Putin is pointing and laughing right now.
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Putin is pointing and laughing right now.
Cocoa $11,000 per ton.
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Putin is the big winner since 2016.Originally Posted by ZenOps
This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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Putin my ass!
Wait what?
I think we're going to need a bit more detail.This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show QuoteDo you really think everything was going to be perfect at a flick of a switch? The claims you make are cheap attacks.
Lets put it into perspective. From the UK joining the common market in the 1970's. It was a gradual merger of the Uk joining the EU. Many farmers lost their jobs. I recall a MP re quoting Tony Blair telling them to find something else to do as they could not compete with European Farmers that flooded the market. But the market over time readjusted as wel as other industries. Its big economy.
All that was flipped overnight. Not only that you had a UK opposition(the Labour party and Liberl Democrats) hell bent on derailing the result of a democratic vote. Not only that but creating as many barriers to obtaining some sort of trade deal. Not only that you have the EU wanting to punish the UK. Do you not recall them voting in parliament when Prime Minister Teresa May tried to pass trade deal that even I though was decent..?
The UK economy will take time to adjust. I said this ages, ago. It will be crazy for a few years. But thats also dependent on the market and companies adjusting.
So I think it is a bit naive in judgment (especially with a global pandemic) on the arguments you make.
That is completely and utterly incorrect.
In the 50s-70s. There was a rebuild after the war and a mass labour shortage. The perverse degenerates as you call them, did not flock over the border. These people could not just come. You needed a working voucher. I know this as my late father came on a working voucher in 1964 to London. He worked in the factories in Birmingham and London. The labour was controlled. Not only that there WAS a mass shortage of workers in general. In the 1990's - Present day when the free movement happened. There was not a mass shortage. Not the difference. Now there is a huge economic impact. Why would a business keep a decent worker at $7 when they can hire someone else at $5. The government has to find work for the $7 person. This has a huge impact on families and your local economy. Its nothing to do with not wanting to do the work. Locals do. They just have family support obligations that a others do not. If the market is fooded its a nasty mess.
But there is more. The second generation i.e myself and others. Get stuck. We start off in low paying jobs, get educated and move up. We have a recession. We cant take low paying jobs. Why, well it has become embedded in the recruitment culture. Just hire east europeans. Person A has to pay a mortgage, Person B does not and will leave back to Eastern Europe. Now I have no problem with that. The issue I have is that it is uncontrolled and the market is flooded. Person A cannot provid for the family. So huge cuts in the family economics are made. Taxes go up to provide social credit. Oh another thing. See with open borders. The people that are coming. Not all have the same civic upbringing. Serious organised crime shoots up. In the part of London where I am from, it was one of the cheapest places in europe to buy crack cocaine in 1997. Try watching teenagers shoot up in front of you. Its devastating to see.
Odd to say. I actually support immigration and foreign workers on areas where there is a demand, so long as its controlled. Lets give you another example. My cousin from India immigrated to the UK. There was a massive demand for specific I.T. skills. He is happily settled and has even started a business.
My late father voted for Brexit. An immigrant himself. Why? He said himself you cannot flood the market in a uncontrolled manner. He said he wacthed over the decades, the change was too fast and had a huge impact on local communities and families. When this issue was brought up to elected representatives. They were dismissed and left leaning people shut this down as being racist.
I have said this before. Brexit was not the cause. Brexit was the result. It was the result of legitimate issues not being taken seriously. Throw in a Covid cocktail and economics that go with that. Then you get what we have here.
But wait there is more. See I came to Canada on a work permit. Why..?, well there was a labour shortage. A big one. LIKE HUGE. I could not just come over and work. We had to go through this thing called a 'Labour Market Opinion'. Its a process to hire locals first and then get work permits. I came on a work permit for a low paying job. Within a month I was running three businesses. it was that bad. Not only that. I could not even hire anyone. There was nobody to hire let alone people with skills etc. I ended bringing in foreign workers myself. When the recession hit, my work permit (two years) could not be renewed. It was only for 1 year. After that I could not renew it. I had to leave Canada. The businesses had to hire locals. it worked. Its a controlled labour market. Hate it all you want. But it worked. Could it be better, yes.
