Extra fees on gas and electricity bill.

[suntan]

Originally posted by Cos


You think that is the only 'strange' part. You should see all the other companies they own and subcontract back to themselves.

There's nothing wrong with that. Regular corporations do that all the time - employees are valued out at some cost and charged back to a business unit.

It's an easy way of figuring out how much a project cost.

[suntan]

Originally posted by Cos


You think that is the only 'strange' part. You should see all the other companies they own and subcontract back to themselves. At least it is supplementing your property taxes. I pay Enmax as my retailer and I don't live in the City. So when people complain that I use transit or park somewhere and 'I don't pay City property tax' I don't think people realize how much Enmax subsidizes taxation in Calgary.

EPCOR does the same thing. Same with Red Deer. Actually the funniest part is there is something called a 'franchise fee' that everyone pays. That is a flow through from the municipality. So in Airdrie, the City of Airdrie charges Fortis a fee which is then flowed through on the electrical bill. Calgary does the same, so Calgary charges a fee for itself to run its own utility, whos profits go back to the City.

No, I completely understand that Enmax provides revenue to the city. I don't think the councilors do, and certainly not our mayor.

[Cos]

.

[suntan]

Originally posted by Cos


I didn't mean for it to sound like there is anything 'wrong' with it. It is just funny how when I was a contractor, we would be competing against Enmax's own in house 'separate' engineering firm.

Well yeah, that's exactly why they cost out their own employees, so that comparisons can be made.

[Cos]

.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Seth1968


Is "net earnings" not income minus expenses?

Either way, that doesn't negate my fundamental argument.

You are correct:

But here's 2014 numbers:

Revenue: $3.3B
Net Earning: $155M

Other than electronic stores, it's going to be tough to find a business operating at a 4.7% margin.

Now, how they spend that $3.1B and if there are any funny business going on in there is anyone's guess.

ATCO used to have a wing call ATCO I-Tek and it's how ATCO funnel money out of the utility business and avoid the regulators. That has seen been sold to Wipro, Indian outsourcing firm but it also awarded Wipro with a $1.1B contract to pay for that purchase.

There will always be rules and regulations and there will always be business trying to get away with things and operate in the gray areas.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Xtrema


You are correct:

But here's 2014 numbers:

Revenue: $3.3B
Net Earning: $155M

Other than electronic stores, it's going to be tough to find a business operating at a 4.7% margin.

Except a PS2 doesn't compare to the necessities of life.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Seth1968


Except a PS2 doesn't compare to the necessities of life.

So utilities should returned to be government operated? We all know who well our government works right?

I think right now it's a good mix. You are basically throwing a few bucks out there for private enterprises to find the most efficient way to operate as possible.

[suntan]

In that case the CoC should sell their ownership in Enmax.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by suntan
There's nothing wrong with that. Regular corporations do that all the time - employees are valued out at some cost and charged back to a business unit.

It's an easy way of figuring out how much a project cost.

From what I've seen, it makes it much easier to "bloat" costs and hide expenses/the true costs of doing business.

[Seth1968]

It has now become obvious that Albertans are being screwed by the oil and electricity industry. I trolled such from my original post, and more specifically my comment of "legal fraud".

The REAL question is, how much do you bend over for the one that feeds you?

[suntan]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


From what I've seen, it makes it much easier to "bloat" costs and hide expenses/the true costs of doing business.

Bloating costs hides expenses. Gotcha.

[ExtraSlow]

I'm still not sure what Seth's argument is.
Are you mad because the total cost of the services is too high, or just that they choose to break out the individual components of the cost?

This thread has gone to shit, so how about this shift in topic? How long before we see peak pricing for electricity? Honestly, I think that's a great solution to the issue of power shortages in the summer when dickheads like me are running the AC full blast every evening. Make the marginal user pay for the marginal capacity.

[Cos]

.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Seth1968
The REAL question is, how much do you bend over for the one that feeds you?

I still think for a complicated system, ours is ran pretty fair. Have you even checked what BC and Ontario pay for utilities?

You don't like the capitalist system we got, yet hate the government, self generation cost way too much and not efficient enough. What's your solution?

[rage2]

Sell Enmax, make it truly private, pay the same price, and pay more property taxes.

Or, make Enmax non profit. All customers pay lower fees. Then pay more property tax. Airdrie and other cities served by Enmax profit.

[Unknown303]

Originally posted by rage2
Sell Enmax, make it truly private, pay the same price, and pay more property taxes.

Or, make Enmax non profit. All customers pay lower fees. Then pay more property tax. Airdrie and other cities served by Enmax profit.

This is no place for logic

[DENZILDON]

Originally posted by rage2
Sell Enmax, make it truly private, pay the same price, and pay more property taxes.

Or, make Enmax non profit. All customers pay lower fees. Then pay more property tax. Airdrie and other cities served by Enmax profit.

Actually Rage has a good idea here but if that happens all other retailers will complain and will probably take deregulation out of the equation.

One thing to note with all this cost talk is that after being in the industry for so long, it's the first time I've seen electricity prices per kWh so cheap.

[suntan]

Originally posted by rage2
Sell Enmax, make it truly private, pay the same price, and pay more property taxes.

Or, make Enmax non profit. All customers pay lower fees. Then pay more property tax. Airdrie and other cities served by Enmax profit.

Alright then, why not make every city service like this, and dispense with property tax altogether, or make it very minimal?

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by suntan
Alright then, why not make every city service like this, and dispense with property tax altogether, or make it very minimal?

So you want a for profit fire fighter and police force?

Or you want a utility to operate as a wing of government?

I think rich or poor, you will need the same police and fire services.

But everyone's utilities need are different and can be adjusted to your need. In that case, private sector serve it much better.