Alberta's Future

[rage2]

Originally posted by Xtrema
If you a developer, do you want to do something for $80K with 10% of getting rich to do something that's highly complex or do some dumb shit for $100K + Bonus.

That's why tech industry has a tough time surviving here. You can't keep good people around with reasonable wages when resource industry keep poaching at 30% above market.

I've bitched about this for years here. Now that we're seeing O&G downturn, we've seen some formerly talented guys spend the last 5-10 years in O&G for the money become pretty much retarded and not someone we'd hire. So not only are they poaching good talent with $, they're making them stupid.

We're a tech company founded in Calgary, and even we had to open up a silicon valley office to hire talent. It's expensive down there, but we're actually getting better quality at not much more money compared to here (at least when dollar was 1:1).

As for automation, that's pretty much my job every day. Automate away jobs. To be fair, we're automating away bottom of the barrel skills. The only jobs we're automating away are jobs where the resources can't move forwards in skills. Over in the bay area, most companies have automated away the receptionist and replaced them with an iPad haha. Click a button, select your appointment, takes a picture and prints out a visitor pass. 2 mins later, the person you're meeting comes out and greets you. So efficient.

If I look back at what we had to hire people to do 10 years ago compared to today, completely different roles. The entry level IT roles today are way more technical and more equivalent to a top sr level role 10 years ago. Tech can have a future here, especially if O&G doesn't make a comeback, but it'll take time to prove that O&G isn't going to throw money at people anymore before other industries want to set up shop here and compete for resources. Your typical desktop support jobs or low end IT jobs won't be around in 10 years though, so there's some truth to that, but that's not what the tech sector is about.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by Xtrema


If you a developer, do you want to do something for $80K with 10% of getting rich to do something that's highly complex or do some dumb shit for $100K + Bonus.

That's why tech industry has a tough time surviving here. You can't keep good people around with reasonable wages when resource industry keep poaching at 30% above market.

I think you're also forgetting how crap the development industry is towards it's employees. It's pretty much expected you're going to work OT for free which is utter bullshit. Not only that but the pay is garbage when you figure in the hours you are expected to put in. School teachers, nurses, and other government employees get paid way more, get better benefits, and don't have to work OT for free.

The industry is frankly shit and that's why they can't retain or hire quality employees.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by max_boost
lol

So, Alberta will have less lifted trucks in the future?!

1/2 meat subs for all!

[Toms-SC]

I'm still looking and applying for positions down in the United States. While the thread is titled "Alberta's Future" I question Canada's future. Canadian's hate successful business so I don't see this place as being overly friendly to entrepreneurs. It's all about mah diversity and gib me's.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin


I think you're also forgetting how crap the development industry is towards it's employees. It's pretty much expected you're going to work OT for free which is utter bullshit. Not only that but the pay is garbage when you figure in the hours you are expected to put in. School teachers, nurses, and other government employees get paid way more, get better benefits, and don't have to work OT for free.

The industry is frankly shit and that's why they can't retain or hire quality employees.

But that's the industrial norm.

https://www.glassdoor.ca/Salary/Elec...ries-E1628.htm

That's like bitching about being a plumber when a lawyer get paid more.

And it still doesn't make excuse for the fact that EA cream of the crop pay is what average senior position paid in O&G. And you don't even have to be best of the best to get it.

I have many opportunities to talk to many MS SEs over the years from Ontario and they are all astounded what we all get paid here in Calgary for the role/position.

[Buster]

Originally posted by Toms-SC
I'm still looking and applying for positions down in the United States. While the thread is titled "Alberta's Future" I question Canada's future. Canadian's hate successful business so I don't see this place as being overly friendly to entrepreneurs. It's all about mah diversity and gib me's.

What's strange to me is that most Canadians are proud to be Canadian. Most the time I find it a bit embarrassing.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by Xtrema


But that's the industrial norm.

https://www.glassdoor.ca/Salary/Elec...ries-E1628.htm

That's like bitching about being a plumber when a lawyer get paid more.

And it still doesn't make excuse for the fact that EA cream of the crop pay is what average senior position paid in O&G. And you don't even have to be best of the best to get it.

I have many opportunities to talk to many MS SEs over the years from Ontario and they are all astounded what we all get paid here in Calgary for the role/position.

That's pretty much my point... The plumber makes more than the developers. Then people wonder why the developers are all like fuck this shit. I work harder and longer hours than everyone else in this town but get paid dick all so I'm going to walk across the street to get paid better for less work. Hence why people have problems with retention.

It's not like there's too many industries out there where highly educated folk are expected to work hilariously long hours for hardly any pay and expected to put up with it. We shouldn't act all surprised when people figure out they are getting taken for a ride and exit the industry.

[ercchry]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin




It's not like there's too many industries out there where highly educated folk are expected to work hilariously long hours for hardly any pay and expected to put up with it. We shouldn't act all surprised when people figure out they are getting taken for a ride and exit the industry.

well... the two industries that come to mind, being two of the few that actually require education... law and medicine both absolutely rape their associates and residents on a $$/hr basis for a good, what? half decade?