Not only that. There was a mass shortage of people in general in Alberta. Businesses were screaming for help. So a series of reforms and immigration streams came into effect that helped this. Guess who introduced that..?. It was your beloved Jason Kenny.
Real examples I have given of 1960's UK and 2007 Alberta are of labour markets that were controlled and mass demand needed.
What is FYGM? I don't know this acronym.
On the issue of protectionism. I would have to strongly disagree. I don't even need to counter that argument. I'l just use a example from history to do it for me.
Look up the East India Company in the 18th century. Its devastating effect on the textile industry in Bengal and India in general. It is well documented how a company purposely brought in regulations stopping locals and destroyed an industry let alone a country (Kingdoms). Then they (the British) flooded the market with its own textiles.
Thats why you need some sort of protectionism/control of labour, goods and services. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
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i could go back to nobody cares ..../ thread
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How do you put out an out of control natgas leak? With a nuclear bomb of course.
Will we ever go back to the days where power was that abundant?
Cocoa $11,000 per ton.
Registered User
Oh look @kertejud2 . A truck driver scheme by the Alberta government..
Are you going to blame Brexit on this too..?
https://www.alberta.ca/release.cfm?x...wTqQlGRIDi8taQ
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I recall the government proposing a deal they knew they couldn't pass, because it involved a Northern Ireland backstop which the DUP said they wouldn't support, and the DUP was propping the government up. All part of the calamity of the entire process really. In the end nobody getting what they wanted was the most fitting result.This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Your father needed a work voucher because they made significant immigration changes in 1962 to help quell the mass immigration of people from various Commonwealth countries in the 50s and early 60s. Had he come over earlier he wouldn't have needed one at all. On the other hand he might not have gotten a work voucher after the second round of changes in 1968 that further restricted immigration from current and former Commonwealth countries. The Labour Party actually pushed this one, despite their opposition to the 1962 one for 'being super racist'. In large part because why would a business keep a decent worker at $10 when they can hire someone else at $7? The government has to find work for the $10 person. This has a huge impact on families and your local economy...That is completely and utterly incorrect.
In the 50s-70s. There was a rebuild after the war and a mass labour shortage. The perverse degenerates as you call them, did not flock over the border. These people could not just come. You needed a working voucher. I know this as my late father came on a working voucher in 1964 to London. He worked in the factories in Birmingham and London. The labour was controlled. Not only that there WAS a mass shortage of workers in general. In the 1990's - Present day when the free movement happened. There was not a mass shortage. Not the difference. Now there is a huge economic impact. Why would a business keep a decent worker at $7 when they can hire someone else at $5. The government has to find work for the $7 person. This has a huge impact on families and your local economy. Its nothing to do with not wanting to do the work. Locals do. They just have family support obligations that a others do not. If the market is fooded its a nasty mess.
Then another big set of changes in the early 70s ahead of the entrance into the EEC which would restrict non-member state immigrants a lot more because of the rights of member-state citizens, changing the rules around nationality and citizenship and permanent immigration. This was the basis for all UK immigration policy up to 2020. UK basically traded unfettered Commonwealth immigration for unfettered EU member immigration.
Fuck You, Got Mine.But there is more. The second generation i.e myself and others. Get stuck. We start off in low paying jobs, get educated and move up. We have a recession. We cant take low paying jobs. Why, well it has become embedded in the recruitment culture. Just hire east europeans. Person A has to pay a mortgage, Person B does not and will leave back to Eastern Europe. Now I have no problem with that. The issue I have is that it is uncontrolled and the market is flooded. Person A cannot provid for the family. So huge cuts in the family economics are made. Taxes go up to provide social credit. Oh another thing. See with open borders. The people that are coming. Not all have the same civic upbringing. Serious organised crime shoots up. In the part of London where I am from, it was one of the cheapest places in europe to buy crack cocaine in 1997. Try watching teenagers shoot up in front of you. Its devastating to see.
Odd to say. I actually support immigration and foreign workers on areas where there is a demand, so long as its controlled. Lets give you another example. My cousin from India immigrated to the UK. There was a massive demand for specific I.T. skills. He is happily settled and has even started a business.
