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  1. #121
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    The average person that actually has time to enjoy them probably don't have that kind of cash just laying around... like teachers

    But I mean, if you are able and do spend all summer on the water... why not? Treat them right and they hold value... still can't get into basically any v drive... even a 15-20 year old one for much less than $25k

    But I guess you'd have to look at it differently than a car purchase... this is basically a commitment to a certain family lifestyle, drop $6k/year on boat payments... plus gas and what not... and no all inclusive/Hawaii family vacations... which again is money that you will never see again. Buying memories, pick your poison

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3ccOs View Post
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    well... maybe one day the surf boat will be the swiss army knife... but with the new Volvo Penta Forward Drive, its possible the runabout may do just about everything most people would want to on a boat.
    Its very interesting and I'll wait to see what the runabout manufacturers come up with, and how they review for surfing.
    That's interesting, I was about to harp on you for considering surfing with an I/O, then I googled forward drive haha. Not likely going to be chopping any feet off with one of those.

    I have my doubts that they will measure up to an actual surf boat, but would be nice if they did - more alternatives in the market is never a bad thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ercchry View Post
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    The average person that actually has time to enjoy them probably don't have that kind of cash just laying around... like teachers

    But I mean, if you are able and do spend all summer on the water... why not? Treat them right and they hold value... still can't get into basically any v drive... even a 15-20 year old one for much less than $25k

    But I guess you'd have to look at it differently than a car purchase... this is basically a commitment to a certain family lifestyle, drop $6k/year on boat payments... plus gas and what not... and no all inclusive/Hawaii family vacations... which again is money that you will never see again. Buying memories, pick your poison
    The thing is though, you look at a 10 year old boat and instead of paying 120k you're now spending 60 for something that if a calgarian owns it probably has pretty low hours. Even the most avid boaters I know only average about 3 weekends a month in the summer of which usually only one of those days each time they go out is a full day boating

    Or you compromise and get something like an IO and literally the only thing it's not good for is surfing. You can get into those way cheaper and have 90% of the fun without breaking the bank. im probably biased though as I personally find wake surfing boring as hell.
    Last edited by J-hop; 09-02-2017 at 05:55 AM.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-hop View Post
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    The thing is though, you look at a 10 year old boat and instead of paying 120k you're now spending 60 for something that if a calgarian owns it probably has pretty low hours. Even the most avid boaters I know only average about 3 weekends a month in the summer of which usually only one of those days is a full day boating

    Or you compromise and get something like an IO and literally the only thing it's not good for is surfing. You can get into those way cheaper and have 90% of the fun withoit breaking the bank.
    I'll be honest, being able to trim an I/O or an outboard is really nice for any mountain fed lake or resovior due to the stern drive (v/direct) draft requirement and most I/O boats are good for everything except for wake surfing (but not great for water sports)

    Stern drives are way better overall for getting to plain with little degress of deadrise which again is better for sheer watersports.

    trad V hull vs flat hull also means better effenciency for higher speeds without cavitation

    my neighbor's malibu is just such an amazing tow boat, but the other neighbor's V8 bayliner honestly is just as much fun to drive around, ski/knee board and tube and likely 1/2 the price new, and probably closer to 1/4th the price used

    but I/O's are scary, as when one of our friends was feeding the line, his son was driving the boat (in attempts to tighten the slack) almost knocked him off the platform into the prop....

    as all the Volvo Penta forward drive systems are basically the same price as a surf boat, are there any options to say:

    replace an outboard runabout (common boat) with an outboard jet (they are relatively new) to keep things safe, and add enough ballast bags to create a "surf"?

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    When you say I/Os aren't great for watersports what do you mean? The drive doesn't really matter for any tow sports does it? At least I've never noticed, main thing is the size of the boat and hull configuration for things like wakeboarding.

