School me on winches - Questions about Boat Rails system

[ExtraSlow]

So with Synthetic, I've been reading that it's recommended to replace it every 12 months. Seems crazy, do people actually do that?

[carson blocks]

Haha I'm probably just cranky about ratings given my last week and tie straps. Tied down a 1700lb machine with 4x1500lb working load straps and busted two. Switched to 2 3300lb working load straps from PA (advertised as 10,000lb straps) and still managed to break one.

I still think the cable is way too cheesy for the application. 1/4" is apparently generally less than half as strong as 3/8" according to http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wi...h-d_1518.html. Also, I can't help but think that I'd rather have the new synthetic cable in that application, even if it took some re-engineering to make it fit properly.

[Sugarphreak]

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[ExtraSlow]

anything larger diameter than 3/8 and he's looking at a bigger winch to handle this size on the drum. Although shit, maybe that's the way he should go anyway. New winch, new fairlead, and new synthetic cable.

While we're talking theoretical though, if the load is what I've calculated, is he safer going with a less powerful winch and stronger cable/line, so that it's impossible to snap the cable?

When "engineering" a system from scratch, what do you prefer to be the weak link?

[Sugarphreak]

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[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
When "engineering" a system from scratch, what do you prefer to be the weak link?

So, because I haven't had enough abuse recently, I thought I would revisit this topic. I still haven't seen a consensus answer to the above question.

I had a chance to inspect this setup recently, and snapped some pics. Firstly, this is the winch data plate, can anyone identify this winch and it's capacity?

» Click image for larger version

Secondly, I identified the source of much of the awful racket when the winch is in use. The winch itself is mounted to a steel square tubing frame, firmly bolted into concrete, but the fairlead is mounted to the flimsy and non-reinforced sheetmetal housing. I'm convinced 90% of the sound is coming from the sheetmetal bouncing around.

» Click image for larger version

» Click image for larger version

Also, turns out I was overestimating the weight of the boat. Apparently, it's around 4000 lbs for the boat, plus the trailer. When it's on the highway, with a heavier trailer with tires and brakes and shit, it's around 5500 lbs. I'm now sure that it's under 5000 lbs including trailer on the rails. Not that the math seems to be our biggest problem in this thread . . .

[mr2mike]

Could try some thick rubber between fairlead and sheetmetal like rubber washers. Or turn the fairlead around as the top roller looks less corroded and might slide a bit better.

When they want lessons on surfing let me know. Avail. Fri through Sun.
Got my own wake surfboard and wakeskate.

[ExtraSlow]

Blast from the past, anything better than a warn M8000 winch? 12V power or 120v, but current 12V from an optima yellow top continuously charged by Noco charger.

Any better alternative? Boat is less than 5000lbs, and rolls smoothly up a slope less than 30%. Atual top tension probably ~1500lbs.

Quieter is better. Must "hold" when it stops.

[The_Rural_Juror]

I wonder what SugarPhreak said.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Is the only issue with the noise of the current unit? The M8000 has adequate cable length and pulling power? Because really that's a great high-quality winch that looks to be in pristine shape. All winches are noisy, kinda comes with the territory.

If you really want to quiet it down as much as practicable, switch to a synthetic line with a Hawse fairlead. I assume the winch has the stock 100' of 5/16 cable on it, so replace it with 100' of 5/16 synthetic rope. The synthetic line (MasterPull Classic for example) will have a higher break rating (12,300lb) than the steel cable of the same diameter (9,200lb). If you're paranoid about breakage, you can load the M8000 with 80' of 3/8 line (as per Warn specs) or go with the pricier Superline.

You could also find a more solid way to mount the fairlead to the winch frame and add a bunch of sound deadening to the box.

[ExtraSlow]

Current unit no longer holds boat when you stop. That's the issue. Noise mostly related to that stupid metal enclosure box. Maybe some dynamat on it would help.

[AndyL]

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Current unit no longer holds boat when you stop. That's the issue. Noise mostly related to that stupid metal enclosure box. Maybe some dynamat on it would help.

That sounds like a maintenance issue. The m8000 is probably better than most other choices - definitely worth a couple hours to teardown, clean, lube and reassemble.

[ExtraSlow]

Problem is the owner of that property isn't going to do any thing like that, and I'm probably not going to be there until next year. What is the brake mechanism in a winch anyway? What holds it when your finger is off the button?

[AndyL]

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Problem is the owner of that property isn't going to do any thing like that, and I'm probably not going to be there until next year. What is the brake mechanism in a winch anyway? What holds it when your finger is off the button?

Generally gears. Worm or planetary gearset prevents motion unless driven.

My hunch on the m8000 is the freewheel release isn't fully engaged/disengaged, seem to recall that came up on a few 4x4s, it was engaged but had slip when you really loaded it up. Kind of why I preferred the dog clutch setup on the superwinch.

[ExtraSlow]

Well, should sell for okay money to someone who knows. About these things then.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

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Problem is the owner of that property isn't going to do any thing like that, and I'm probably not going to be there until next year. What is the brake mechanism in a winch anyway? What holds it when your finger is off the button?

There is a one-way brake inside the drum that engages when the winch is in any mode other than free-spool. If the winch isn't holding the boat, then the brake assembly likely needs to be replaced. Downside is that it's not a particularly cheap assembly.

I might be interested if he wants to sell it as a fixer-upper.

[ExtraSlow]

I will let you know when it's for sale.