Cycle Track Made Permanent

[Mitsu3000gt]

I don't think you read my post at all...

You're telling me you see no room for error whatsoever in a public counter easily manipulated by literally anyone who passes by? We already know mass cycling events were regularly organized specifically with the intention of skewing the numbers, just to name one scenario.

Anyways, it's obvious you like the cycle track so you will selectively ignore all opposing information such as vehicle traffic statistics.

The decision to move from a place I liked wasn't an easy one and not something I did on a whim. I lived beside the 12th ave track since installation and spent a lot of time analyzing it. It ruined the area enough that it was easier to just leave. I lived there for 6 years before the track was put in so I am well aware of the conditions before and after. I also think everyone agrees that by far the poorest implementation of the track in the city was 12th ave, 2 blocks from an existing track which is much more popular due to there being so few stop lights, a main artery downtown, and one of the main routes to the Saddle Dome.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
I don't think you read my post at all...

You're telling me you see no room for error whatsoever in a public counter easily manipulated by literally anyone who passes by? We already know mass cycling events were regularly organized specifically with the intention of skewing the numbers, just to name one scenario.

Anyways, it's obvious you like the cycle track so you will selectively ignore all opposing information such as vehicle traffic statistics.

What you said is that the traffic wasn't there to justify the numbers, and when the traffic was there to justify the numbers it was fake traffic.

Why would you expect anybody to take such an impossible-to-please stance seriously?

I also think everyone agrees that by far the poorest implementation of the track in the city was 12th ave, 2 blocks from an existing track which is much more popular due to there being so few stop lights, a main artery downtown, and one of the main routes to the Saddle Dome.

Yeah I looked at the 10th Ave track when I would go up and down and it was never as popular as you say it was. Your data is skewed.

[RedDawn]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
I don't think you read my post at all...

You're telling me you see no room for error whatsoever in a public counter easily manipulated by literally anyone who passes by? We already know mass cycling events were regularly organized specifically with the intention of skewing the numbers, just to name one scenario.

Anyways, it's obvious you like the cycle track so you will selectively ignore all opposing information such as vehicle traffic statistics.

The decision to move from a place I liked wasn't an easy one and not something I did on a whim. I lived beside the 12th ave track since installation and spent a lot of time analyzing it. It ruined the area enough that it was easier to just leave. I lived there for 6 years before the track was put in so I am well aware of the conditions before and after. I also think everyone agrees that by far the poorest implementation of the track in the city was 12th ave, 2 blocks from an existing track which is much more popular due to there being so few stop lights, a main artery downtown, and one of the main routes to the Saddle Dome.

So, they've been organizing mass cycling events every single day of the bike lanes existence? If you open up the cycle data webpage, the data is pretty consistent. By your logic, the only way that could be happening is because they've organized mass cycling events for ~500 days straight now.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by RedDawn


So, they've been organizing mass cycling events every single day of the bike lanes existence? If you open up the cycle data webpage, the data is pretty consistent. By your logic, the only way that could be happening is because they've organized mass cycling events for ~500 days straight now.

See, you aren't reading. Nowhere did I say anything even remotely close to the words that you have chosen for me above. This is a pointless discussion.

The issue is that they took 4 free-flowing lanes and made it a single free-flowing lane to accommodate approximately 1/25th the volume compared to vehicle traffic (and that's assuming only one person in every car which is not the case), or more like 1/1000th of the volume in bad weather. That is the main problem in my opinion and the one that had a very significant, negative daily effect on the area.

Also unless you live along 12th ave and use it daily, I don't think you have any idea what I'm talking about.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt


See, you aren't reading. Nowhere did I say anything even remotely close to the words that you have chosen for me above. This is a pointless discussion.

there is no way their numbers are accurate on the sections I could see or the sections I walked along daily unless the majority of riders come out in the middle of the night, which I think is highly unlikely.

and

social media would drum up all the hipsters and Nenshi lovers and organize large numbers of people to ride up and down the cycle tracks all day to heavily skew numbers

So which is it? Are the numbers only accurate if people are riding at night or are they drumming up large numbers of people to ride up and down the tracks all day?

