Teacher Fired for Having Opinion

[killramos]

Originally posted by spikerS
Emotionally, I agree Killramos, and as a knee jerk reaction, I am on your side...and then I remembered something...

Teachers should not be teaching their opinion, and instead should be presenting facts. My daughter came home in tears a few weeks back, and when I asked why, she said she was afraid of Donald Trump becoming president. When, pressed, she told me her teacher said a bunch of things and why it would be bad for Trump to be elected. This was to an 11 year old. It pissed me right off.

1, A teacher should not be teaching their political opinions to kids of that age
2, This wasn't part of the curriculum, but fear mongering and presented without much thought.

so yes, I understand the concern around him presenting his opinion on such a hot button topic like abortion, and I would have supported a private reprimand. However, anything more, and a public apology like that is over the top. I would have walked before it got to that step if I were in his shoes.

The biggest problem with the whole situation is the class was on the topic of morals and ethics. The very nature of which makes presenting pure facts pretty well impossible. At the end of the day I bet he regrets stating his opinion, but practically speaking there is literally no difference between saying " for example I find abortion morally wrong " and " Some people find abortion morally wrong". He was literally fired for replacing the word Some People and I.

Mind boggling.

Also:

There is an enormous difference between wanting union protection for someone, and saying someone should sue when they are VERY clearly wrongly dismissed.

Absolutely a private businesses right to fire anyone they want, but its still his right to sue them for firing him illegally. Seems open and shut to me. Certainly hope that school thinks that girls 30k a year is worth the settlement.

[A790]

Originally posted by Masked Bandit
Who could work in such an environment?

Well, not him (anymore).

[BrknFngrs]

Most importantly, how dare this student say that the teacher was a "man"!

It's unreasonable for them to assign a gender identity to the teacher; countless other students in the class could have been triggered by this spiteful and callous act!

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by killramos


Also:

There is an enormous difference between wanting union protection for someone, and saying someone should sue when they are VERY clearly wrongly dismissed.

Absolutely a private businesses right to fire anyone they want, but its still his right to sue them for firing him illegally. Seems open and shut to me. Certainly hope that school thinks that girls 30k a year is worth the settlement.

What's illegal about it, exactly?

[sputnik]

Anyone else watch the Nosedive episode of Black Mirror?

Perhaps we should just live in a society where whenever someone says something you don't like you down vote them until they become irrelevant and unemployable?

[max_boost]

Holy fk me lol

I find abortion to be wrong

Student Triggered

Apology too personal

Now unless this guy looked like rage2 movember + cul de sac A+ creepy lol what in the actual fk is going on lol

[01RedDX]

.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by max_boost
what in the actual fk is going on lol

Simple.

We currently are moving from an autonomous society (where we are allowed to determine for ourselves own moral perogatives) to a heteronomous society where the opinions of the few are dictated to the masses. An example of this would be Nazi fascism or an Islamic country like Iran or Saudi Arabia.

However we are currently in this transitional period where everyone still wants to believe that we have freedom of speech and even thought.

However that all quickly falls apart once you say something that someone else doesn't like or agree with. Then you get immediately labelled as hateful or as a bigot which can lead you to be fired from your job, arrested or publicly shamed to the point where you no longer can do anything without it hanging over your head.

So much for autonomy.

[95EagleAWD]

Originally posted by spikerS
Emotionally, I agree Killramos, and as a knee jerk reaction, I am on your side...and then I remembered something...

Teachers should not be teaching their opinion, and instead should be presenting facts. My daughter came home in tears a few weeks back, and when I asked why, she said she was afraid of Donald Trump becoming president. When, pressed, she told me her teacher said a bunch of things and why it would be bad for Trump to be elected. This was to an 11 year old. It pissed me right off.

1, A teacher should not be teaching their political opinions to kids of that age
2, This wasn't part of the curriculum, but fear mongering and presented without much thought.

so yes, I understand the concern around him presenting his opinion on such a hot button topic like abortion, and I would have supported a private reprimand. However, anything more, and a public apology like that is over the top. I would have walked before it got to that step if I were in his shoes.

He was presenting a fact. "I disagree with abortion laws" is a pretty good ethics discussion, no?

People let their opinions transfer to laws/rules all the time. Drugs, speeding, abortion, etc.

[killramos]

Originally posted by kertejud2


What's illegal about it, exactly?

Lets try Discrimination for a start?

Being a male with an opinion on abortion?

You know, any of those ridiculous things cited in the article which were implicit in his termination.

Oh right you are a member of that part of society who doesn't believe that while males can be discriminated against. My mistake...

[ickyflex]

Reminds me of this chick

[FraserB]

I'd be very confident in saying that she has a prior problem with this teacher and she was just using what society and our government have taught her about dealing with issues to her advantage.