[89coupe]

The O&G sector still pays very well, but the level of intelligence and work load has increased significantly. 7.5 hours days have gone, the top performers are working 8-8pm and are being paid extremely well.

To make it in any top level position you need to bust your ass, and be on top of your game at all times.

There are 100's of young workers coming into the work force, hungry for a job and are willing to work twice as hard as the next person to get it.

O&G isn't going anywhere, it's just becoming leaner and meaner.

As for diversification, I'd love to see Calgary promote tourism with huge hotels/casinos, restaurants & entertainment as a draw for the night life and the mountains, hiking, skiing, & golf for the day.

[killramos]

i knew a few people who became software engineers after high school, all thought they were going to end up working for google or making video games. Most of them ended up at oil companies not even making good money once they realize those jobs don't actually exist.

You might as well go to school to "become a ceo" your odds are just as good.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by 89coupe
As for diversification, I'd love to see Calgary promote tourism with huge hotels/casinos, restaurants & entertainment as a draw for the night life and the mountains, hiking, skiing, & golf for the day.

The Chinese are coming.....

Originally posted by mazdavirgin
That's pretty much my point... The plumber makes more than the developers. Then people wonder why the developers are all like fuck this shit. I work harder and longer hours than everyone else in this town but get paid dick all so I'm going to walk across the street to get paid better for less work. Hence why people have problems with retention.

It's not like there's too many industries out there where highly educated folk are expected to work hilariously long hours for hardly any pay and expected to put up with it. We shouldn't act all surprised when people figure out they are getting taken for a ride and exit the industry.

The problem with developers is that it almost has no geographical tie down and easily off shored. The reason Huawei is beating all Western tech companies is that they have a huge pool of Chinese engineers that will work 6/10s to deliver whatever is asked of them. How can western developer that work only 5/8s compete with that?

When I started, I did think about doing dev as a career but decided against it due to the fact that I have OCD and can never let anything go. Good trait as a dev, bad for health.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Buster


This man gets it.

I find it funny that we all stand around with our dicks in our hands, scratching our heads, wondering why we can't create the magical "diversity" in an economy. As if "diversity" is a thing that exists instead of being just a vague descriptor.

The REAL reason /snip/

The REAL reason is pandering to idealists. Just as much so, bowing down to a CONQUERED Quebec that doesn't do shit but gets all the perks and money.

[Buster]

Originally posted by Seth1968


The REAL reason is pandering to idealists. Just as much so, bowing down to a CONQUERED Quebec that doesn't do shit but gets all the perks and money.

Canadians are like spoiled kids that don't understand what real high performers do to earn money.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by killramos
i knew a few people who became software engineers after high school, all thought they were going to end up working for google or making video games. Most of them ended up at oil companies not even making good money once they realize those jobs don't actually exist.

You might as well go to school to "become a ceo" your odds are just as good.

When I was going through school, they were looking to pull software engineering out because it was just really computer science.

Having said that, the few computer engineers I know did wind up working for Google.

[Hallowed_point]

Originally posted by Seth1968
The REAL reason is pandering to idealists. Just as much so, bowing down to a CONQUERED Quebec that doesn't do shit but gets all the perks and money.

And we get to listen to their language on flights out of Calgary for the 0.01% of people whom require safety directions in french.. I'm surprised that they don't bitch about the anthem not being sung in french at flames games...

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Hallowed_point
And we get to listen to their language on flights out of Calgary for the 0.01% of people whom require safety directions in french.. I'm surprised that they don't bitch about the anthem not being sung in french at flames games...

You probably don't want to get me started on the idiocy on all levels of multilingualism.

As much as a despise the Christian God, he got at least one thing right. That is, when he was pissed off, he created multiple languages to fuck things up.

Now as stupid as we are, we embrace the lack of communication ability as special and diverse

[rage2]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin
It's not like there's too many industries out there where highly educated folk are expected to work hilariously long hours for hardly any pay and expected to put up with it. We shouldn't act all surprised when people figure out they are getting taken for a ride and exit the industry.

Originally posted by 89coupe
The O&G sector still pays very well, but the level of intelligence and work load has increased significantly. 7.5 hours days have gone, the top performers are working 8-8pm and are being paid extremely well.

To make it in any top level position you need to bust your ass, and be on top of your game at all times.

This. There's been a huge shift in "always accessible" employees in the last 10 years in almost every industry (aside from ones with unionized employees of course). I deal with customers, vendors, pretty much anyone in business at nights, weekends, etc. It's expected of you because you're not getting paid big bucks to be only available 9-5 anymore. A big life skill these days is to figure out how to juggle personal life with work commitments.

I guess you can thank Blackberry and the iPhone for this shift.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by rage2
I guess you can thank Blackberry and the iPhone for this shift.

And globalization and offshoring.

I had too many 5am and 9pm meetings when I was needed to deal with that shit.

[dino_martini]

Originally posted by Hallowed_point
It seems that everyone and their dog is starting a micro brewery these days. How much beer can hipsters buy is my question,,

Barber shops and breweries. Welcome to the new Albeerta...

[rage2]

Originally posted by dino_martini
Barber shops and breweries. Welcome to the new Albeerta...

Trying too hard to be Portland or something.