Social Taboo - Regret having children

[stevelou]

We have 3 and no regrets so far. Sure there are times that we look at our single or DINK friends and wonder what life would be like but in no way is it a regret. IMO the good times far out weigh the bad, frustrating, straight up disgusting times. The cost can be a hard bit to swallow especially now as our oldest is starting sports and other activities. Ask me in 5 to 7 years though and my tune might have changed as I've been blessed with 3 girls........

[blitz]

It crazy how worked up people can get about this on both sides.If you replaced the word "kids" with "dogs" people would just accept peoples answers without question.

"Why do you want a dog?"
"I like dogs, I think it would be a good experience"

and

"Why aren't you getting a dog"
"I don't really want to"

It's as simple as that, if you want some, have some. If not, don't. There are enough shitty people in this world already.

As far as admitting you regret having kids, that's a pretty fucking horrible thing to say aloud about a human being that looks up to you. That being said, there are probably lots out there and it gets expressed though uninvolved shitty parents.

[Swank]

Originally posted by JordanEG6
I thought I was the only one who thought it was straight up rude to ask, like "What is your bra size?" and "How money do you make?"

Or how about "When are you due?" only to find out the chubster isn't pregnant

[ExtraSlow]

Originally posted by blitz
As far as admitting you regret having kids, that's a pretty fucking horrible thing to say aloud about a human being that looks up to you. That being said, there are probably lots out there and it gets expressed though uninvolved shitty parents.

I submit that it's possible to be a loving and involved parent and still regret your choice to become one.

[jwslam]

Originally posted by blitz
It crazy how worked up people can get about this on both sides.If you replaced the word "kids" with "dogs" people would just accept peoples answers without question.

"Why do you want a dog?"
"I like dogs, I think it would be a good experience"

and

"Why aren't you getting a dog"
"I don't really want to"

It's as simple as that, if you want some, have some. If not, don't. There are enough shitty people in this world already.

Now replace that with "cats", and every woman on earth comes after me for hating cats.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Melinda]

Originally posted by jwslam

Now replace that with "cats", and every woman on earth comes after me for hating cats.

A shocking number of women actually hate cats. You're safe I think

[jwslam]

Originally posted by Melinda
A shocking number of women actually hate cats. You're safe I think

I must be hanging out with the wrong crowd.

[blitz]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
I submit that it's possible to be a loving and involved parent and still regret your choice to become one.

Definitely, that's the stand up way to handle the situation.

[JordanEG6]

Originally posted by blitz
It crazy how worked up people can get about this on both sides.If you replaced the word "kids" with "dogs" people would just accept peoples answers without question.

That is exactly it though. I won't exactly voice my opinion aggressively or get physically worked up about it in person. But the reason why it may seem that way for a lot of folks including me is because the majority is faced with pressure from society/other parents to have children and then having to justify the life choice of not having them is exhausting and annoying. And at the end of the day, it's no one else's business other than mine and my partners.

People shouldn't even ask, but if someone does, it should be a "yes" or "no" question. End of story.

[baygirl]

Originally posted by Seth1968



So ladies, did you have this inexplicable urge?

I always knew I wanted a child. I have no idea why, I just knew I wanted to be mom. I have no regrets, just a little jealously towards people with free time:-/

[Seth1968]

So for the ladies that felt this urge, would you say it was a physical, psychological, or both?

[timdog]

it's a sign of prosperity and wealth that this discussion is even taking place. the richer the community/country, the lower the fertility rate. the poorer the country, the higher the rate. true in almost every case. Fertility rate by income (from Wikipedia):

Economic Income
1 Low income countries 4.8
2 Lower middle income countries 2.8
3 Low and middle income countries 2.6
4 Middle income countries 2.4
5 Upper middle income countries 1.8
6 High income countries 1.7


there are alot of conclusions you could draw from this, but it definitely makes me think: when people have safety, money and health, you would almost logically assume that they would have more kids, but the statistics show the opposite. kinda weird? the Freakonomics podcast had an episode about this. they've done some studies and have some theories, but dont really understand it I dont think. perhaps living in a place like Canada affords people the freedom of being able to travel, or focus on hobbies/passions, etc, and thus they logically weigh the impact of having kids on those things and more often choose not to...?

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by timdog
Fertility rate by income (from Wikipedia):

Economic Income
1 Low income countries 4.8
2 Lower middle income countries 2.8
3 Low and middle income countries 2.6
4 Middle income countries 2.4
5 Upper middle income countries 1.8
6 High income countries 1.7


there are alot of conclusions you could draw from this /snip/

RE: Low income countries:

1) No contraception, or religion prohibits it.
2) High incidence of unreported rape.
3) Laws that prohibit female rights and education.
4) Poor farmers that need slave labor.

