter, or would you prefer that separate?