My late father voted for Brexit. An immigrant himself. Why? He said himself you cannot flood the market in a uncontrolled manner. He said he wacthed over the decades, the change was too fast and had a huge impact on local communities and families. When this issue was brought up to elected representatives. They were dismissed and left leaning people shut this down as being racist.
I have said this before. Brexit was not the cause. Brexit was the result. It was the result of legitimate issues not being taken seriously. Throw in a Covid cocktail and economics that go with that. Then you get what we have here.
But wait there is more. See I came to Canada on a work permit. Why..?, well there was a labour shortage. A big one. LIKE HUGE. I could not just come over and work. We had to go through this thing called a 'Labour Market Opinion'. Its a process to hire locals first and then get work permits. I came on a work permit for a low paying job. Within a month I was running three businesses. it was that bad. Not only that. I could not even hire anyone. There was nobody to hire let alone people with skills etc. I ended bringing in foreign workers myself. When the recession hit, my work permit (two years) could not be renewed. It was only for 1 year. After that I could not renew it. I had to leave Canada. The businesses had to hire locals. it worked. Its a controlled labour market. Hate it all you want. But it worked. Could it be better, yes.
Not only that. There was a mass shortage of people in general in Alberta. Businesses were screaming for help. So a series of reforms and immigration streams came into effect that helped this. Guess who introduced that..?. It was your beloved Jason Kenny.
Real examples I have given of 1960's UK and 2007 Alberta are of labour markets that were controlled and mass demand needed.
What is FYGM? I don't know this acronym.
As in, 'Our parents are immigrants and got here when things were a bit more lax, but its these 'new' immigrants that are the problem so we need to control immigration more'.
What the EIC did is protectionism (protect a national industry from foreign competition. The EU still has a bunch of it, like protecting fishing rights of member states and agricultural controls. Every country has it with airlines and dairy products). It's not the same as worker protections.On the issue of protectionism. I would have to strongly disagree. I don't even need to counter that argument. I'l just use a example from history to do it for me.
Look up the East India Company in the 18th century. Its devastating effect on the textile industry in Bengal and India in general. It is well documented how a company purposely brought in regulations stopping locals and destroyed an industry let alone a country (Kingdoms). Then they (the British) flooded the market with its own textiles.
Thats why you need some sort of protectionism/control of labour, goods and services. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
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No. Immigrants are not the problem.This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
The problem is the labour market being flooded. Also a worker coming to the UK and then returning to the EU is not immigrating. Thats not what immigration is.
Your post highlights a problem I am seeing a lot. This issue is being hijacked and subtle inference of be about immigrants.
I am immigrant, my father was a immigrant. We don't need people on the left telling us its a immigrant issue. We are not victims thank you very much. Going down this route drives others to the far right. So we end up with this racist situation of immigrants vs people not wanting immigrants. Guess who gets stuck in the middle of all this? The ethnic minority immigrants like myself. We are the ones getting racist attacks and picking up the pieces.
After looking into it ourselves over the past few decades, we learned its a labour market issue. It always has been. Extremes on the left and the right highjack it into being a immigrant issue. Why..? Its gets votes.
Yes. You just proved my point of having some sort of a controlled Labour Market.Your father needed a work voucher because they made significant immigration changes in 1962 to help quell the mass immigration of people from various Commonwealth countries in the 50s and early 60s. Had he come over earlier he wouldn't have needed one at all. On the other hand he might not have gotten a work voucher after the second round of changes in 1968 that further restricted immigration from current and former Commonwealth countries. The Labour Party actually pushed this one, despite their opposition to the 1962 one for 'being super racist'. In large part because why would a business keep a decent worker at $10 when they can hire someone else at $7? The government has to find work for the $10 person. This has a huge impact on families and your local economy...
Nobody getting what they wanted was not the most fitting result. It highlighted how childish and unrealistic the opposition was. That the viewpoit you subscribe to Kert. They would block everything and at the same time put nothing on table. What Teresa May put on the table was probably the best deal for the remainers.I recall the government proposing a deal they knew they couldn't pass, because it involved a Northern Ireland backstop which the DUP said they wouldn't support, and the DUP was propping the government up. All part of the calamity of the entire process really. In the end nobody getting what they wanted was the most fitting result.
