TRUMAN HOMES leaves home owner on their own...

[Minimalist]

Dave is the Beyond go-to guy for all things sink and tile related.

Speedog Captain Obvious requested a baby in the proper kitchen sink E-coli-ing it all up in an oh so cute fashion.

[speedog]

While I did not request any picture, I do have to say that silicon is used to hold more in place in homes then people might realize. Bar brackets, sometimes shelves, even upper cabinets sometimes. This is because sometimes there is no alternative because the builder wants a certain look or studs are placed farther apart than what's being mounted on that wall. Builders will short cut when something is missed that affects something else later.

I would love it if every kitchen had plywood or particle board behind the drywall to hang cabinets off or even backing plates but that is the exception and not the rule by far. I've seen cabinets hung on a wall with just silicon because there were no studs available - 19" cabinet on 24" stud spacing. Or only 3 - 3" screws holding in a 30" cabinet with silicone doing the rest on 24" stud spacing.

I could go on but there's no point - silicone adhesives are widely used and more so all the time. The build I'm currently on has 250 units with a bathroom sinks mounted on a corner mounter shelf (6" skids) - this shelf is secured to the walls with only with silicone and I initially had a difficult time believing it would hold any significant weight. Two days after doing my first one I tested it out with my 205 pound bulk and to my surprise, it held. I wouldn't do things this way but the owner wants no visible attachment points and silicon was the only way.

As a sub, I can have my own idea of what's the right or wrong way to do things but the builder and/or owner/developer are often more than willing to accept compromises to save money. Just this past week, myself and another sub installed 406 swinging closet doors - we had to shim all but 2 and the amount of shimming was quite extreme in most cases. Several things contributed to this problem but the builder was willing to accept uneven outside gaps as opposed to fixing crooked metal door frames. Deadlines and money are the trump card in most builds as opposed to doing things the right way.

Siliconing under mount sinks, it's the norm as best as I've seen and no doubt some installs are quite sketchy. Shit happens and it's not like any inspection is going to involve someone getting on one's backside in a cabinet to look up at a sink.

[thinmyster]

Originally posted by C_Dave45

others use a 2x4 under the sink with rope or wires up through the drain onto another 2x4 running across the countertops. Twist the wire or rope to snug the sink into place.
The most common now though is really strong "scotch tape" (like sock tape in hockey) and they just tape it onto the counter over night.

This is exactly how mine were done a couple years back. (both methods- 2x4 for the kitchen and tape for the bathrooms)

They did put metal strapping across my kitchen sink. (I think maybe because I asked them about it) but once they installed the strapping I remember thinking "this isn't going to do shit". I imagine if the silicone gives way im hooped

[blairtruck]

i have quartz countertop and i just looked and my under mount is attached with clips screwed into the quartz.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by gwill
im surprised the news did an article on this. Everything has a warranty.. houses, cars, electronics... there arent many that will add an extra 6 months or a year when an issue arises.

Isnt it our responsibility to understand what we are buying and what limitations there are to the warranty?

So you understand this to mean only one year? I don't understand it. I think a major failure like this should be covered.

Alberta New Home Warranty

Alberta’s New Home Buyer Protection Act (NHBPA), which took effect in February 2014, reflects the Government’s desire to ensure all new homebuyers receive warranty protection, clear expectations and an ownership experience protected from unpleasant surprises – the benefits our Builder Members’ customers have been enjoying for over 40 years.

Alberta’s New Home Buyer Protection Act stipulates that all new homes must include warranty coverage of one year for labour and materials, two years for delivery and distribution systems, five years for building envelope protection and 10 years for major structural components.

A new home warranty must cover defects in labour and materials related to heating, electrical and plumbing systems for two years from the warranty commencement date. This applies to single-family homes, multi-family units and warrantable multi-family common property.

[blitz]

I have one of the giant single bowl sinks mounted to granite, mounted with silicon and some wood tabs with epoxy. After about 5 years of use the wood tabs and epoxy started falling off and a bit later I noticed one of the corners had some play in it and a good shove on the bottom of the sink broke it loose. I remounted it with silicon but added in some baltic birtch plywood supports on each side screwed into the side of the cabinet.

We were pretty heavy users of the sink though, lol.

Sony A7 + FE 28mm F2 by Ryan Karr, on Flickr

[Prelude_dude]

wow this is a great awareness thread.

I have one of these under mounted sinks as well; just checked and i have some wood screwed to the side of the cabinet.

Peace of mind!

Home was built by Discovery Homes.

[Kobe]

So from a business perspective here if Truman goes and pays the 10-15k to fix your warranty issue I'm sure it's not a big deal for him but then everyone will be like "well you fixed his after warranty, fix mine" so i see why he doesn't want to do it

On the other side he can just fix it to sweep this under the rug and forget about it.

Do you not have condo insurance they should be covering this? or home insurance?

The sink should not be falling out ofc but with what 400 units and 1 failed I'd say you just had some pretty bad luck IMO, and it could really happen to anyone else, Unlucky it happened to you.

