Poke Holes In My Speeding Ticket Defense

[Feruk]

My wife got a speeding ticket... so I'm headed to court. I think I've got a pretty good defense, but please poke holes in it.

Ticket is photo radar from stationary van for 12km/h over in a 50km/h zone. My defense is based on the peace officer not following guidelines in regards to a proper public awareness strategy. I plan to cross-examine him and not testify. I am challenging the peace officer's right to take the ticket rather than the contents of the ticket.

1: http://www.transportation.alberta.ca...ementSigns.pdf
From this document: If a municipality has or will be implementing photo enforcement within the community, that municipality is required to follow the 'Automated Traffic Enforcement Technology Guidelines' of providing public awareness.

As a public awareness requirement, signage must be installed to inform drivers of photo enforcement locations. The sign permit issued by Alberta Transportation for the installation of these signs should be with the municipality and not with their photo enforcement contractor.

2: The guidelines: https://www.solgps.alberta.ca/progra...pt%202014).pdf

The guidelines seem like they talk more about speed-on-green cameras, but section 5 about "public awareness" still seems to discuss signage. However, on entrance to the community, and all the way to where I got the ticket, there is no signage.

3. I believe they can also achieve disclosure via publically posting. So on the Calgary.ca website, I found their disclosure (streets and communities for September). Link: http://newsroom.calgary.ca/news/sept...ment-locations

The street and community where I got the ticket isn't disclosed.

My argument: The officer was not following proper set out guidelines at the time the picture was taken. Specifically, he failed to ensure public disclosure as there was (a) no sign posted, and (b) no public notice given.

I read through the TSA and Police Act this morning, but found nothing that can help or hinder my case. Can I win? What are easy counter-arguments?

[lasimmon]

I find in favor of the plaintiff. Please pay on your way out.

Where did you get the ticket?

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by Feruk
My wife got a speeding ticket...

Pics?

[kenny]

The photo radar signs are posted on every road entering Calgary.

[Brent.ff]

Guess the fact that a community is not a municipality, they only have to posts signs at the primary access roads to the municipality. I bet there is a sign on macleod, deerfoot, etc that covers their bases...

If one thing, you found a good defence for if you're busted in a speed-transition zone (e.g., the stupid shit on Macleod to Dunbow)

[Feruk]

Originally posted by Brent.ff
Guess the fact that a community is not a municipality, they only have to posts signs at the primary access roads to the municipality. I bet there is a sign on macleod, deerfoot, etc that covers their bases...

Then why would they be posted all over the city? Example:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.02377...2!8i6656?hl=en

I think it's community entrances.

Originally posted by lasimmon
Where did you get the ticket?

Parkdale. And I got two in the same place.

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
Pics?

Haha crap. I mean I got the ticket... yeah.

[lasimmon]

I don't think its a solid defense and you are probably misinterpretting the rules.

Also I think its a waste of time, but I digress

[Brent.ff]

Just cause it's posted multiple times within the municipality, doesn't mean it's not covered by being posted at the major thoroughfares?

[killramos]

They have put a photo radar van in front of my house before ( the little white community safety one). There certainly wasn't a sign on my street or anything telling me it was there.

Also if the vans are manned do they count as automated? Like if there is a guy in the front seat who reviews what the computer is telling him while things are happening that's not really automated.

Automated feels more like the Speed on Green cameras at intersections etc. Which are always marked.

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by lasimmon
I don't think its a solid defense and you are probably misinterpretting the rules.

Also I think its a waste of time, but I digress

+1. How much is the ticket even for? $500? I hate photo radar and the revenue aspect of enforcing, but I'd just pay my 'speed tax' and move the hell on with my life

[blitz]

Originally posted by lasimmon
I find in favor of the plaintiff. Please pay on your way out.

Yup, that's how it's going to go. This is traffic court, not a John Grisham novel.

[Mibz]

You're focusing on the Provincial laws which, AFAIK, aren't going to apply here. "Community", in this case, doesn't mean what you think it means. I mean, yeah, most traffic laws are provincial, but this is one of those cases where I'm pretty sure both Calgary and Edmonton have very different laws from the rest of Alberta.

Look for City of Calgary by-laws, because I can pretty much guarantee that there's something in there which will override the things you're quoting.

[OTown]

Why cant people just take responsibility for their ticket and move on? I mean if its an obvious fault of the officer and you have proof of that then you maybe have a case that's worth fighting. Not directed at the OP but this is kind of grasping at straws.

FYI photo radar tickets are actually quite nice compared to a cop pulling you over. They have no demerit points associated, and no marks on driving record.

I just see so much moaning and bitching about photo radar but really... If you speed consistently its going to catch up to you no matter what. Its much much better than to have an actual cop handing you a ticket with demerits and associated costs (insurance, etc) coupled with it.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Is there even an officer involved? I thought photo radar vehicles weren't even manned by officers. To me they just look like regular people reading books and letting the machine do it's thing. I didn't think they were plain clothes officers though.

[black300]

Going 12 km/h more than posted speed limit is excessive but not for a photo radar ticket.

There are no demerits and ticket shouldn't be more than $170.

I think it will be a waste of time on your end.

On another note: I saw a photo radar vehicle parked on memorial drive after 14st. There was a guy standing 500 meters before the radar with a huge sign saying "Radar" and an arrow point in the direction.

Wonder if it just a homeless guy who gets tips from drivers who would have got nailed if they did not adjust their speed.

[Agent_Oorange]

Originally posted by kenny
The photo radar signs are posted on every road entering Calgary.

I'm pretty sure this covers them and you are mis-interpreting the guideline docs.

Isn't the time you are going to take off work going to be more than the $100 or whatever it is fine? Seems like a losing proposition to me given there are no demerits.

[gwill]

See the JP at the court house and give them your defence. You can do that before the actual date written on your ticket.... If it's an actual defence the JP will tell you. Or they'll offer to reduce the price by $40 just for speaking with them.

[Feruk]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Really though, if your contribution is to tell me to pay the ticket and move on, please move onto another thread. Already seen that advice in just about every thread dedicated to tickets (no matter how absurd) and I still decided not to pay it. Don't worry about me taking time off work or that it's only $120, that's really not your concern, or the point of this thread. I've already pled not guilty, so going to trial.

Is anyone aware of another location where I can get rules and regulations around where they can place photo radar? Google has not been kind. Also haven't been very successful scouring through Calgary bylaws. There must be something set out...

[Black Gts]

I imagine wherever they want to set up. I recently seen a truck all blue and red flashing in the left hand shoulder of stoney, pull over a lane and keep going and as I'm passing he's alone and a radar unit. I haven't got a ticket yet, hopefully he's only pointing at the left lane but that's a cash grab and not at all about the safety they spout.

[rage2]

I've always been curious about this defense. Let me know how it goes.