    Outboard jets have actually been around for a really long time. A family friend had an outboard jet about 20 years ago that he used for river running

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    Stern drives are shit for water sports, if you have any sort of power... if I cut hard, even just on a wakeboard I can slow my stern drive by about 10mph, also if you load it with any sort of weight... good luck getting that bitch up on plain/plane? Which word is right? Haha

    Oh... and jet... you ever run over a rope with a jet boat? ...brutal
    Last edited by ercchry; 09-02-2017 at 07:41 AM.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by ercchry View Post
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    Stern drives are shit for water sports, if you have any sort of power... if I cut hard, even just on a wakeboard I can slow my stern drive by about 10mph, also if you load it with any sort of weight... good luck getting that bitch up on plain/plane? Which word is right? Haha

    Oh... and jet... you ever run over a rope with a jet boat? ...brutal

    Yea I don't like jets I was excluding that from the drive comment. The wash is horrible to ride on too. Although if you're running over ropes you're going to have a bad day regardless of drive. I've never driven over a rope in my life though so I'd personally say that's a non-issue

    I've never had the experience you're talking about. Loaded down with 6 people and me towing I can't slow our stern drive down and it has no problem planing.

    I guess with a stendrive you do have to plane it before slowing down to tow speed. A lot of novice drivers don't know that and sit there pushing water, should have no problems once you're up on plane though. Plus you should be towing pretty fast for wakeboarding (~20 mph)

    But again get an older v-drive for half the price of a new one is your other option. Other than people not yearly waxing their boats causing paint fade the 10 year old boats in Calgary are brand new.

    Edit: I should say (as you probably know) you do have to change prop pitches for towing. Most stern drives are factory equipped with shitty props for towing (cruiser/speed pitches)so you need to switch that out
    Last edited by J-hop; 09-02-2017 at 10:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3ccOs View Post
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    as all the Volvo Penta forward drive systems are basically the same price as a surf boat, are there any options to say:

    replace an outboard runabout (common boat) with an outboard jet (they are relatively new) to keep things safe, and add enough ballast bags to create a "surf"?
    If those forward drive boats are the same price as a surf boat, 7 days a week I'd rather have the surf boat. Ballast doesn't make a surf boat - I've been in a ski boat where we had two big fat sacks, one small one, 5 people... the boat had enough weight in it that an inexperienced driver could sink it if they cross the wake wrong - and it still didn't produce a great wave for surfing.

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    I have been looking for a boat recently, but am having trouble finding exactly what I need/want.

    I do like 4.3L merc, but was hoping if I could get the 5.0L.

    Looking to spend under $20k, any suggestions of what I should be looking for. I am sure boats will get cheaper with the winter coming up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J-hop View Post
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    Yea I don't like jets I was excluding that from the drive comment. The wash is horrible to ride on too. Although if you're running over ropes you're going to have a bad day regardless of drive. I've never driven over a rope in my life though so I'd personally say that's a non-issue

    I've never had the experience you're talking about. Loaded down with 6 people and me towing I can't slow our stern drive down and it has no problem planing.

    I guess with a stendrive you do have to plane it before slowing down to tow speed. A lot of novice drivers don't know that and sit there pushing water, should have no problems once you're up on plane though. Plus you should be towing pretty fast for wakeboarding (~20 mph)

    But again get an older v-drive for half the price of a new one is your other option. Other than people not yearly waxing their boats causing paint fade the 10 year old boats in Calgary are brand new.

    Edit: I should say (as you probably know) you do have to change prop pitches for towing. Most stern drives are factory equipped with shitty props for towing (cruiser/speed pitches)so you need to switch that out
    I grew up on the water, uncle was national barefoot champ back in the day, use to compete at wakeboarding... I know what I'm talking about... i personally need about 350hp to not pull a boat depending on sport... hell, even the LS7 powered ski natique pull a touch when going through the course

    And ps: 20mph?!? Are you 120lbs?! I can't even get away with that on a wakeskate... I board at 26mph... at 70-75ft

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    All depends on the boat, our old boat I towed mid 20s, new boat I tow slower. I believe even in competition the upper towing speed is usually around 25mph

    Out of curiousity what rpm are you running at 26mph. With the tow prop ours is around 5200 at 30mph. Not sure what it is at 20

    I still remember the pain from our first boat, 15' 90hp outboard with a short ski pole, that's what I learned backflips on. Didn't realize how much of a nightmare that was to learn on until I'd go out with friends who had real boats with towers haha


    But to the original point, unless someone is competing like you were, there is zero need for 120k boat, get an older one and don't break the bank for something you're maybe going to use 10-15 weekends out of the year if you're lucky
    Last edited by J-hop; 09-02-2017 at 05:22 PM.

