Has your office/company laid people off? PART 4

[adam c]

Originally posted by vengie


I've never understood why people are willing to destroy their families because of work. Ensure your job fits YOUR life, however it may look.

Because at the end of the day most people need their job in order to provide for their family and a lot of employers take advantage of that fact, especially in Calgary

Sure I could quit my job today but with the economy and the amount of people laid off in my field it would be tough to get something else.

[dandia89]

for the more experienced folks in O&G. Are there a lot of companies that only expect 40 hr weeks? every where i've worked, it's common knowledge that you work more than 40 hrs regardless of workload. i see a ton of companies artificially showing support for work/life balance, but they still expect you to do 10+ hr days

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Disoblige]

^^ Is that really how it works, or is everyone around you is pissed at you for doing that?

Just wondering haha, maybe everyone is doing that too in your environment. But I never really seen this before in an O&G office.

[haggis88]

Originally posted by adam c


Because at the end of the day most people need their job in order to provide for their family and a lot of employers take advantage of that fact, especially in North America

FTFY

It's true though...

I couldn't afford a house in the city, a vehicle (one between two of us) and live comfortably with a bit in savings if I took some minimum wage job at a random store

I'd definitely take a wage cut to come out of the field and be at home every night, but without moving out of Calgary or back to the UK (which I'd do in a heartbeat if the other half would) then I'm pretty much stuck

[Sugarphreak]

...

[bjstare]

Originally posted by Disoblige
^^ Is that really how it works, or is everyone around you is pissed at you for doing that?

Just wondering haha, maybe everyone is doing that too in your environment. But I never really seen this before in an O&G office.

I may be wrong, but he works in EPC not O&G if I recall correctly. Definitely a distinct difference in some aspects of those sectors.


And to answer your question, other people probably aren't happy with it. On my project, there's an engineer who works as a contractor, is only in part time, and it's a PITA. No such thing as a short-notice meeting, need 1 day in advance (minumum) which, in some cases, sucks. None of us will tell him that it's actually a detriment, since it's not a hill to die on, but not everyone is cool with it.

EDIT: RE: keeping hours down since they can't justify a full time employee - this is absolutely a valid point.

[dirtsniffer]

Minimum wage should not give you a middle class lifestyle.

Mimimum wage should afford you:
a rented room and utilities
public transportation
walmart clothes
Groceries
some for savings

700 for rent and utilities
200 transportation
400 food
200 clothes and entertainment
200 savings

$15 dollars an hour should work. lol. i guess that is more than minimum wage currently, my budget could be trimmed, it's been a while since I have had to deal with that situation.

[mr2mike]

Originally posted by sputnik


Because at the end of the day many care more about the things they want to buy than their families.

I bet there'd be a lot of unhappy spouses and family around if you weren't keeping new vehicles under lease in the driveway, MK purses to change out the LV 2013 ones and the kids in every sport they want with new PS4's in their rooms, etc.
You're a resource to them. This is the North American mentality.

[spike98]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
Minimum wage should not give you a middle class lifestyle.

Mimimum wage should afford you:
a rented room and utilities
public transportation
walmart clothes
Groceries
some for savings

700 for rent and utilities
200 transportation
400 food
200 clothes and entertainment
200 savings

$15 dollars an hour should work. lol. i guess that is more than minimum wage currently, my budget could be trimmed, it's been a while since I have had to deal with that situation.

No.

The concept of a living minimum wage is asinine. A person should be able to afford to live in a shared setting with minimum wage. Roommates or significant others.

These minimum wage jobs are for students looking for some pocket cash or stay at home mommy looking for some shoe money.

If you are serious about becoming self sustaining, you should be serious about your work. Not taking a shit job and expecting to have "entertainment" in your budget. The market should dictate the positions worth, not the government.

Back on topic...

Originally posted by Disoblige
^^ Is that really how it works, or is everyone around you is pissed at you for doing that?

Just wondering haha, maybe everyone is doing that too in your environment. But I never really seen this before in an O&G office.

Im in gas/utilities and thats how it works for our office. Its a very free atmosphere (baring your job is being done and your meeting deadlines)

[lasimmon]

Originally posted by Disoblige
^^ Is that really how it works, or is everyone around you is pissed at you for doing that?

Just wondering haha, maybe everyone is doing that too in your environment. But I never really seen this before in an O&G office.

i find at most O&G shops its a little bit of both. Ill work 10 hour days from time to time but I also can leave early, go for drinks etc, time to time.

[killramos]

Every O&G firm has always been very flexible work type schedules. From Junior to Large International, 15,000 boe to 200,0000, 150 employees to 3,000. For better or worse.

Want to grab a coffee with a buddy? Go for it.

Occasional 2 hour lunch? Who gives a shit.

Roll in after 8:30? NBD just don't be leaving at 3.

If there is nothing for you to do no one is forcing you to work 40 a week.

