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Thread: Driving High: Is the test for weed reliable?

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    Default Driving High: Is the test for weed reliable?

    This is a 30 minute Fifth Estate documentary on the legal aspects that Canadians are about to face. More specifically, the insanity of innocent people being hauled away to jail by biased cops and unscientific road side tests.

    To give you an idea of the just of it, watch the short clip from 45:10. After watching that, you might think that shit would never be allowed in Canada, except, as the documentary shows, it already is, and is about to get a lot worse.


    http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/episodes/201...-weed-reliable

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth1968 View Post
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    This is a 30 minute Fifth Estate documentary on the legal aspects that Canadians are about to face. More specifically, the insanity of innocent people being hauled away to jail by biased cops and unscientific road side tests.

    To give you an idea of the just of it, watch the short clip from 45:10. After watching that, you might think that shit would never be allowed in Canada, except, as the documentary shows, it already is, and is about to get a lot worse.


    http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/episodes/201...-weed-reliable
    This is a good video to watch if you haven't seen it.


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    I've seen that, but it's not relevant to the point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth1968 View Post
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    I've seen that, but it's not relevant to the point.
    It is because some of those people were in fact high but not enough to warrant bad driving behaviour, so if their behaviour during driving isn't affected could someone using these test methods fail them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by firebane View Post
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    It is because some of those people were in fact high but not enough to warrant bad driving behaviour, so if their behaviour during driving isn't affected could someone using these test methods fail them?
    Ah yes, my mistake. I see your point now.

    The bottom line is that we have no scientific way at the road side to determine weed intoxication, and as such, cops are going to be jailing innocent people, or even worse. (that's the point of the documentary).
    Last edited by Seth1968; 01-30-2018 at 08:56 AM.

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    The supreme court of Canada has ruled that a DRE's opinion can be admitted as evidence.

    In 6 US states, courts have refused to allow DRE's to testify as experts. Their testimony has been described as more prejudicial than beneficial.
    That's part of it from 25:04

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    I haven't watched much of the videos but the whole DUI system we currently use needs to be scrapped. Giving out DUIs based on a arbitrary number from machine is about as good as giving out speeding tickets based on how loud your car is when it drives by. Sure there is a correlation between speed and how loud your going to be, just like there is between BAC and level of impairment buts its not a direct and linear correlation, its a flawed metric... I believe rage even did some experiments and some people where completely shit faced under the limit and other that were over were in much better shape.

    Instead it should be replaced with a unfit to operate system that uses metrics that actually directly relate to driving are used. Metrics such as reaction time, coordination, visual acuity, memory and recollection, pupil dilation time, motor skills. Statistics can be used to fine tune the values required to be deemed fit. All those metrics can be tested with simple road side test or better yet rolled out into a phone app made available to everyone and be even more controlled and unbiased than an officer ever could be. There already are brain trainer games that do this very thing... Going to a system like this also takes out the need for fancy and expensive testing equipment and doesn't matter what you are "influenced" by be it drugs(legal or not),alcohol, tiredness, age, disability, or just plane shitty driving abilty... If your unfit to drive you shouldn't be be driving period. Why take a proactive approach to substance based impairment(and much harsher punishment) but leave the other forms of impairment untouched until they actually have an incident(looking at you blue hairs)? The most impaired I ever was actually from a hit of pure tabaco that someone passed off to me as a joint as a joke(never having smoked tobbaco before and taking a big long hit) Sure it was short lived but for 5minutes I was light headed, trembling, and had impaired vision. The first time you smoke weed sure its going to be a big impairment(just like my first experience with tobacco) but a regular toker has very minimal impairment much like a regular tobacco users experience.

    Hell, back in high school most of my friends drove high(on MJ). I use to use Gran Turismo as my basis to know when I could drive home after smoking. Pull a certain lap time on a certain track similar or better than what I could do stone cold sober means I was good to go.

    Alcohol impairs your judgment and you think your okay to drive when your not. MJ is not like that your are aware and any common sense person would know the shape they are in.

    By no means am I for impaired driving I just want a fair and unbiased system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazyjoker77 View Post
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    I haven't watched much of the videos but the whole DUI system we currently use needs to be scrapped. Giving out DUIs based on a arbitrary number from machine is about as good as giving out speeding tickets based on how loud your car is when it drives by. Sure there is a correlation between speed and how loud your going to be, just like there is between BAC and level of impairment buts its not a direct and linear correlation, its a flawed metric... I believe rage even did some experiments and some people where completely shit faced under the limit and other that were over were in much better shape..
    I believe to get convicted you have to get the actual blood test for BAL, the roadside tests (the ones I've seen) are Pass, Warning (up to 0.05), or Fail (0.08+). Then you go to the station for a blood test.

    From what I have been told by my friends in CPS/RCMP, the levels are there because the overwhelming majority of the population is hammered at 0.08. We played with police issue breathalyzers before, and I could barely stand by the time I blew a "fail" If you are a functioning alcoholic, or have a high tolerance, yes you may not be as drunk as the next guy but regardless you probably shouldn't be having 7 or 8 beers and hopping in a car, regardless of your tolerance. It's not a perfect system but it works for the majority of people and it's actually surprisingly lenient - when I blew a "pass" or "warning" I was WAY too drunk to be driving based on my own judgement, and yet I would have been legal on the road, or at worst a 24hr suspension. Can't speak for everyone, but my friends were all about the same.

    But as you say, it isn't an exact science - about $10-$15K buys you out of a DUI (a BAL expert to testify in your favor) and it's one of the biggest frustrations my friends in law enforcement have. I guess you can't be doing that too often though, and eventually it will catch up with you.