Kids are being taught that if they want to shut down any discussion they don't agree with, all they need to do is claim they are "triggered" and run off to a higher authority. Since you can now apparently be dragged in front of the HRC for calling someone who looks like a man a man, instead of whatever nonsense they have mad up in their head that day, management is going to try and keep themselves out of that position by indulging the "triggered" people.

These people are soon going to be entering the workforce in larger numbers and this nonsense is to come with them. It will be near impossible to conduct a performance review, discuss poor performance or implement corrective actions. All someone would have to do is scream they were "triggered" by your refusal to treat and address them as the bi-gendered mailbox they identify as and you'll get tossed on your ass, if not dragged in front of the HRC.

I'd bet that a huge majority of people didn't give a shit about pronouns or anything like that before the whole PC/SJW/Tumblr/Identity Alphabet revolution. After seeing that it's now being taken to ridiculous extremes, most of those people are probably upset and against something they didn't really care about before. It wouldn't surprise me if this whole movement is like an elastic band, once people stretch it enough, it will snap back on them hard.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by 95EagleAWD


He was presenting a fact. "I disagree with abortion laws" is a pretty good ethics discussion, no?

People let their opinions transfer to laws/rules all the time. Drugs, speeding, abortion, etc.

No, I see a problem with that. A person in authority whose sole objective in their role is to teach people knowledge. And an opinion does not equal a fact. Ever. An opinion can be based on facts, or beliefs.

When a person whose role is to teach, when they present opinion, many will believe that they should think the same way, which may or may not align with many things that the family or culture believe in.

Opinions are not fact, and as such, should not be presented in a place where they can be confused with facts. Nor should such hot button topics be presented as opinion. There would be much better examples to use in the case of this teacher than abortion. It started with a stop sign, and then made an incredible leap to abortion.

I think the biggest issue was that he used abortion as the example. had he used something less emotionally charged, like say, city bike lanes, this would not be an issue.

And before this goes off any worse for the kid who complained, I would imagine that something significant may have happened in her past (Read she was preggo and aborted for whatever reason), in which case I fully understand her reaction to it. Having said that, if she was just being a special snowflake, then, yes, she should be thawed out.

[max_boost]

do they have this type of problem in asia? i guess i can always go back to where i came from lol

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by spikerS
No, I see a problem with that. A person in authority whose sole objective in their role is to teach people knowledge. And an opinion does not equal a fact. Ever. An opinion can be based on facts, or beliefs.

So now I am quite curious how you plan on teaching anything related to law and morals? There's no "facts" when discussing law and morality... It's all value based judgements.

There's no such thing as true facts in most topics unless you are talking hard sciences or mathematics. Social studies being a prime example where lots of things are not necessarily factual but based on things being most likely true. Are Jesus Christ and Mohammed historically real figures? Maybe... They have lots of things written about them and attributed to them. Can we say that it is a fact they existed? No, not in the classical sense of the word...

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by spikerS


I think the biggest issue was that he used abortion as the example. had he used something less emotionally charged, like say, city bike lanes, this would not be an issue.

Have you ever been to a bike lane debate? Basically people kind of wanting a few kids to die to justify building them yelling with people who would rather let a few kids die than put in a bike lane.

Suburban highways is where you don't get any pushback. Even in the GVA. A place where the latte sippers and yop gobblers don't intersect.

[speedog]

yop gobblers - love it.

[A790]

I think that there's a substantial difference between "I think abortion is wrong" and "abortion is wrong and here are the reasons why".

[HuMz]

Originally posted by spikerS


No, I see a problem with that. A person in authority whose sole objective in their role is to teach people knowledge. And an opinion does not equal a fact. Ever. An opinion can be based on facts, or beliefs.

When a person whose role is to teach, when they present opinion, many will believe that they should think the same way, which may or may not align with many things that the family or culture believe in.

Opinions are not fact, and as such, should not be presented in a place where they can be confused with facts. Nor should such hot button topics be presented as opinion. There would be much better examples to use in the case of this teacher than abortion. It started with a stop sign, and then made an incredible leap to abortion.

I think the biggest issue was that he used abortion as the example. had he used something less emotionally charged, like say, city bike lanes, this would not be an issue.

And before this goes off any worse for the kid who complained, I would imagine that something significant may have happened in her past (Read she was preggo and aborted for whatever reason), in which case I fully understand her reaction to it. Having said that, if she was just being a special snowflake, then, yes, she should be thawed out.

If educators are only left to teach brute facts, what do we do with all of the non-science and math courses that bring in subjective interpretation?

I also don't follow how an opinion can't ever equal a fact, yet you acknowledge that an opinion can be based on a fact. Stating that teachers ought to only teach facts and leave out opinions is an opinion in itself.

I think what your failing to recognize is that all statements have truth value, regardless of what someone's opinion is.

[dirtsniffer]

an opinion may be that earth is 10,000 years old, ain't no truth in that.