Explosion at Manchester Arena

[SportEL]

This thread has gone off-track. Time to reign it back in to the Event and Islamic Terrorism.

Has Britain finally found it's guts and the police and Government actually going after the attackers?

The Younger Brother and the Father of the Islamic Coward Bomber have both been arrested in Libya with ties to the Islamic State terrorist group. Three others have been arrested in Southern Manchester. The suicide bomber, Salman Abedi had just returned to Britain from a trip to Libya just days before carrying out the attack, and that he may have had travelled to Syria as well becoming further radicalized. They caught footage of him carrying a bag walking in the foyer of the Manchester arena.

So at least they are catching some guys. Given the talk of Tolerance and Just Keep on Living Like Normal Perpetuated by the Media there after this attack, I would have thought that the investigation was going to go nowhere. Could this even be the turning put on being more hardlined of who Britain lets in?

However, there are 3500 Islamic extremists living in Britain with 400 ISIS-trained fighters who just returned back to the UK from Syria and Iraq. Why in the world did they let these known ISIS fighters back in to their country??

[Antonito]

Originally posted by HuMz


It is the only ideology that is deliberately targeting innocent civilians. We've seen countless wars in the last several hundred years, and when the non-Muslim countries have lost, they haven't sought avengence against their aggressors innocent civilians for generations to come.

Outright bullshit. As recently as WW2 all sides were bombing the shit out of whatever major cities they could get to

If you're sticking point will be "after they lost", let me know when Saudi Arabia is finally defeated

[Melinda]

Originally posted by duaner

You were asked for evidence. I would like to see it as well.

We also let atheism into Canada. How many children have been molested and raped as a result?

Did you know that less than 1% of the US prison population identify as atheist? Believing in a higher power does not make you any more moral than someone who doesn't. But I've read a lot of your fanatical posts before, and I know trying to get through to you is likely not going to happen in this life time.

Originally posted by Gestalt
Aheist is active disbelief. Which is a beleif.

Agnostic is no position one way or the other without proof.

So agnostic is not playing soccer.

Athiest is beleiving soccer is evil

Wat. This actually hurt my brain.

Atheists don't believe anything is evil. They just don't believe it exists in the first place. It's not a belief system, it's a total lack of belief in the first place. It isn't its own religion. We don't have clubs and get together and have cookies.

ISIS isn't a religious organization, though they claim to be. It's a group of mentally ill fanatics who use the usual brainwashing and recruiting tactics used by any organization that preys on young desperate minds to gain their 'soldiers'. They just use religion as a poor excuse to carry out their insanity. Fanatics of any sort are dangerous, be it Muslim, Christian, atheist, sports fans, hockey parents, etc. These attacks shouldn't have people pitting religion against religion, it should be a united world against this particular group of fanatics. Blaming an entire religion and subsequently attacking them for the horrific actions of a few are actually doing ISIS's work for them. No one likes to have to continuously fight off people saying they're something that they're not. Bullying people leads them to desperate measures of needing to fight back in whatever way they can.

Let's morn the victims and push our governments to join forces with the rest of the world to end organizations like ISIS, not try to force an entire group of peaceful people out of 'our' countries. Newsflash, most terror attacks are carried out by home grown terrorists, they can't be deported anywhere because they are natural born citizens of the country they're attacking.

[Gestalt]

More than half of Americans say it is a Christian nation. It's on their money. Monuments. Every hotel room has a Bible. And every president is deeply religious.

In God we trust was adopted as the US official Moto.

And they have killed more civilians than any Muslim county.

[revelations]

ISIS was created indirectly by the Americans actions around the middle east. Nothing but planned violence and chaos so that the military industrial complex would reap huge contracts (eg. 300 billion by the Saudis).

Place the blame on the Americans, if anyone.

[revelations]

Originally posted by duaner

"Violent Christian groups" is an oxymoron. There are groups that use the name Christian and do violent things, but unlike Islam, doing unjustified violence to someone, even hating someone, goes against the heart of Christianity's teachings.

Please read the bible more carefully. Its all relevant, both OT and NT advocate both peace and violence from one chapter to the next. Essentially anyone can take something from the bible (literalists), do what they want with it, and be labelled christians.

[SportEL]

Originally posted by Melinda

....