    I think at the end of the day there just has to be some sort of quantifiable, testable limit, otherwise it would be a disaster if left purely to discretion and arbitrary tests. Obviously a lengthy, multi-stage test with experts on every aspect of your performance would be ideal but it's just not practical or something they would ever implement.

    My personal opinion is that DUI charges should carry a much, much, heftier penalty than they do.

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    Lawyers are going to get rich off this, that much I know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazyjoker77 View Post
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    I haven't watched much of the videos but the whole DUI system we currently use needs to be scrapped. Giving out DUIs based on a arbitrary number from machine is about as good as giving out speeding tickets based on how loud your car is when it drives by. Sure there is a correlation between speed and how loud your going to be, just like there is between BAC and level of impairment buts its not a direct and linear correlation, its a flawed metric... I believe rage even did some experiments and some people where completely shit faced under the limit and other that were over were in much better shape.

    Instead it should be replaced with a unfit to operate system that uses metrics that actually directly relate to driving are used. Metrics such as reaction time, coordination, visual acuity, memory and recollection, pupil dilation time, motor skills. Statistics can be used to fine tune the values required to be deemed fit. All those metrics can be tested with simple road side test or better yet rolled out into a phone app made available to everyone and be even more controlled and unbiased than an officer ever could be. There already are brain trainer games that do this very thing... Going to a system like this also takes out the need for fancy and expensive testing equipment and doesn't matter what you are "influenced" by be it drugs(legal or not),alcohol, tiredness, age, disability, or just plane shitty driving abilty... If your unfit to drive you shouldn't be be driving period. Why take a proactive approach to substance based impairment(and much harsher punishment) but leave the other forms of impairment untouched until they actually have an incident(looking at you blue hairs)? The most impaired I ever was actually from a hit of pure tabaco that someone passed off to me as a joint as a joke(never having smoked tobbaco before and taking a big long hit) Sure it was short lived but for 5minutes I was light headed, trembling, and had impaired vision. The first time you smoke weed sure its going to be a big impairment(just like my first experience with tobacco) but a regular toker has very minimal impairment much like a regular tobacco users experience.

    Hell, back in high school most of my friends drove high(on MJ). I use to use Gran Turismo as my basis to know when I could drive home after smoking. Pull a certain lap time on a certain track similar or better than what I could do stone cold sober means I was good to go.

    Alcohol impairs your judgment and you think your okay to drive when your not. MJ is not like that your are aware and any common sense person would know the shape they are in.

    By no means am I for impaired driving I just want a fair and unbiased system.
    i agree with all you said. think about every old person would not be able to pass a test that included reaction time, coordination, visual acuity, memory and recollection, pupil dilation time, motor skills. they are all on pills wont someone think of the children.
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    The sooner cannabix can get that damn breathalyzer to market the better. Simple have you smoked in the last two hours? Yes or no. Seems fair to me

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    Quote Originally Posted by blairtruck View Post
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    i agree with all you said. think about every old person would not be able to pass a test that included reaction time, coordination, visual acuity, memory and recollection, pupil dilation time, motor skills.
    True enough, but nothing will be done about that because they vote. A LOT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ercchry View Post
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    The sooner cannabix can get that damn breathalyzer to market the better. Simple have you smoked in the last two hours? Yes or no. Seems fair to me
    what if i were to take an edible? or thc suppository. or the oil the the LPs have.
    off topic but the suppository gets you messsssssed up
    Last edited by blairtruck; 01-30-2018 at 01:37 PM.
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    That's amazing if you can drive while high. I can't even see straight haha

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    Quote Originally Posted by blairtruck View Post
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    what if i were to take an edible? or thc suppository. or the oil the the LPs have.
    off topic but the suppository gets you messsssssed up

    Haven’t been following too closely for a while, but I believe a breath sample still works for edibles... someone should probably fact check this... haha but I believe while high the breath sample has enough thc to produce a reading on the device... or that’s the idea at least, they are way behind on delivery... so hard to say how it’s panned out

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    Quote Originally Posted by max_boost View Post
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    That's amazing if you can drive while high. I can't even see straight haha
    I find it takes a while to build a high enough tolerance... but once you do it’s a lot like drinking where you can have a little and just feel “buzzed” but I believe with current legislation that would still give you a dui.. but yeah, it’s not really an impairment that is great enough to cause issues... hell, yesterday I had a coffee with about 6mg of thc (in a tincture, not oil based) and then wrote a 3hr exam in about 45min, and scored 92%

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    Quote Originally Posted by blairtruck View Post
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    what if i were to take an edible? or thc suppository. or the oil the the LPs have.
    off topic but the suppository gets you messsssssed up
    I'm all for weed but I draw the line shoving things up there to get high...

    Quote Originally Posted by max_boost View Post
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    That's amazing if you can drive while high. I can't even see straight haha
    Honestly I think weed is just the new witchhunt because of the negative perception its had for so long. When in reality its more akin to tobacco than alcohol. Nobody seems to have a problem with people smoking cigs and driving....

    Of all the stoners that I know and most have or do drive "impaired" I don't recall any of them ever having a Motor Vehicle Collision while impaired... Not saying it doesn't happen but again I think its being blown out of proportion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by max_boost View Post
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    That's amazing if you can drive while high. I can't even see straight haha
    I have driven once and did not like it. For me it seemed like everything was in super slow motion even though it wasn't. That was not a feeling I enjoyed and never did it again.

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    People have been driving stoned for decades.

    When is the last time we've heard about someone causing an accident while driving stoned?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazyjoker77 View Post
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    I don't recall any of them ever having a Motor Vehicle Collision while impaired
    I don't know anyone who has ever been drunk and in an accident. Good method for determining whether it should be policed or not

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