With that said, was any action taken from the condo insurance or Truman on this?

PS: we have a Truman home and have lived in it for 3+ years now with no real issues.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Kobe
So from a business perspective here if Truman goes and pays the 10-15k to fix your warranty issue I'm sure it's not a big deal for him but then everyone will be like "well you fixed his after warranty, fix mine" so i see why he doesn't want to do it

On the other side he can just fix it to sweep this under the rug and forget about it.

Do you not have condo insurance they should be covering this? or home insurance?

The sink should not be falling out ofc but with what 400 units and 1 failed I'd say you just had some pretty bad luck IMO, and it could really happen to anyone else, Unlucky it happened to you.

With that said, was any action taken from the condo insurance or Truman on this?

PS: we have a Truman home and have lived in it for 3+ years now with no real issues.

My parent's townhouse complex has 3 units (so far) with improperly installed toilets. Bolts were over tightened or something, and eventually it cracks and if you're not home, if it's an upstairs toilet, just massive water carnage. One of the units belongs to a friend, basically whole place is being rebuilt.

Condo insurance pays for the repairs, typically with a huge deductible. Our own insurance covers the deductible with a smaller deductible. So that's the proper process AFAIK.

Another instance, our condo (top floor) had a hose failure which leaked water for a couple hours. Condo insurance paid for all the repairs to all units. Our own insurance covers the deductible, and any upgrades to other units that weren't covered by condo insurance.

So ya, I think this is really the only recourse for the OP. The sink really isn't part of the definition of "plumbing system" that hits the 2 year warranty, otherwise you could argue that the fridge, dishwasher, bathtub, basically anything hooked up to water would qualify as well. So really, it's hard for Truman homes to do anything about it.

[gwill]

Originally posted by C_Dave45


So you understand this to mean only one year? I don't understand it. I think a major failure like this should be covered.

Alberta New Home Warranty

First if you read the article or saw the video this condo project was under the old warranty setup. The govt used permits applied after a certain date as those who would have the warranty you quoted.


So the question to everyone is what good is a warranty if you expect every little issue to be fixed after it expires? Thats why its clearly defined so people arent demanding fixes to every little issue.

If you dont understand the warranty for the things your buying why are others to blame?

This sucks for the op but stuff happens out of warranty all the time. My friends audi had major transmission issues 5k out of warrsnty and it cost him $14k. That didnt make the news..

[dj_patm]

Hey guys,
I'm back to give an update. Firstly, I would argue that this isn't a warranty issue as much as it is a defective workmanship issue. Sinks don't collapse after 15 months if installed correctly. This isn't "wear and tear".

My condo board insurance is covering it and I'm responsible for covering their deductible which is close to 8 grand. My insurance will cover that and I'll have to cover my deductible and of course, a higher insurance rate going forward.

I'm exploring what I can do.

As for understanding the warranty, Truman didn't even understand the warranty as they told me I'd be covered under the ANHWP. They included the ANHWP pamphlets in my possession date documents. I would definitely argue that the sink is part of the plumbing distribution as water flows in and out of it and it's drain is literally part of the plumbing distribution system for the dishwasher too but that's all a moot issue at this point.

(To the people that read CP: I left for reasons completely unrelated to this. Got other things I need to invest time into. Also no, I didn't enjoy any of this. It's most likely going to cost me a lot of money through zero fault of my own. There was no way I was going to sit around and take it laying down. That's how these builders get away with a BS one year warranty on a HOME in the first place. People just take it. Did it motivate me? Yes. Did I enjoy it? No. Not at all. Ridiculous notion.)

[TomcoPDR]

Got a friend living in that development. His buildings central heating system broke down last week. Oh man

[rage2]

Originally posted by dj_patm
Hey guys,
I'm back to give an update. Firstly, I would argue that this isn't a warranty issue as much as it is a defective workmanship issue. Sinks don't collapse after 15 months if installed correctly. This isn't "wear and tear".

Well that's what a warranty is for, it's to cover workmanship issues. Realistically a sink is good for 30+ years, can't expect them to cover for the duration of it.

Originally posted by dj_patm
My condo board insurance is covering it and I'm responsible for covering their deductible which is close to 8 grand. My insurance will cover that and I'll have to cover my deductible and of course, a higher insurance rate going forward.

Yea, like I mentioned a few posts up, that's basically what happens.

Originally posted by dj_patm
As for understanding the warranty, Truman didn't even understand the warranty as they told me I'd be covered under the ANHWP. They included the ANHWP pamphlets in my possession date documents. I would definitely argue that the sink is part of the plumbing distribution as water flows in and out of it and it's drain is literally part of the plumbing distribution system for the dishwasher too but that's all a moot issue at this point.

Yea, that's a bit of a let down in that you didn't qualify on a technicality, but they still sold you on that. What can you do? I'm not sure, since you don't qualify for it you can't even dispute via ANHWP.

I always found it stupid that pre ANHWP that new homes only have a 1 year warranty. ANHWP fixed that a little bit but it can still be improved.