If your position is so correct Kert. Then why did the Labour party suffer some of the worst losses in a 100 years in the last election? Whay they stood for is pretty much your view point in this entire thread. They took a battering the election. They lost so many safe seats in the north. It was shocking. That election really highlighted your school of thought of remaining and how disconnected it was from the public domain. That was one of the key questions asked. How was there such a massive disconnect?
That is a understatement to say the least. Some described it as organized looting.What the EIC did is protectionism (protect a national industry from foreign competition. The EU still has a bunch of it, like protecting fishing rights of member states and agricultural controls. Every country has it with airlines and dairy products). It's not the same as worker protections.
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I'm not sure I am tracking where you stand on this. You were praising Kenney's Immigration changes a post ago which was expanding the Temporary Foreign Worker program. Now you're complaining about temporary workers.This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Why aren't ('real') immigrants taking these jobs that TFWs and workers from the EU coming in helped fill?
The labour market should be controlled more than when your dad came in, anyway. Right? FYGM.Your post highlights a problem I am seeing a lot. This issue is being hijacked and subtle inference of be about immigrants.
I am immigrant, my father was a immigrant. We don't need people on the left telling us its a immigrant issue. We are not victims thank you very much. Going down this route drives others to the far right. So we end up with this racist situation of immigrants vs people not wanting immigrants. Guess who gets stuck in the middle of all this? The ethnic minority immigrants like myself. We are the ones getting racist attacks and picking up the pieces.
After looking into it ourselves over the past few decades, we learned its a labour market issue. It always has been. Extremes on the left and the right highjack it into being a immigrant issue. Why..? Its gets votes.
Yes. You just proved my point of having some sort of a controlled Labour Market.
The labour controls were always based around racism. For the 1968 reforms they didn't even try to hide it. Was the same over the Brexit fury. All those refugees just need to get into the EU then they'll be on Britain's shores!
Nobody getting what they wanted was not the most fitting result. It highlighted how childish and unrealistic the opposition was. That the viewpoit you subscribe to Kert. They would block everything and at the same time put nothing on table. What Teresa May put on the table was probably the best deal for the remainers.
What Theresa May put on the table couldn't even satisfy her own party and coalition, much less the opposition.
Over a hundred of her own party's MPs were against a deal in the first place and voted against it. Her own party.
The DUP had one condition: no backstop. She brought a deal with a backstop. So even if over a third of her own party didn't revolt and supported the deal, they couldn't have gotten it past either.
Nobody getting what they wanted wasn't just the most fitting result, it was the only result possible.
The answer is easy: English people are dumb.If your position is so correct Kert. Then why did the Labour party suffer some of the worst losses in a 100 years in the last election? Whay they stood for is pretty much your view point in this entire thread. They took a battering the election. They lost so many safe seats in the north. It was shocking. That election really highlighted your school of thought of remaining and how disconnected it was from the public domain. That was one of the key questions asked. How was there such a massive disconnect?
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The point I was making in regards to Jason Kenny and immigrants coming to the UK in the 1960s was its a example of a controlled labour market.This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Yet you continuously see it as a immigration issue. Let me correct it, manipulate it as being a immigration issue. Someone coming on a work permit or crossing countries just to work is not necessarily immigrating. Did it ever occur to you that maybe they are coming to work temporariliy to fill a skills or labour gap? This point was proven by the fact that many workers returned to the EU after Brexit. Or myself I returned to the UK after my work permit expired. As a immigrant that has gone through the entire process. You don't know what you are talking about. Those who want to stay can apply for immigration (like I did). Same with EU workers. But they decided not to. Its a labor market issue and always has been.
Im not complaining about foreign workers. I don't know where you got that from. Brexit gives a controlled labour market. If anything your position is fantastic example of any civil discussion on a issue like this being marked as being racists or complaining about immigrants. The same thing happened prior to Brexit. Any civic discussion on this was shut down by people with similar view point to yours. So when the referendum happened. It highlighted people dont like being told what to think.
When challenged on the actual argument you run away or rewrite the argument to suit your own viewpoint to be a immigration issue.
