So, what would the Consecutives have done differently?

[codetrap]

.

[Thaco]

i think thats the big thing, not much would be different, the problem isn't isolated to alberta, and itsnt fixed overnight by a few people... just an easy scapegoat.

[Ca_Silvia13]

Why have this aimed only at the Conservatives? Why not tailor it to if the WR party was elected. In my opinion, I still think they are strong enough to be voted in next time. I mean the Conservatives in this province barely have a party anymore.

As for you questions, I do believe we wouldn't have been hit with as high of tax increases. Such as Sin taxes, gas taxes etc.

[ickyflex]

Probably wouldn't have raised corporate tax (this year anyways)
Wouldn't introduce Carbon Tax of Shame Alberta publicly
Wouldn't have done a Royalty Review.
Spending Cuts (Cuts the bs that is the public sector)

All 4 of those I think would have a pretty good impact on the outlook for Alberta.

Note I'm all for the 3 policies above that were implemented, just not at this point in time.

[Kloubek]

I truly believe that we are partially in this situation because the Conservatives failed to diversify the province, and failed to properly give us a rainy day fund for times like this. Yes, it made them look good while they were in power, but now the NDP is paying the price while oil is at a low and the economy sucks.

The fact is, peeps, that it doesn't matter who would be in power right now... we'd be in the same economic mess. Naturally, the opposition would like to paint it as the NDP's fault, but it simply isn't. Not to say this government has made all the right decisions, but when I hear rhetoric from people like O'Leary, it's rarely backed up with a game plan of how things could have been done better.

As to the question of how things would play out - probably not favourably. Alberta is certainly a Conservative province at heart, and although I doubt anything would get better under the Conservatives, Albertans would probably vote as such just because of their biases, as well as a hope something would improve. In fact, most of the NDP rule will be at the worst possible time for them, and will probably ensure Conservative rule for years to come.

[JRSC00LUDE]

I think they would have operated in an unbroken and logical sequence, continuously.

[Feruk]

I think the Conservatives would go after unions a lot harder... that's about it.

There would've been a tax increase, they just would've called it something else.

[pheoxs]

Not a lot.

People miss-judge how quickly things move in the government. The budgets between the PC and the NDP weren't substantially different because a lot of that is set by what needs to be done. Operational expenses, servicing debt, contractual obligations etc are all basically set in stone.

Alberta is hurting because of oil and natural gas prices falling not because of any government policy in the last 6 months. The impact of the royalty review, carbon taxes, etc will all come in a few years as they start being implemented and companies adjust to them.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by pheoxs
Alberta is hurting because of oil and natural gas prices falling not because of any government policy in the last 6 months. The impact of the royalty review, carbon taxes, etc will all come in a few years as they start being implemented and companies adjust to them.

I don't think this is entirely true. I've heard the uncertainty and continued postponement of the royalty review is causing some issues.

[Weapon_R]

The issue here is confidence. No one has any confidence right now and that is disastrous for the economy and it all has to do with the bizarre policies of the NDP government.

When an economy slows down, a government should not increase taxes, introduce taxes, increase wages and discuss royalty reviews. There are many business owners who refuse to hire because they can't and won't pay $15 an hour for entry level workers. My employer is worried that he will have to increase staff wages as min wage approaches some of our admin staff pay. The wait-and-see attitude of investors is killing the economy because everyone wants to wait until the NDP clarifies its policies or leaves office.

The government has no bearing on oil prices but it is doing everything contrary to what a government should be doing to offset the recession with consumer spending. I can't count how many times I hear people say they aren't buying a home/car/anything because the economy is crashing, when many havent experienced any negative effects. The government has a direct ability to influence consumer confidence and this is where the NDP fails so miserably IMO.

The PCs were always great at keeping confidence high and that's why previous recessions didn't have nearly the same impact.

[pheoxs]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


I don't think this is entirely true. I've heard the uncertainty and continued postponement of the royalty review is causing some issues.

Lots of places say this because its a political move, but in such a short window now much has changed right this moment. Facilities are still operating, EPC companies are still working on existing projects they had before because the contracts are already drawn up. Companies that are spending tens of millions on facilities didn't go 'oh wait hang on cancel everything!', they're maintaining status quo until things become clearer.

Don't get me wrong, it will absolutely affect Alberta, but in the ~7 months since the election, it will have had a minimal effect on the state of the economy compared to the actual prices of oil & gas.

[Xtrema]

NDP: Carbon tax
PC: PST (they won't say much during election but you know it would have happened)

I prefer: Neither but shit gotta get paid somehow.

NDP: Corporate tax increase
PC: Health Care Premium

I prefer: Health Care Premium but operate in the same old way instead of a tax

NDP: Royalty Review
PC: Leave it alone

I prefer: Review. I think we took too little at the top end. It's a bad time for it but it gotta be done.

NDP: Income tax hike
PC: Income tax hike

I prefer: Since I don't make enough to make a difference, I'm indifferent on the subject.


Now neither government will able to predict the energy market. But PC would have saved a few companies and jobs and prevent projects going to Sask. But in an overall scheme of things, this downturn is the worse since 80s and I still think it's better than the NEP 80's crash. Neither can do much on this front.

If election is called right now, NDP would lose because people are losing jobs and inflation is out of control. Both NDP can't really controlled but will be blamed for. Since last time it was a 3 way split in popular vote, given current state of PC party, we probably will get a WR minority or majority.

Whoever we get, it'll be the same shit. A change will bring in bunch of noobs that doesn't know any better and rock the boat and make it worse. Any meaningful change won't take effect for 2-3 years at a minimum. People can't just turn on dime like they think they can with elections.

I would love to see more union busting from NDP which they already show they won't do (not big surprise). My support for NDP wasn't great to start with and has been trending down. What they do in the next session will really matter.