In other words, you don't believe the numbers they are using because you don't see the people to justify them, but if you do see the people to justify them it is because they're faking it. These are your words, if you want to clear them up go right ahead.

[rx7_turbo2]

Was anyone shocked by this? I think we all knew this was a "pilot" project in name only.

I know a few people who live on 12th and none of them believe The City's numbers based on their own observations. That's anecdotal though and will always play second fiddle to the data collected by The City. I don't believe there's one clandestine entity fudging numbers and manipulating data. I do think there's a few different groups who have worked hard to make sure things have gone their way, but that's true of the supporters of any cause. My big issue is the implementation of some of these projects, and people willing to throw support behind them simply because they support the ideology behind bike ridership, regardless of how flawed the design may be.

For the record, I've personally viewed the counter tally 2 events when only one occurred. Just happened to be walking by on my way to a meeting and figured I'd stop for a moment and watch. Could be a "one off" but I got a chuckle none the less.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2


For the record, I've personally viewed the counter tally 2 events when only one occurred. Just happened to be walking by on my way to a meeting and figured I'd stop for a moment and watch. Could be a "one off" but I got a chuckle none the less.

Not a one-off. I have watched it many times on many different days and have witnessed double, and even occasional triple counts from a single event.

Like you say, it was never just a "pilot" project, I think everyone knew that. I moved before the final announcement and the outcome was exactly as expected.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
Not a one-off. I have watched it many times on many different days and have witnessed double, and even occasional triple counts from a single event.

Like you say, it was never just a "pilot" project, I think everyone knew that. I moved before the final announcement and the outcome was exactly as expected.

Did you notify anyone of the discrepancy? I sent an email to my Councillor, who happens to be Sean Chu. I should have taken a video but I'm honestly kinda over it, I've always seen this project as a permanent thing that had little to no chance of being scrapped regardless. I don't live downtown and my new job very rarely sees me having to go down there so....

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
Was anyone shocked by this? I think we all knew this was a "pilot" project in name only.

Ironically the bike groups didn't.

8-7 to implement with not super enthusiastic support from some of the suburban councilors (Chabot, Keating, and Pootmans) had people less than optimistic about it getting through unscathed. 5th was the only surefire leg.

So it getting through with just a report on 12th, with two councilors flipping. Not what people supporting the track expected at all.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by kertejud2
Ironically the bike groups didn't.

8-7 to implement with not super enthusiastic support from some of the suburban councilors (Chabot, Keating, and Pootmans) had people less than optimistic about it getting through unscathed. 5th was the only surefire leg.

So it getting through with just a report on 12th, with two councilors flipping. Not what people supporting the track expected at all.

Drivers felt the writing was on the wall. Cyclists felt if they wanted it to be permanent they'd have to work for it, I guess it's like everything depends on what side you found yourself on.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2

Did you notify anyone of the discrepancy? I sent an email to my Councillor, who happens to be Sean Chu. I should have taken a video but I'm honestly kinda over it, I've always seen this project as a permanent thing that had little to no chance of being scrapped regardless. I don't live downtown and my new job very rarely sees me having to go down there so....

No, I firmly believe it would have been a complete waste of time and we all know any investigation would have just been for optics. I think no matter what the ridership numbers show they city would leave it in place.

I don't live in the Beltline on 12th ave anymore so it doesn't affect me nearly as much, but it was truly awful and the reason I left.

I fully support bike lanes in general, just not the way many of them have been implemented, negatively affecting over 95% of that road's traffic to keep under 5% happy and only when the weather is ideal for riding.

[RY213]

I drive 12th Ave every day in the morning and never had any issues with the flow of traffic. Seems to me a lot of people are just upset with any kind of change. The bike lanes are fantastic for people living in the core.