You are completely wrong about Teresas May's deal or deals she put forward. See when Brexit happened, the opposition or those who advocate for your view point still wanted to trade with the EU. But when any deal that resembled that was put forward... guess what. The Labour party voted against it. This is well pointed out in parliamentary debates. Teresa May asked Jeremy Corbyn what he wanted. He still would not accept it, as he had Marrxist viewpoints.
There were technically three referendums on the EU. One referendum and two elections.
It highlighted how the far left will not respect a democratic process. When that process is not respected, the people will turn against the left. As per the result of the last UK election.
The answer is easy: Left leaning viewpoints like yours ignore facts. If anyone disagrees or comply with your narrative is automatically demed to hate immigrants or are racist.
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Im not complaining about foreign workers. I don't know where you got that from. Brexit gives a controlled labour market. If anything your position is fantastic example of any civil discussion on a issue like this being marked as being racists or complaining about immigrants. The same thing happened prior to Brexit. Any civic discussion on this was shut down by people with similar view point to yours. So when the referendum happened. It highlighted people dont like being told what to think.This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
When challenged on the actual argument you run away or rewrite the argument to suit your own viewpoint to be a immigration issue. [/quote]
I see it as an immigration issue because it was always an immigration issue. It was the number one reason Leavers would cite (Not All Leavers, I know). 'Take back control' of immigration. Don't allow those Turks in. Yadda, yadda, yadda. You see 'labour control issue' and 'immigration' as mutally exclusive things, when in the context of Brexit they were intertwined. I mean, even without Brexit they're intertwined. There's a reason that 'temp workers' and immigrants and everybody in between is dealt with by the same department. Immigration controls are just labour market controls. You see them as separate, I don't.
The jobs the EU workers 'went back to the EU' from aren't being taken up by locals. They were available to EU workers because locals weren't taking them. Seasonal work like hospitality and agriculture. Having the open labour market allowed the market to deal with the skill gaps and labour shortage in a far more efficient manner. No need to deal with the government bureaucracy, just come and work and get paid for your labour. Why does the government need to tell employers who they can hire? Now the market has had government controls put back on it, the industries are struggling as predicted and the solution seems to be trying to streamline the visa process, allowing people back in to take the still vacant jobs.
How does the control of EU workers who just go back home solve the issue of: See with open borders. The people that are coming. Not all have the same civic upbringing. Serious organised crime shoots up.?
Here's the only fact you need to know about the Brexit dealsYou are completely wrong about Teresas May's deal or deals she put forward. See when Brexit happened, the opposition or those who advocate for your view point still wanted to trade with the EU. But when any deal that resembled that was put forward... guess what. The Labour party voted against it. This is well pointed out in parliamentary debates. Teresa May asked Jeremy Corbyn what he wanted. He still would not accept it, as he had Marrxist viewpoints.
There were technically three referendums on the EU. One referendum and two elections.
It highlighted how the far left will not respect a democratic process. When that process is not respected, the people will turn against the left. As per the result of the last UK election.
The answer is easy: Left leaning viewpoints like yours ignore facts. If anyone disagrees or comply with your narrative is automatically demed to hate immigrants or are racist.
May's government had 327 candidates: 317 Tories and 10 DUP members as part of a confidence agreement.
The first deal was rejected 202-432 (318 votes needed for a majority)
The second was rejected 242-391 (317 votes needed for a majority)
The third was rejected 286-344 (316 votes needed for a majority)
She never even had her own party. Why did she even need Corbyn? Two of the votes she didn't even need the DUP. How is it the Opposition's fault she couldn't even present a deal her own party supported?
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You keep on citing Teresa Mays own party. It does not matter what she did, it was a impossible position. She did meet requirments that the opposition wanted to pass a deal. This has already been covered. But they never voted for it. But you never hold Jeremy Corby to account on his position which is that of yours. Watch the parliamentary debates. Because if you did it would highlight how pointless post is. Jeremy Corbyn was asked what does he want...? He went on TV about keeping the current deal with the EU yada yada yada. But when it came to any deal of that sort that met his demands. Him and his party voted against it. That is why Teresa May failed, it does not matter what she did. Jeremy Corybn voted against it. Thats why the British public gave the labour party the worst electoral defeat in 100 years. So lets flip this the other way. Let me ask you. In such a position what would have you done as leader of the opposition? Do you think Jeremy Corby had a right a strategy?Here's the only fact you need to know about the Brexit deals
May's government had 327 candidates: 317 Tories and 10 DUP members as part of a confidence agreement.