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    My favourite boat is still the OG x-star... perfect shape and structure and enough power... can find them if you're lucky in that $25k range now

    But I mean, I come from a cottage background... this year I did 5 weeks straight at the lake

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    Quote Originally Posted by ercchry View Post
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    I grew up on the water, uncle was national barefoot champ back in the day, use to compete at wakeboarding... I know what I'm talking about... i personally need about 350hp to not pull a boat depending on sport... hell, even the LS7 powered ski natique pull a touch when going through the course

    And ps: 20mph?!? Are you 120lbs?! I can't even get away with that on a wakeskate... I board at 26mph... at 70-75ft
    this is quite intresting. When wakeboarding or skiing on any boat, I/O stern or direct drive I've never lost slack from doing any maneouver, but chances are that you are a superior watersports athelete to me and most.

    So are you saying for pure wakeboarding that an I/O stern drive is better at maintaining speed than a V or direct drive with equivillent power? I find that very intresting but again you probably put the boats to their limit.

    power wise, the old girls from the late 90s to mid-2000s were all very atypical 5.7 indermar/mercruisers making 350hp and less. I think not until the big 6.2 Ford motor that power went bezerk, especially once paired with Roush supercharging.

    I've been able to wakesurf on an older moomba ski boat with alot (alot) of ballast with a high hours 5.7 as well as on a Malibu with the Raptor motor, and the push, height, etc... felt very close to me BUT the freeboard was awkwardly low that it would be scary if there was alot of chop

    I think wakeboarding must have the most drag on the boat, so I could see why power is a necessity, but not sure why I/O would have that much advantage. Also a runabout's V hull design just will never, even with a forward drive, give the same surf as a Wakeboat's semi flat I don't think.

    edit: In reading more... yes a stern driven I/O mounted to the transom is more effecient as is the hull's they are mounted to. I can see how that effects top speed, but in terms of maintaining say 27mph or 11mph... I thought thats what watersports/wake boats were built for
    Last edited by r3ccOs; 09-03-2017 at 01:10 PM.

  14. #134
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    Any one have experience with Lasron?

    Also the 5.0 merc?

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    Quote Originally Posted by black300 View Post
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    I have been looking for a boat recently, but am having trouble finding exactly what I need/want.

    I do like 4.3L merc, but was hoping if I could get the 5.0L.

    Looking to spend under $20k, any suggestions of what I should be looking for. I am sure boats will get cheaper with the winter coming up

    Any one have experience with Lasron?

    Also the 5.0 merc?
    black... me being "new" to ownership and owning a twin 787x 2 stroke Seadoo jet boat, neighbor with a 195 I/O stern driven Bayliner and the other with a v drive indarmar 6.2 Malibu 23 LSV, I'd say that being on them all in this season alone and if you are using it primarily in Southern Albertan lakes... go with an I/O runabout as your FIRST boat

    I love the fact that my boat requires little draft, trimming and has a "basic" motor and NO exposed prop... the bad: the Jet itself can be a PITA with ropes, sand, rocks and weeds, which is notorious in Albertan lakes. Impeller driven jets are less effecient and require more maintenance on consumable parts, such as the impeller (prop) and wear rings. Though it can pull a skiier, wakeboarder or tube, a non-wake designed Jetboat can put out a rooster tail and a wake with too much wash.
    People who have experience with personal watercrafts (which I wasn't unfortunately) love these boats and still gravitate to the Seadoo, Yamaha and Scarab boats (basically Seadoos) because they are fast, turn on a dime making it super easy to moor. They also know that you HAVE to push the boat out before starting the motor, as there is no true "neutral" for the drive, which "I" didn't , as well as how to power through weedy area to use the hull to diverage it from the inlet grate.

    The runabouts in the used market are plentiful, but you do have to make sure that the leg was taken care of. But they aren't generally as big as a Wakeboat, don't require as much draft and are very powerful when powered by a larger v6 or v8 Mercruiser
    I know that even when talking to my neighbor who bought his 04' last season was trying to make heads and tails of the runabout flavors, there isn't much of a differentiator between a larson, 4wins, bayliner, glastron, tahoe, starcraft, searay etc...
    That means your options are plentiful for what your requirements are and the next good thign is that there are lots of people to service them.
    You also have your option of straight outboard runabouts, which isn't a bad thing neither and makes mainteance even easier "but" more costly for major service or replacement (or so I've been told)
    the "Bad" may only be that the prop is exposed, so you have to be cognisant of it when taking off and that you cannot wake surf behind one.

