Abortion or not?

[J-hop]

Originally posted by LadyLuck





The gals on beyond are just hanging out in the background watching you guys argue about something you will never truly understand or have to experience.

Carry on...

In a way I agree but a friend of mine (male) went through a miscarriage and it absolutely devastated him. Sure the bond was probably stronger between his wife and the baby as she carried it and physically went through it, but that doesn't mean he didn't suffer horribly from it.

Same can be said about abortions. unless you're trailer trash the decision should be a horrible one for both involved.

But I do agree that in reality most of the time the male checks out like a piece of shit.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by LadyLuck
The gals on beyond are just hanging out in the background watching you guys argue about something you will never truly understand or have to experience.

Carry on...

That's a very ignorant thing to suggest that men never understand a loss of a baby in the womb of their wife.
You don't know what I or other men have gone through and you don't know what other women have gone through to judge them against each other.

I won't understand the physical pain and some aspects of the emotion but that doesn't mean I don't feel emotion and can't grasp the emotional effects of losing a child.

That's like saying a woman that losese a first trimester will never TRUELY understand a women who loses a child in the second.

What an ignorant statement that adds nothing to the conversation, and just points out that you don't have a husband and have never had a child yourself.
I could put the same bogus statement to you and say since you have never had an abortion or lost a child in the womb you don't know the true moral effects of such things and are not qualified to even enter this thread.

[LadyLuck]

^ Ah yes, typical Modelexis fashion. Such passion, assumption and general know-it-all about every topic out there.

[Modelexis]

Typical LadyLuck, throwing stones from glass houses with no leg to stand on, doubling down when called out on her BS.
Cold, emotionless, void of logic or any debate skills.

[msommers]

To be fair, the majority of women in developed nations will "never truly understand or have to experience" abortion either, exactly the same as every single man on this planet. I would suggest that the commonality breaks when the woman starts to be physically and emotionally impacted by a pregnancy the very first time in her life.

[LadyLuck]

Originally posted by Modelexis


That's a very ignorant thing to suggest that men never understand a loss of a baby in the womb of their wife.
You don't know what I or other men have gone through and you don't know what other women have gone through to judge them against each other.

I won't understand the physical pain and some aspects of the emotion but that doesn't mean I don't feel emotion and can't grasp the emotional effects of losing a child.

That's like saying a woman that losese a first trimester will never TRUELY understand a women who loses a child in the second.

What an ignorant statement that adds nothing to the conversation, and just points out that you don't have a husband and have never had a child yourself.
I could put the same bogus statement to you and say since you have never had an abortion or lost a child in the womb you don't know the true moral effects of such things and are not qualified to even enter this thread.

Nowhere in my post did I suggest that men would never understand the loss of a baby, nor would I ever dare to suggest something like that as it is extremely ignorant.

My comment is directed at the fact that you guys are arguing about the legality of it and making this sound like women just go out to get abortions without a single thought or care in the world when there are MANY reasons why abortions may be necessary. God forbid a bunch of women ever tried to dictate what a man should do with his body, men around the world would go nuclear.

The rest of your post I will ignore, you keep throwing the word “ignorant” around but your own post oozes with so much ignorance. Please don’t pretend you know anything about my personal life, just like I won’t pretend to know anything about yours.

[Gestalt]

Originally posted by LadyLuck





The gals on beyond are just hanging out in the background watching you guys argue about something you will never truly understand or have to experience.

Carry on...

If you say so.

[ZenOps]

I have no strong feelings either way, but do not disagree or agree with anyones opinions on this subject - Correct answer.

[rage2]

Originally posted by LadyLuck
God forbid a bunch of women ever tried to dictate what a man should do with his body, men around the world would go nuclear.

To be fair, of the US lawmakers in the House of Representatives that are pro life, over half are women. That compares to a 20% women representation in total, so if anything, women wants to dictate what women should do with their bodies more so than men.

Moot point in Canada as it's all legal anyways.

[duaner]

Originally posted by Seth1968


So you're saying there exists a justifiable reason to kill a fetus?

In an ectopic pregnancy.

Originally posted by Seth1968

I would say this is justified:

"Killing" isn't by necessity, a bad thing. In the specific regard to abortion, would it be ok for a woman to abort a fetus that has no limbs and no cerebral cortex?

Let's deal with one at a time. Would it be justified to abort a baby that would be born with no limbs? Why or why not?

I say no because having limbs isn't what determines if one is human.

[duaner]

Originally posted by Modelexis

You're playing with words, a massive part of the debate is how do you define life or alive or conscious etc. Just adding in a word 'born' to mean a living being offers nothing for clarity sake it just adds more words for the same problem.