The first deal was rejected 202-432 (318 votes needed for a majority)
The second was rejected 242-391 (317 votes needed for a majority)
The third was rejected 286-344 (316 votes needed for a majority)
She never even had her own party. Why did she even need Corbyn? Two of the votes she didn't even need the DUP. How is it the Opposition's fault she couldn't even present a deal her own party supported?
They are not the same.I see it as an immigration issue because it was always an immigration issue. It was the number one reason Leavers would cite (Not All Leavers, I know). 'Take back control' of immigration. Don't allow those Turks in. Yadda, yadda, yadda. You see 'labour control issue' and 'immigration' as mutally exclusive things, when in the context of Brexit they were intertwined. I mean, even without Brexit they're intertwined. There's a reason that 'temp workers' and immigrants and everybody in between is dealt with by the same department. Immigration controls are just labour market controls. You see them as separate, I don't.
Immigration. One comes to the country, works, settles down and becomes part of the civic society.
Work Permit. A worker comes and fills a skills or labour shortage gap. If he likes it (just like Tony Tiger did). They can apply for immigration. If not they return home and live happlily every after.
Both of the above have controls by the government. The above also have checks and balances(education, criminal background check etc).
Someone coming from Poland as a example, working and then leaving. That is not immigration. You are arguing it is.
Lets pull the defintion from the Oxford Dictionary to settle this.
Immigration - Noun
The process of coming to live permanently in a different country from the one you were born in; the number of people who do this
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionari...?q=immigration
Seasonal agriculture workers is not a new thing. They have that in Canada too. We do that fine. Its called a work permit.
As for the hospitality industry needing workers in Britain. We have covered this. This exact same issue happened in Alberta. It as resolved by Jason Kenny.
You give a example of a problem. I gave you a real life example of a solution that worked and works in other countries.
The government does not tell employers who they can hire.Why does the government need to tell employers who they can hire? Now the market has had government controls put back on it, the industries are struggling as predicted and the solution seems to be trying to streamline the visa process, allowing people back in to take the still vacant jobs.
You can hire someone from another country. When there is a labour market shortage, work permits and immigration policy is amended to address this issue.
The examples you gave happened in reverse when Britain joined the EU. It happened slower. Brexit was also a opportunity where the process could have been a slow divorce but the EU and your beloved Jeremy Corby blocked anything and everything. So you get these problems, thefore it gives them a political mandate to argue Brexit was a bad thing. Its like chess Kert. They were always thinking three moves ahead for themselves after Brexit.
We have covered this in previous discussions.I see it as an immigration issue because it was always an immigration issue. It was the number one reason Leavers would cite (Not All Leavers, I know). 'Take back control' of immigration. Don't allow those Turks in. Yadda, yadda, yadda. You see 'labour control issue' and 'immigration' as mutally exclusive things, when in the context of Brexit they were intertwined. I mean, even without Brexit they're intertwined. There's a reason that 'temp workers' and immigrants and everybody in between is dealt with by the same department.
Legitimate arguments of these issues happened decades ago. They were always shut down as being racist or anti-immgration when they were not. When Brexit referendum happened. What was said as campaigning (take back control, stop immigration) was very different to what was argued underground.
The difference is Kert, you bought into the political campaigning. Many people did not as the problems of the EU were growing for decades. As covered before. When the remainers lost. They blamed just like you did that people were dumb and racist towards immigrants.
To prove my point further. The Liberal Democrat leader Jo Swinson took the same position you did. She was famous for stating she would have a second referendum. If people still voted for Brexit she would ignore it (Which defeats the point of democracy). Well guess what.. In the last election she lost her seat. She was booted out. Were people dumb, or did they boot out a person who refused to listen to the people and kept on inferring to them that they are stupid and racist?
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I'd say "this is like watching two retards play chess" but I think I like one of them... So I'm torn...
Like Rip Torn.
"Oh boys... Will you faggots stop making so fuckin much noise!!? We're trying to sleep!"
RIP Rip Torn...
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