    then the big direct or V drive watersports/wakeboats
    Not saying these aren't for beginners neither, but I know my neighbor has made his fair share of beginner mistakes, which are costly. In his case it had to do with the draft he was in... with the gadgetry, he's had to fix a few things with the pumps and the "wedge".
    Defiantely much bigger, so can be more daunting to launch, you definately need more water to run in (at least you can trim an I/O or outboard)
    With ballast, boy they put out a fun wake for low impact surfing, which is really I'd say is one of the primary differentiators of this class, but boy that gas tank sure drains fast when all that ballast is filled.
    I personally love this class of boat the most.

    I think I say on Kijiji a Bayliner with a 5.0 for about 16k... thats not a bad price
    Last edited by r3ccOs; 09-03-2017 at 01:36 PM.

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    Thanks for the great information, really appreciate it.

    I have always wanted the bigger engine just for the go and it's easier on the leg. I think I can find one at a price point right now which is definitely worth it.
    How much is a wake tower worth? To get one afterwards ?

    I'm hoping I can find one and take it out for a few weekends before I have to winterize it and store it.

    One of my friends has a Tahoe Q4 iirc with a 4.3L merc. It has decent power but with 6 people in the boat you can definitely feel the motor working hard and the rpms stay relatively high.

    From what I was told mercruiser is a better motor than Volvo penta ?

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    kinda off topic but, we just bought an 11 ft inflatable boat that I am planning on putting a 20 hp outboard on. It wasn't registered and licensed from the previous owner and we didn't do a bill of sale. Is there a way around this for registering/licensing?

    TIA

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3ccOs View Post
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    this is quite intresting. When wakeboarding or skiing on any boat, I/O stern or direct drive I've never lost slack from doing any maneouver, but chances are that you are a superior watersports athelete to me and most.

    So are you saying for pure wakeboarding that an I/O stern drive is better at maintaining speed than a V or direct drive with equivillent power? I find that very intresting but again you probably put the boats to their limit.

    power wise, the old girls from the late 90s to mid-2000s were all very atypical 5.7 indermar/mercruisers making 350hp and less. I think not until the big 6.2 Ford motor that power went bezerk, especially once paired with Roush supercharging.

    I've been able to wakesurf on an older moomba ski boat with alot (alot) of ballast with a high hours 5.7 as well as on a Malibu with the Raptor motor, and the push, height, etc... felt very close to me BUT the freeboard was awkwardly low that it would be scary if there was alot of chop

    I think wakeboarding must have the most drag on the boat, so I could see why power is a necessity, but not sure why I/O would have that much advantage. Also a runabout's V hull design just will never, even with a forward drive, give the same surf as a Wakeboat's semi flat I don't think.

    edit: In reading more... yes a stern driven I/O mounted to the transom is more effecient as is the hull's they are mounted to. I can see how that effects top speed, but in terms of maintaining say 27mph or 11mph... I thought thats what watersports/wake boats were built for

    I don't think you read that right... I'm saying when I pull to cut behind a stern drive.. I slow the boat and it does not maintain speed... while in the slalom course behind a proper boat, a strong skier will still slow the boat... but it's no where near as dramatic... more of a mild head bob thing to the passengers in the boat

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    Quote Originally Posted by topher91 View Post
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    kinda off topic but, we just bought an 11 ft inflatable boat that I am planning on putting a 20 hp outboard on. It wasn't registered and licensed from the previous owner and we didn't do a bill of sale. Is there a way around this for registering/licensing?

    TIA
    you're in "luck"

    the only thing that needs to be registered is technically the trailer.

    A dingy zodiac likely was never registered but that can be checked with transportation Canada, and registration I don't believe is manditory unless you intend on using it in open bodies of water. (its also free, and if it wasn't registered before, you may not need proof of purchase)

    No insurance is required neither

    Boating license is all you need bud...

    knowing that a 4 stroke outboard "new" is quite pricy at 20hp, I'd suggest you find something like a well maintained 2 stroke Evinrude or Johnson from years past. Having used them on my friend's Zodiac when we were kids, I recall them being super easy to work on and I believe parts are very easy to find.

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    Anything with more than a 9.9 needs reg numbers

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