More police issues with CPS this time from the Police Watchdog ASIRT

[gwill]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...hson-1.4005029

Police watchdog ASIRT accuses Calgary force of protecting its own with 'unprincipled' practices

Interesting to see the police watchdog put CPS on blast for many major concerns. Of course we only see this because the media did a bunch of FOIP requests.

Interesting to note ASIRT being concerned about:
CPS disclosing evidence gathered against the subject officer to his or her lawyer while the investigation is still underway and before the Crown has decided whether to recommend charges.

I actually had this exact issue come up during a 3 year long complaint i had filed with the professional standards branch. Our resident cop downplayed the fact all of my interviews, recordings and evidence were provided to the police officers i made a complaint against even though my complaint was still being investigated.

The article states CPS was providing this data to officers well before they had provided their own statements. From the article:

"I am unaware of any other type of investigation where the fruits of the investigation are shared with the subject of that investigation before it has even concluded," wrote Hughson.

"Furthermore, I cannot imagine a more unprincipled practice that has the obvious potential outcome of tainting any statement the subject officer could provide and leaving it fraught with the possibility of tailoring to be consistent with the evidence of other witnesses."

But CPS admits this is common practice.

In my case I had my investigator completely avoid speaking to my witness, asked another to lie for him and told this witness he would make me go away once she provided him what he wanted. They also provided everything to the lawyers very early into the investigation(of which phil blasted me for it being normal). It took me multiple appeals and requests for information to see all the non sense that was happening. But the officers get everything and everything before their statements are even taken...

Good to see the watchdog is aware and trying to change the issues. We may actually get real impartial investigations done that aren't spent protecting their own.

[Gestalt]

So the only write their own statement of events, after they have everyone elses? This is so they cant get caught in a lie. That's completely unethical and inappropriate.

A lot of accountability should be present and trasnparancy in anyone serving the public.

[gwill]

I know its mind boggling. It makes no sense as to why they do that unless their intention was to help the police officers. I said before that the investigations arent very fare and are very biased. Phil called me all sorts of names as he defended the investigatory process.

Phil actually said its normal to hand over everything to the officers.. which cps does but the police watchdog doesnt agree.

Can anyone give a good reason for why the police should be allowed to do this?

[Buster]

Law enforcement has made protecting its own interest a priority over public safety since the dawn of time. It's probably way better now, than it ever has been.

But it will ALWAYS be that way.

[sr20s14zenki]

Absolute power corrupts, absolutely.

[Feruk]

We give government employees (cops, soldiers, politicians to some extent, etc) powers above and beyond any average citizen, and yet the penalties for fucking up are the same or more minor ("protecting their own"). That's insanely unbalanced. I believe that if a cop is caught breaking the law with intent and pre-planning while on duty (or using the fact that he's a cop), the maximum possible penalty should instantly double.

[RickDaTuner]

Not that I'm defending this practice.

But...

Can you imagine how many dirty, dishonest, and manipulative cops there actually are in the CPS?
I'd imagine about 60% of the force would be in jail.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Feruk
We give government employees (cops, soldiers, politicians to some extent, etc) powers above and beyond any average citizen, and yet the penalties for fucking up are the same or more minor ("protecting their own&quot. That's insanely unbalanced. I believe that if a cop is caught breaking the law with intent and pre-planning while on duty (or using the fact that he's a cop), the maximum possible penalty should instantly double.

Look at all the political, corporate, banking, etc, scandals and crimes. Usually no one gets charged let alone convicted, or if some are convicted, they get a slap on the wrist.

The rest of us peasants? GUILTY until proven innocent, and you can be damned sure your life will forever be fucked up.

This vast and encompassing injustice has occurred since day one, and will continue until we put an end to self righteousness (elitism) and a judicial system that heavily favors monetary value instead of human value.

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by RickDaTuner
Not that I'm defending this practice.

But...

Can you imagine how many dirty, dishonest, and manipulative cops there actually are in the CPS?
I'd imagine about 60% of the force would be in jail.

So this is basically just a big anti-cop fest. I get it. Yes, there are issues with what they can do and what we cannot. Yes, clearly there are issues inside the department which need to be addressed. I'm absolutely not downplaying these things nor do I believe they are acceptable, but I would imagine most forces deal with the inequality to a large degree, as well as questionable practices.... perhaps to a smaller degree.

However, making statements like 60% of the force being in jail is not even remotely close to real numbers. Now, should 60% of the force have been reprimanded for actions they took at some point in their careers, but it was instead conveniently "overlooked"? Very possibly - I honestly couldn't say either way, but making statements like this is similar to what we are seeing in the USA from Trump. Suggestions without any realistic backing, and fear mongering. It doesn't help anyone.

[gwill]

Its interesting to note that cps isnt on record yet saying theyll change their practices. As of now they are looking into things for ASIRT.

Is it that hard to have an unbiased investigation, Whats their to look into?

[revelations]

Im sure the CPS is hoping that this will just go away. I dont believe ASIRT has any power to actually recommend changes to the Police Act.