[spikerS]

So, the Fraser institute conducted a survey of investors about why they are holding off investing in the province...

According to report co-author Dr. Ross McKitrick, professor of economics at Guelph University, it’s being caused by uncertainty around the new NDP government and its policies.

And what everyone has been telling the NDP from the start, but they refuse to listen...

McKitrick says the government needs to make some decisions fast because as this survey shows, as long as things are up in the air, Alberta is going to keep taking hits.

“The Alberta government does need to be careful about the kind of perceptions it’s creating with so many major policy changes on the table, it could take years to win over the trust of investors again,” he cautioned.

http://www.660news.com/2016/01/14/su...about-alberta/

And yes, if the NDP decided to try to get a mandate from the people in Alberta by holding an election tomorrow, the government would change pretty quickly.

[msommers]

Originally posted by ickyflex
Probably wouldn't have raised corporate tax (this year anyways)
Wouldn't introduce Carbon Tax of Shame Alberta publicly
Wouldn't have done a Royalty Review.
Spending Cuts (Cuts the bs that is the public sector)

All 4 of those I think would have a pretty good impact on the outlook for Alberta.

Note I'm all for the 3 policies above that were implemented, just not at this point in time.

Agreed on the first 3 items that the Cons would have done.

The last one would be a salary freeze at best. Or cuts to frontline workers which is not what is needed.

Originally posted by Xtrema
NDP: Carbon tax
PC: PST (they won't say much during election but you know it would have happened)

I prefer: Neither but shit gotta get paid somehow.

NDP: Corporate tax increase
PC: Health Care Premium

I prefer: Health Care Premium but operate in the same old way instead of a tax

NDP: Royalty Review
PC: Leave it alone

I prefer: Review. I think we took too little at the top end. It's a bad time for it but it gotta be done.

NDP: Income tax hike
PC: Income tax hike

I prefer: Since I don't make enough to make a difference, I'm indifferent on the subject.


Now neither government will able predict the energy market. But PC would have saved a few companies and jobs and prevent projects going to Sask. But in an overall scheme of things, this downturn is the worse since 80s and I still think it's better than the NEP 80's crash.

If election is called right now, NDP would lose because people are losing jobs and inflation is out of control. Both NDP can't really controlled but will be blamed for. Since last time it was a 3 way split in popular vote, given current state of PC party, we probably will get a WR minority or majority.

Whoever we get, it'll be the same shit. A change will bring in bunch of noobs that doesn't know any better and rock the boat and make it worse. Any meaningful change won't take effect for 2-3 years at a minimum. People can't just turn on dime like they think they can with elections.

I would love to see more union busting from NDP which they already show they won't do (not big surprise). My support for NDP wasn't great to start with and has been trending down. What they do in the next session will really matter.

Well said.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by pheoxs
Lots of places say this because its a political move, but in such a short window now much has changed right this moment.

Not what I've heard from multiple sources. It's been expressed to me by a number of individuals that's it's very difficult to raise capital right now and the primary reason being given is the uncertainty our NDP gov't is creating. I'm not sitting in these board rooms, it's just what's being relayed to me.

[94boosted]

Originally posted by ickyflex
Probably wouldn't have raised corporate tax (this year anyways)
Wouldn't introduce Carbon Tax of Shame Alberta publicly
Wouldn't have done a Royalty Review.
Spending Cuts (Cuts the bs that is the public sector)

+ No Bill 6, addition of the Healthcare Premium and perhaps no hike on sin taxes and tax on gasoline

Originally posted by Weapon_R
The issue here is confidence. No one has any confidence right now and that is disastrous for the economy and it all has to do with the bizarre policies of the NDP government.

When an economy slows down, a government should not increase taxes, introduce taxes, increase wages and discuss royalty reviews. There are many business owners who refuse to hire because they can't and won't pay $15 an hour for entry level workers. My employer is worried that he will have to increase staff wages as min wage approaches some of our admin staff pay. The wait-and-see attitude of investors is killing the economy because everyone wants to wait until the NDP clarifies its policies or leaves office.

The government has no bearing on oil prices but it is doing everything contrary to what a government should be doing to offset the recession with consumer spending. I can't count how many times I hear people say they aren't buying a home/car/anything because the economy is crashing, when many havent experienced any negative effects. The government has a direct ability to influence consumer confidence and this is where the NDP fails so miserably IMO.

The PCs were always great at keeping confidence high and that's why previous recessions didn't have nearly the same impact.

This, this and a little bit more of this. Well said.

[suntan]

PCs and WR would've done some layoffs as well. WR especially would be trying to change existing union contracts.

No PST. Not a chance.

Definitely no royalty review.

[suntan]

Originally posted by Kloubek
I truly believe that we are partially in this situation because the Conservatives failed to diversify the province, and failed to properly give us a rainy day fund for times like this.

Has anyone wondered why the province had so much debt when Klein came into power?

Anybody remember Getty?

When he was in power, the province was in the toilet economically. So the PCs borrowed and spent like crazy on things like infrastructure and diversifying the economy.

Does anyone think that really helped?

[revelations]

100% agree that the PCs had to go, but the NDP isnt helping the situation any by dithering during this time. The quicker the numbers come out, the quicker the analysts can crunch the numbers for companies to get a idea of if/when to invest.

All I can say that were still light years ahead of the BC NDP, which rolled through in the 90s without a care in the world for sound economic policy. It was all about back room, union dealing.

500 million dollars pissed away into fast ferries (would have come close to the price of a bridge at that time).

[sexualbanana]

Besides being a new tax, why does everyone seem to be opposed to the carbon tax? I thought from previous threads, people were in support of a consumption tax.