[Sasuke_Kensai]

Originally posted by timdog
it's a sign of prosperity and wealth that this discussion is even taking place. the richer the community/country, the lower the fertility rate. the poorer the country, the higher the rate. true in almost every case. Fertility rate by income (from Wikipedia):

Economic Income
1 Low income countries 4.8
2 Lower middle income countries 2.8
3 Low and middle income countries 2.6
4 Middle income countries 2.4
5 Upper middle income countries 1.8
6 High income countries 1.7


there are alot of conclusions you could draw from this, but it definitely makes me think: when people have safety, money and health, you would almost logically assume that they would have more kids, but the statistics show the opposite. kinda weird? the Freakonomics podcast had an episode about this. they've done some studies and have some theories, but dont really understand it I dont think. perhaps living in a place like Canada affords people the freedom of being able to travel, or focus on hobbies/passions, etc, and thus they logically weigh the impact of having kids on those things and more often choose not to...?

I think that's a big one. Basically selfishness and not wanting to give up affluent comforts (yes having kids is selfish too, humans are just selfish haha). The more money you have, sometimes the fear of "losing" it is greater which might extend to fear of not providing for the kids. The richer you are it seems that more wealth might get allocated proportionally to each kid (put them in private school, get a new safe car, etc.). Plus the more you make, the nicer the things you (still) want, and as money increases you want more categories. Get a nice house, well now you need nice furniture and a nice car to go with it. Bigger house, well you need to fill up all the space with the hobbies/sports you think you'll do, nature abhors a vacuum. I think the increasing fear of seeing higher amounts of money/income get closer to zero, plus the costs of desired items increasing faster than income, together lower the rate of babies.

I guess spending more time on education and career would impact things a lot for both genders. More women likely pursue careers in developed nations which should lower birth rates.

In the poorer countries, children are less likely to survive so I think the thought is that the more children you have, then more are likely to make it to adulthood. Less money and education about contraception, causes of birth, finances, etc. I doubt many parents in poverty would sit down and hammer out statistics to see how many they are likely to end up with.

None of this is based on anything solid. Just thoughts based on readings/hearsay/anecdotes over the years.

[jwslam]

Originally posted by Seth1968
RE: Low income countries:

1) No contraception, or religion prohibits it.
2) High incidence of unreported rape.
3) Laws that prohibit female rights and education.
4) Poor farmers that need slave labor.

Other observations:

1) Life in general is more expensive because of luxuries. If I didn't buy myself an iPad, I could feed my kid for a few months. And then there's the time & money I could be spending on golf/skiing/vacations/you name it; all of that time and money could be alternatively spent on children.
2) Living costs are so much more when an average home is maybe 3 or 4 people in 1500sqft, whereas somewhere like Asia they're 6 people in 700 sqft. Plus most of those people don't even dream to own and are renting for life.
3) Availability of things like IUD's and vasectomies
4) Education costs are expensive, whereas in low income countries the general population is on lower levels of education too.
5) Child care costs incurred for dual income couples; it's so much cheaper to have one mom at home with 4 kids than it is to pay for 4 kids to go to day care / juggling school times.
6) More personal income means I'm not banking on multiple children for retirement anyways.

[Sugarphreak]

....

[benyl]

Originally posted by Sasuke_Kensai

In the poorer countries, children are less likely to survive so I think the thought is that the more children you have, then more are likely to make it to adulthood. Less money and education about contraception, causes of birth, finances, etc. I doubt many parents in poverty would sit down and hammer out statistics to see how many they are likely to end up with.

In some countries, the poor reproduce in an effort to have a larger household workforce. The more kids you have, the more money you can bring into the family. It doesn't take long to have a kid sitting in the dirty street begging for money. As they get older, they can work in sweatshops for little money. Quantity over Quality. Not that they have a choice in providing Quality.

IMO anyway.

[min_boost]

I am so glad my parent had me. They give me lots of $$$, whatever cars I want and tons of baller things to make me look more baller to the world lol. They don't need that much just my presence in return.

[reiRei]

Originally posted by Seth1968
So for the ladies that felt this urge, would you say it was a physical, psychological, or both?

I am probably one of the few ladies who hasn't felt the urge. Just turned 31 last year and just haven't really had the urge to want to have a kid.

For me, the reasons for not having a kid were psychological - Asian parents scared me off of having any sort of relationships growing up, so that messed me up for a while. Just recently left a relationship that was bordering on abusive - he wanted a kid to carry on his knowledge (riiight), his mom wanted me to have kids and would ask at EVERY opportunity when we were going to have a kid. It was frustrating to have this woman constantly beg for me to change my body and life so she could have something to cuddle and fawn over.

Now that I'm out of that relationship, I can't see myself even considering having a kid without being completely stable in my new life.

That said, I have a nephew and he's my favorite person - I love seeing him experience the world and I can see how that can be rewarding - I just can't see myself doing that full-time.

Sorry for the spew, thought another side of the talk would be interesting.