I didn't add the word "born". I don't think you understood what I stated.

Originally posted by Modelexis
As stated before, a heart beat is one medical measurement to determine a living being from a dead one, so in that context a fetus with a heart beat would in fact be living.

Of course. But first question that needs to be asked is: How do we determine what is human in the first place?

Originally posted by Modelexis
A baby can be born but not alive, it's called a stillbirth, the word born means nothing in the context of this debate.

I never said the word "born" means anything.

My question is: What is the unborn? That is the one and only question that needs to be answered in this whole debate.

[duaner]

Originally posted by LadyLuck





The gals on beyond are just hanging out in the background watching you guys argue about something you will never truly understand or have to experience.

What are you saying? What, specifically, does having to experience something or truly understand it have to do with debating it?

[duaner]

Originally posted by LadyLuck


arguing about the legality of it and making this sound like women just go out to get abortions without a single thought or care in the world when there are MANY reasons why abortions may be necessary.

As I stated earlier, there is only one question that needs to be asked: What is the unborn?

If the unborn is truly an unborn human person, then abortion is murder. So what possible reason, other than an ectopic pregnancy, would one have to make an abortion necessary? You say there are many. I can think of only one.

Originally posted by LadyLuck

God forbid a bunch of women ever tried to dictate what a man should do with his body, men around the world would go nuclear.

Is this just in relation to this particular discussion which happens to have a lot of men, or do you say this in general, to all pro-lifers, which would include a whole lot of women?

Do you think a woman has the right to do whatever she wants to her own body?

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by LadyLuck

there are MANY reasons why abortions may be necessary. God forbid a bunch of women ever tried to dictate what a man should do with his body, men around the world would go nuclear.

There really isn't. 98% of abortions are of convienience/not taking responsibilities for ones actions.

As for dictating what men should do with their bodies... Oh I dont know.

1. Absurd alimony payments causing thousands of men to be destitute while supporting woman who have children, all while working insane hours or being called a deadbeat.

2. The draft (which could possibly be changed in 2018, but currently isnt). Men have literally been FORCED against their will to die for their country. Lucky break for the women eh?

Those are two things off the top of my head I can think of that directly impact a mans choices in life and what he does with his body (or worse, his life). So yea, keep crying oh woah is women.

[LadyLuck]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


There really isn't. 98% of abortions are of convienience/not taking responsibilities for ones actions.

As for dictating what men should do with their bodies... Oh I dont know.

1. Absurd alimony payments causing thousands of men to be destitute while supporting woman who have children, all while working insane hours or being called a deadbeat.

2. The draft (which could possibly be changed in 2018, but currently isnt). Men have literally been FORCED against their will to die for their country. Lucky break for the women eh?

Those are two things off the top of my head I can think of that directly impact a mans choices in life and what he does with his body (or worse, his life). So yea, keep crying oh woah is women.

Sure thing, can you also include the stats of where you found that 98% of abortions are for convenience/not taking responsibility, I'm interested.

Many of women have joined the military as well as many of them killed in action, so don't go all macho on me.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


There really isn't. 98% of abortions are of convienience/not taking responsibilities for ones actions.

» Click image for larger version

2. The draft (which could possibly be changed in 2018, but currently isnt). Men have literally been FORCED against their will to die for their country. Lucky break for the women eh?

Convention in Canada is to now have a plebiscite regarding conscription after the two times it happened nearly ripped the country apart. The second time saw overwhelming support in English Canada but overwhelming opposition in French Canada. This meant less than 5000 conscripts were sent to Europe in WWII and less than 100 died.

The time before that, women weren't allowed to vote. So who are we really going to blame?


Quite an example you picked there. Two instances in extraordinary circumstances, the most recent of which was approved by plebiscite and occurred over 70 years ago.

[Gestalt]

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/poli...abreasons.html

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Gestalt
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/poli...abreasons.html

Interesting read.

I always assumed that the 98% figure was skewed or exaggerated.

I guess not.

[Sugarphreak]

....

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by duaner
Let's deal with one at a time. Would it be justified to abort a baby that would be born with no limbs? Why or why not?

Because its life would probably be absolute misery. Another factor would be care cost, as well as the negative repercussions on any other kids in the family. That is, all the parents time would be consumed by this one child, while the others get basically ignored.

The epitome of selfishness and self righteousness is not aborting when the consequences are detrimental to all involved.

Girl born ‘without brain’ is now 6 years old, but struggling for life