ISIS isn't a religious organization, though they claim to be. It's a group of mentally ill fanatics who use the usual brainwashing and recruiting tactics used by any organization that preys on young desperate minds to gain their 'soldiers'. They just use religion as a poor excuse to carry out their insanity. Fanatics of any sort are dangerous, be it Muslim, Christian, atheist, sports fans, hockey parents, etc. These attacks shouldn't have people pitting religion against religion, it should be a united world against this particular group of fanatics. Blaming an entire religion and subsequently attacking them for the horrific actions of a few are actually doing ISIS's work for them. No one likes to have to continuously fight off people saying they're something that they're not. Bullying people leads them to desperate measures of needing to fight back in whatever way they can.
...

ISIS is one of the acting arms of Islam. In the scripture of the Koran, it incites murder and war against non-Muslims. It is the facts. It is what Muhammad did. ISIS are what they call true Muslims acting as Muhammad did and exactly how Islam have been conquering the world through Submit or Die. ISIS get annoyed they don't get credit for their attacks. They are only proud and proclaim what they do each time as it is the will of their god Allah and Muhammad.

This is the teachings of the Quran. Whether one acts on them or not, the ones who do are promised greater reward. The same rings true, both kinds of Muslims are taught to believe that there are believers and non-believers, and those who aren't are Infidels - animals worthy of death.

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"



109 commands of violence towards Infidels straight from the Quran ---> https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/p.../violence.aspx

The media and Muslims love to lie to the world but through history, violence is the only way Islam spreads. We can keep exposing the truth, and support those ex-Muslims who leave from this cult, and hoping more will follow so that this ideology will only have a few stragglers left.

[SportEL]

Originally posted by revelations
ISIS was created indirectly by the Americans actions around the middle east. Nothing but planned violence and chaos so that the military industrial complex would reap huge contracts (eg. 300 billion by the Saudis).

Place the blame on the Americans, if anyone.

The Islamic extremists is a fault of Obama's administration They caused the Arab Spring that replaced secular governments with Islamic extremists who are now putting people and sadly women on slave blocks and which murdered hundreds of thousands of Christians. This is what is causing the refugee crisis as well. Obama and Hillary armed and funded ISIS. They wanted regime change. It's what's happened in Libya and Syria. These Globalists are working hand in hand with the radical arm of Islam to achieve the same end goal. That is to bring destabilization to the world so that the Elites can profit and Islam can conquer the world. Trump inherited a mess.

[duaner]

And here we go again: http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/world/m...t-26-1.3430179

[jabjab]

Originally posted by revelations
ISIS was created indirectly by the Americans actions around the middle east. Nothing but planned violence and chaos so that the military industrial complex would reap huge contracts (eg. 300 billion by the Saudis).

Place the blame on the Americans, if anyone.

Well put. Everyone seems to be blaming the Muslim religion as a whole but everyone is forgetting who funds and supports these groups in the first place.

[duaner]

Originally posted by Melinda

Did you know that less than 1% of the US prison population identify as atheist?

And probably that many identify as guilty. That stat literally tells us nothing about how many atheists or religious people are actually in prison. There could be any number of reasons why one might claim religious affiliation. It doesn't tell us how many were atheists prior to prison. It also doesn't differentiate between, say, those who claim to be Christian and those who actually are Christian.

Originally posted by Melinda
Believing in a higher power does not make you any more moral than someone who doesn't.

You believe, as an atheist, that evil (and good) doesn't exist. So what do you mean by "moral"?

Originally posted by Melinda
But I've read a lot of your fanatical posts before, and I know trying to get through to you is likely not going to happen in this life time

Fanatical. Wow. There is a loaded word. Since when is believing what Christians have always historically believed made a Christian "fanatical"?

In what way do I need to be gotten through to?

Originally posted by Melinda
Atheists don't believe anything is evil. They just don't believe it exists in the first place.

You're the first atheist I've seen to be honest about that. Of course, you can't stop there though. You then have to admit that atheists believe good doesn't exist either.

So what do you call the bombing and shooting of innocent people? How about when Communist governments let their people starve to death by the millions or when Hitler killed to many Jews? What about men who like to rape little kids?

Originally posted by Melinda
It's not a belief system, it's a total lack of belief in the first place.

Does God exist?

Originally posted by Melinda
We don't have clubs and get together and have cookies.