Generally speaking your office hours should fall within 9-3 so that you are reasonably schedule-able for meetings.

But at the end of the day get your shit done. If something important comes up that is bigger than you and you are holding other people up then stick around a few extra hours, come in on the weekend. And don't complain about it either.

Now not every place in town is like that, that's for sure. But it really just depends on the type of culture you fit in with.

Flexible work scenarios require you to do a lot of your own management, your own project scheduling, and ultimately discipline yourself. You need to be as flexible as they are when it comes down to it.

If you can't handle that then you should probably work at a far more stricter environment where you are babysat every step of the way.

[dandia89]

i think it's quite appropriate in crunch times to be putting longer hours, but should it be the norm? I see posts saying that work should fit into your life, but how often is that ever true? You may put in the quality of work, but if you leave at 3pm to pick up your kid from day care (or whatever) the perception in your office is that you're a slacker and you're not doing the work.

There seems like an obligation to be seen at work for extended time to be perceived as a hard worker. But how often is that congruent to a lifestyle of most people (i.e. work/life balance)

[killramos]

Putting in more time than average will always look good on you as an employee. It shows that you are serious about your work and aren't there to just put in the minimum. That doesn't mean its required.

Now leaving every day at 3 to pick up your kid, that is only a problem if you also decide to come in at 8 am after dropping them off

No one faults anyone who is known to get their shit done. I could see people getting irritated if they are expected to pick up your slack daily because you have chosen a certain schedule.

[spike98]

Originally posted by dandia89
I see posts saying that work should fit into your life, but how often is that ever true? You may put in the quality of work, but if you leave at 3pm to pick up your kid from day care (or whatever) the perception in your office is that you're a slacker and you're not doing the work.

The last bit there is key IMO. My hours are regularly 8-4 with an hour lunch. Fridays i leave at 3pm. There are days where the kid is sick, or our childcare requires me to leave earlier to pick up my boy from school. I come and go as i please essentially.

However, i produce exceptional work, on time, and exceeding the expectations of my boss and the executive leadership. When required, i will hop on a plane at a moments notice and fly across the country if the job requires it. I put my all into my job, and in turn, the job affords me the freedom i get. My peers notice this as well and are afforded the same.

IMO i have seen a shift in the industry from time based expectations to quality based expectations.

[dandia89]

Originally posted by spike98


IMO i have seen a shift in the industry from time based expectations to quality based expectations.

this is comforting to hear. i'm still very junior in my last two roles, so I still have that time obligation and quality expectation to excel in. I think it's good to know down the line my work will be valued more than my time in office.

[spike98]

Originally posted by dandia89


this is comforting to hear. i'm still very junior in my last two roles, so I still have that time obligation and quality expectation to excel in. I think it's good to know down the line my work will be valued more than my time in office.

Just be that guy that everyone can rely on to get things done on time and produce a quality product and the rest comes.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by dirtsniffer
550 for rent and utilities
100 transportation
400 food
200 clothes

FTFY

That said, it's still $1300/mth. And most minimum wage jobs won't give you more than 20hr/week. So even at $15/hr, you barely get there. Having 2 20hr/week job is pretty tough to juggle.

Superstore is now full of laid off people and mgmt now can now give everyone less hours to maintain coverage. They know even if a few found a real job and quit, they won't be left high and dry.

So yeah, I don't think minimum wage is anywhere close to living wages, even if you cut out all the fat in the budget.

[blitz]

Originally posted by killramos
Every O&G firm has always been very flexible work type schedules. From Junior to Large International, 15,000 boe to 200,0000, 150 employees to 3,000. For better or worse.

Want to grab a coffee with a buddy? Go for it.

Occasional 2 hour lunch? Who gives a shit.

Roll in after 8:30? NBD just don't be leaving at 3.

If there is nothing for you to do no one is forcing you to work 40 a week.

Generally speaking your office hours should fall within 9-3 so that you are reasonably schedule-able for meetings.

But at the end of the day get your shit done. If something important comes up that is bigger than you and you are holding other people up then stick around a few extra hours, come in on the weekend. And don't complain about it either.

Now not every place in town is like that, that's for sure. But it really just depends on the type of culture you fit in with.

Flexible work scenarios require you to do a lot of your own management, your own project scheduling, and ultimately discipline yourself. You need to be as flexible as they are when it comes down to it.

If you can't handle that then you should probably work at a far more stricter environment where you are babysat every step of the way.

Seriously man, you've only worked at one O&G company.

I've seen a variety of different mentalities and it can vary drastically by department within the same company. Some are still real sweatshops.

[vengie]

Originally posted by mr2mike


I bet there'd be a lot of unhappy spouses and family around if you weren't keeping new vehicles under lease in the driveway, MK purses to change out the LV 2013 ones and the kids in every sport they want with new PS4's in their rooms, etc.
You're a resource to them. This is the North American mentality.

You my friend are hanging out with the wrong people if that is their mentality.