As for 60% of the force in jail? No way - maybe 40% (jk) ....

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Kloubek
However, making statements like 60% /snip/.

Whatever the number, you can be darn sure for that every 1 such instance, there's a hell of a lot more that the public will never know about.

[gwill]

Originally posted by revelations
Im sure the CPS is hoping that this will just go away. I dont believe ASIRT has any power to actually recommend changes to the Police Act.

As for 60% of the force in jail? No way - maybe 40% (jk) ....

Im not sure asking for proper protocols to avoid tainting an internal investigation has anything to do with the police act. These are police officers who deal with investigations on a daily basis. They know exactly what they are doing but dont care.

They dont treat criminals the same way so why are we treating potential crimes by the police differently.

[Gestalt]

Originally posted by Feruk
We give government employees (cops, soldiers, politicians to some extent, etc) powers above and beyond any average citizen, and yet the penalties for fucking up are the same or more minor ("protecting their own&quot. That's insanely unbalanced. I believe that if a cop is caught breaking the law with intent and pre-planning while on duty (or using the fact that he's a cop), the maximum possible penalty should instantly double.

I absolutely agree. Violating your power or trust or whatever should automatically earn a stiffer penalty. Also because more than that, you are a role model.

[Gestalt]

Originally posted by Kloubek


So this is basically just a big anti-cop fest. I get it. Yes, there are issues with what they can do and what we cannot. Yes, clearly there are issues inside the department which need to be addressed. I'm absolutely not downplaying these things nor do I believe they are acceptable, but I would imagine most forces deal with the inequality to a large degree, as well as questionable practices.... perhaps to a smaller degree.

However, making statements like 60% of the force being in jail is not even remotely close to real numbers. Now, should 60% of the force have been reprimanded for actions they took at some point in their careers, but it was instead conveniently "overlooked"? Very possibly - I honestly couldn't say either way, but making statements like this is similar to what we are seeing in the USA from Trump. Suggestions without any realistic backing, and fear mongering. It doesn't help anyone.

This is a serious matter. We need to nip this in the butt before it turns into what we see in the US where a traffic stop for a tail light can end a person's life without consequences.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by Gestalt


We need to nip this in the butt ....

You ARE joking here, right?
I've never actually seen anyone do this.



If not: https://www.forbes.com/sites/dailymu.../#6defa7e950c0

[revelations]

Originally posted by gwill


Im not sure asking for proper protocols to avoid tainting an internal investigation has anything to do with the police act. These are police officers who deal with investigations on a daily basis. They know exactly what they are doing but dont care.

They dont treat criminals the same way so why are we treating potential crimes by the police differently.

Yea I am not up on the Police Act and how it works in AB regarding this matter.

ASIRT is just a group of people (my limited understanding) that can point things out and MAKE suggestions, but have very little to do with actually pushing forward legislation.

Thats up to the public to request and the elected officials to enact.

[RickDaTuner]

Originally posted by Kloubek


So this is basically just a big anti-cop fest. I get it. Yes, there are issues with what they can do and what we cannot. Yes, clearly there are issues inside the department which need to be addressed. I'm absolutely not downplaying these things nor do I believe they are acceptable, but I would imagine most forces deal with the inequality to a large degree, as well as questionable practices.... perhaps to a smaller degree.

However, making statements like 60% of the force being in jail is not even remotely close to real numbers. Now, should 60% of the force have been reprimanded for actions they took at some point in their careers, but it was instead conveniently "overlooked"? Very possibly - I honestly couldn't say either way, but making statements like this is similar to what we are seeing in the USA from Trump. Suggestions without any realistic backing, and fear mongering. It doesn't help anyone.

I guess I misstated my point.

It was more an exaggeration to the previous comment.

The fact of the matter is that cops are human, and even the most honourable of us has messed up once or twice, and with that statistic in mind, no one is really safe from the true letter of the law.

I personally don't hate law enforcement, I just dislike the good ole boys club that is evidently still in practice.

[Gestalt]

Originally posted by C_Dave45

You ARE joking here, right?
I've never actually seen anyone do this.



If not: https://www.forbes.com/sites/dailymu.../#6defa7e950c0

Its like duck tape. Everyone thinks they are being clever correcting me, calling it duct tape. They are wrong. Before I became a mechanic, I did HVAC, and no one uses duct tape on ducts. But duck tape is a brand of the cloth tape we love to use on everything else. For ducts, we have sealants and foil tape. Duck tape was invented in ww2 for the military.

[Disoblige]

Originally posted by Gestalt


Its like duck tape. Everyone thinks they are being clever correcting me, calling it duct tape. They are wrong. Before I became a mechanic, I did HVAC, and no one uses duct tape on ducts. But duck tape is a brand of the cloth tape we love to use on everything else. For ducts, we have sealants and foil tape. Duck tape was invented in ww2 for the military.

How would duct vs duck tape be anything like what you made a mistake on?

You're saying originally it was supposed to be "nip it in the butt?"