There is your problem. There would probably be more of you if you did.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by duaner
You believe, as an atheist, that evil (and good) doesn't exist.

Atheism says nothing about morality.

[duaner]

Originally posted by revelations


Please read the bible more carefully. Its all relevant, both OT and NT advocate both peace and violence from one chapter to the next. Essentially anyone can take something from the bible (literalists), do what they want with it, and be labelled christians.

Since you've clearly read the Bible more carefully than I, where does the NT promote violence? You say it's from one chapter to the next, so there should be plenty of verses you can give.

Anyone can call themself a Christian without actually being a Christian. That has been a huge problem for a very long time. Suffice it to say that groups like the KKK or LRA are simply not Christian.

[duaner]

Originally posted by Seth1968


Atheism says nothing about morality.

I agree. So then perhaps you can explain what Melinda meant by, "Believing in a higher power does not make you any more moral than someone who doesn't."

Her appeal to morality as an atheist makes no sense. Or how about this quote from BavarianBeast earlier in this thread: "You don't need to believe in some fake prophecy to have a good set of morals. "

What does that even mean if good and evil don't exist?

And what about what you responded to BavarianBeast with: "Religionists who think morality is only derived by believing in an invisible man, are truly beyond ignorant and delusional."

You strongly imply that morality can be derived from somewhere else. But now you are saying that "atheism says nothing about morality."

How do you define morality and where does it come from?

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by duaner


And what about what you responded to BavarianBeast with: "Religionists who think morality is only derived by believing in an invisible man, are truly beyond ignorant and delusional."

You strongly imply that morality can be derived from somewhere else. But now you are saying that "atheism says nothing about morality."

How do you define morality and where does it come from?

Well I certainly wouldn't want it coming from you, as you condone suffering to which we were discussing before (and then you ran away)

Morality is simply derived from the conclusion that hurting one another doesn't work very well, but helping one another and working together does. That's how the first societies were formed.

Religious people just further show their ignorance in thinking morality is derived from the supernatural.

[01RedDX]

.

[Gestalt]

Originally posted by duaner


Anyone can call themself a Christian without actually being a Christian. That has been a huge problem for a very long time. Suffice it to say that groups like the KKK or LRA are simply not Christian.

Get lost. Wow. Religious nuts, all the same. But but but, I'm a good nut.

[Gestalt]

Christian america killed 5 civilians in Yemen yesterday, including a 70 year old blind man.

[SportEL]

So how was this Islamic Terrorist who was Known to the Police allowed to travel over to Libya and come back not followed more closely to prevent this from happening? In addition, there were associates and neighbors of the bomber who had fears of 'political correctness' which prevented them from reporting him to the authorities including hanging an ISIS flag from the roof of his home, loud chanting of Islamic prayers in the street, and neighbors witnessing suspicious activity at his apartment. They were scared of being called 'racist' and 'bigoted' and because of this 22 people were killed and 100s injured many with life threatening injuries fighting for their lives, with potential loss of limbs and embedded objects.

Here are the victims. It's not only sad how young some were, but there were also parents, mothers who were there to pick up their daughters.



People need to speak up when they witness something, and the people must demand action on their police force and government to go after those hard and stop them from going in to their countries.

[revelations]

Originally posted by duaner

Since you've clearly read the Bible more carefully than I, where does the NT promote violence? You say it's from one chapter to the next, so there should be plenty of verses you can give.

Anyone can call themself a Christian without actually being a Christian. That has been a huge problem for a very long time. Suffice it to say that groups like the KKK or LRA are simply not Christian.

I dont claim there to be violence in every chapter, but that it can goe from peaceful to violent from one to the next.

10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

- Jesus also beat the fuck out of the people in the temple with a weapon.
- Revelations is full of wars and strong imagery of violence.

Why are you ignoring the OT? Its just as relevant to christians and their actions. Churches teach from the OT all the time. Otherwise it would have been removed from the canon and left to the jews.

Anyone who believes in christ, and what he did, is by definition, a christian. Whether or not they interpret the bible as others do, is irrelevant.

With the various translation and interpretations, you can conjure up and advocate "christian" things like wife beating, women demeaning and slavery. Remember, women should be quiet in church, as is written. Back in the 1960s, christian married men treated their wives like borderline slaves.