[msommers]

Originally posted by RY213
I drive 12th Ave every day in the morning and never had any issues with the flow of traffic. Seems to me a lot of people are just upset with any kind of change. The bike lanes are fantastic for people living in the core.

You drive AND you aren't bothered?! You dirty Communist!

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by RY213
I drive 12th Ave every day in the morning and never had any issues with the flow of traffic. Seems to me a lot of people are just upset with any kind of change. The bike lanes are fantastic for people living in the core.

That's crap 12th is a cluster fuck every morning. Between the random lane jogs, the random parked cars which drop the road to a single lane and the fact that turning left is sketch as fuck in and out of driveways due to parked cars/trucks next to the cycle track being taller than cyclists...

I live on 12th and bike downtown it's such a epic shit show of fail. Whole thing should have been scrapped and moved to either 10th or 13th. Instead we got this half assed retard solution.

[Type_S1]

Don't argue with the bike guy. He either works directly for the city on these projects or is leading an extremist peddle bike group. Either way the guy ignores logical arguments against bike lanes because he is an extremist when it comes to the topic.

As other posters said, this was never a pilot project....these things were here to stay and Nenshi et. Al. once again are pandering to their own ideological beliefs instead of what the majority of citizens want in the city. The next step will be banning cars in the core....

[know1edge]

.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by rx7_turbo2

Drivers felt the writing was on the wall. Cyclists felt if they wanted it to be permanent they'd have to work for it, I guess it's like everything depends on what side you found yourself on.

I've said it before, that it can't possibly matter as much as the drivers have been whining about if they didn't do anything.

Again, it was a shaky 8-7 that was based around making the track network smaller vote that managed to turn into a 10-4 vote without changes when the data was presented and councilors dealt with their constituents. Despite affecting 'over 95% of traffic negatively' these councilors apparently care more about ideology (in some cases that they didn't even have the first time) than re-election. I guess we have some pretty unique politicians in this city (or very few that plan on running again).

[BMDUBS]

Plain old idiocy is what this is. I agree with the sentiment that this was never a pilot project.The construction of this was far too elaborate to be a pilot. The link to the Manning center report goes to show how blatantly this was pushed through. It actually disgusts me.

I can give two shits about the incompetent Councillors that voted for this or flipped.This project defies logic and ignores the greater good. That is what bothers me about this the most.

I strongly disagree with the majority having to accommodate the minority for this project and all other situations where minority or special interest groups get precedence. I believe it needs to be the other way around where majority rules. I no longer live in the core so this doesn't directly effect me but I lived for 28 years in this area and rode my bike all around these areas without issue on the existing roads sharing the lanes drivers.

We are a winter City for fuck sakes where it is too cold to ride more often than not. Sickens me that projects like this get pushed through and shoved down our throats on the tax payers dollars.

[J-hop]

Originally posted by RY213
I drive 12th Ave every day in the morning and never had any issues with the flow of traffic. Seems to me a lot of people are just upset with any kind of change. The bike lanes are fantastic for people living in the core.

Yes it's fine if you drive it every day and have memorized which lane jogs, which lane turns into a left turn only and at what time. But the one or two people in your group of traffic that don't know end up snarling the rest of traffic making for a really inefficient route.

When you design efficient roads you need to go in with the mindset that every driver is driving the road for the first time and make decisions and signage based on this idea NOT with the mindset that people will eventually get it.

I drive that road every couple of weeks, I know which lane to be in and when. But every time I drive it I just shake my head. If it's your first time driving it and snow is covering the lane markings it will be an absolute nightmare.

At least in the short term this has definitely caused a negative environmental impact...

[JfuckinC]

Originally posted by kertejud2


I've said it before, that it can't possibly matter as much as the drivers have been whining about if they didn't do anything.

Or it's the same reason we don't bike to work, we don't have the time/are lazy