Vivint Home Security

[Kijho]

Damn that's crazy! Thanks for the feedback on it! I did not go with their hardware.

Did your alarm siren go off when the person broke in? I presume it didn't deter them, then? Did they still steal things?

[spike98]

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That make sense. You are not 'hooked' to the monitoring but you are paying for the costs of the equipment over X number of months. Once contract is over and you paid for the equipment you can cancel. Good chance they will lower the cost for you to keep you. At least that is with some other security company from friends I talked to.

I will find out shortly as my 3 year contract is coming over in July. Unless its a steal of a deal will be cancelling for sure. The Skyview Panel sucks and vivint support is shit. I dont like have to pay the full $70 a month just to be able to unlock and lock remotely through their system.

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As for the Vivint hardware. I would strongly recommend against the standard Vivint locksets. Convenient - yes. Secure - no. A crowbar was used on my front door, and then it was kicked in in the middle of the afternoon. The light duty locks / deadbolts they provide did nothing to prevent entry. Pics attached. All the vivint hardware has since been removed and significantly upgraded.

Attachment 81894

Yea vivint has nothing to do with that. 99% of all consumer grade locks in residential installation are not going to prevent you from a crowbar or a boot.

[Mitsu3000gt]

No normal door & related hardware will prevent someone with a crow bar and time to feed it some good kicks from getting in. It's VERY easy to kick in most doors. Something will fail (often it's the door trim itself because short/decorative screws are used that don't go into the frame and an 80lb meth head could kick through in 2 kicks). All you can really do is make it so it takes the thief longer, and hope in that time they either give up or someone sees it and calls the police. Most electric locks are garbage, get something like Mul-T-Locks with the steel cups and ball bearings. Put 3.5" screws through all your door hardware and plates into the frame. If you have a window next to your door, you can put a rig on your deadbolt so they can't reach in and open it or you can put 3M anti shatter film on the window. Even with all that, you will only slow them down another minute or two, especially if they have a crow bar.

How was there confusion with Vivint? Don't they speak through the panel and if the person doesn't immediate give a password, call the police? Not that it really matters either way I guess, most thieves aren't in the house more than 2-5 mins (quick check for small valuables, cash, booze, pills, jewelry, toss it all in a pillow case, and off they go) and will be LONG gone before police arrive.

[CLiVE]

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Damn that's crazy! Thanks for the feedback on it! I did not go with their hardware.

Did your alarm siren go off when the person broke in? I presume it didn't deter them, then? Did they still steal things?

Yes - alarm went off. Operator came on the panel (I assume), then they called and asked permission to dispatch (slow), then ultimately I dispatched with the panic alarm myself from my phone.
Alarm siren, 7 cameras, and dogs. Nothing deterred them. This was at ~2pm in the afternoon on a busy street.

The ONLY thing the alarm did (which is still a plus) is make the the thieves hurry. Straight to the master bedroom where they targeted jewelry, then downstairs to the office where they grabbed laptops.
In and out, before the police arrived or were likely even dispatched. ~$20k total loss, plus damage to the door/locks. Just stuff though...

I have upgraded to the Mul-T-Locks (as mentioned above) and would recommend everyone install a bolt buddy or similar to help prevent the door itself from splintering.

[Kijho]

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Yes - alarm went off. Operator came on the panel (I assume), then they called and asked permission to dispatch (slow), then ultimately I dispatched with the panic alarm myself from my phone.
Alarm siren, 7 cameras, and dogs. Nothing deterred them. This was at ~2pm in the afternoon on a busy street.

The ONLY thing the alarm did (which is still a plus) is make the the thieves hurry. Straight to the master bedroom where they targeted jewelry, then downstairs to the office where they grabbed laptops.
In and out, before the police arrived or were likely even dispatched. ~$20k total loss, plus damage to the door/locks. Just stuff though...

Damn.. And none of your camera's notified you kind of I guess simultaneously? I presume you didn't have any footage of them, getaway vehicle, doorbell camera of their face, etc??

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What are other alarm companies like such as ADT in terms of their responses to a break in like this? Same scenario? Try to contact you, then ultimately dispatch Police?

[Mitsu3000gt]

So what happens after a break in with insurance? Do they just take your word for the stuff you lost, or are you SOL for everything you don't have photos, appraisals, receipts, and serial numbers for? Especially with old, valuable jewelry I imagine they don't just take you word for it's value but I have no idea.

[CLiVE]

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No normal door & related hardware will prevent someone with a crow bar and time to feed it some good kicks from getting in. It's VERY easy to kick in most doors. Something will fail (often it's the door trim itself because short/decorative screws are used that don't go into the frame and an 80lb meth head could kick through in 2 kicks). All you can really do is make it so it takes the thief longer, and hope in that time they either give up or someone sees it and calls the police. Most electric locks are garbage, get something like Mul-T-Locks with the steel cups and ball bearings. Put 3.5" screws through all your door hardware and plates into the frame. If you have a window next to your door, you can put a rig on your deadbolt so they can't reach in and open it or you can put 3M anti shatter film on the window. Even with all that, you will only slow them down another minute or two, especially if they have a crow bar.

How was there confusion with Vivint? Don't they speak through the panel and if the person doesn't immediate give a password, call the police? Not that it really matters either way I guess, most thieves aren't in the house more than 2-5 mins (quick check for small valuables, cash, booze, pills, jewelry, toss it all in a pillow case, and off they go) and will be LONG gone before police arrive.

This - it doesn't matter. They will be in an out. The only thing the alarm does it make them hurry.
After no one responded on the panel they called me. After a series of questions the asked whether or not to dispatch. They stumbled on exactly which sensor was going off, etc. Really wasn't impressed. But like you said - really doesn't matter.
They stole a pillow case, put everything in and were gone.

[Mitsu3000gt]

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Damn.. And none of your camera's notified you kind of I guess simultaneously? I presume you didn't have any footage of them, getaway vehicle, doorbell camera of their face, etc??

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What are other alarm companies like such as ADT in terms of their responses to a break in like this? Same scenario? Try to contact you, then ultimately dispatch Police?

No alarm company will dispatch police instantly without checking anything, and even if they did, CPS response time is not 2 minutes, so they are pretty much useless. As mentioned it might make them rush a bit, but they are still going to hit all your valuables unless you don't keep anything in normal places. They check the freezer often too because people think they are sneaky and it's an extremely common place to store cash.

[CLiVE]

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So what happens after a break in with insurance? Do they just take your word for the stuff you lost, or are you SOL for everything you don't have photos, appraisals, receipts, and serial numbers for? Especially with old, valuable jewelry I imagine they don't just take you word for it's value but I have no idea.

They take your word for what you lost, and give you time to describe everything in a list and document the approximate values. You will then be assigned a case specialist and a preferred vendor (jewelry store) to further document values and source replacements (like wedding rings in our case). Now - depending on your policy you will be given 2 values. Replacement value, and 'cash value'. If you choose to replace things you can go ahead and purchase similar items, (or an item equivalent to the total loss value of combined items and you will be reimbursed.) If you choose not to replace, your items will be assigned a depreciated value (on vintage pieces it is VERY low) of cash in lieu of replacement.

[CLiVE]

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No alarm company will dispatch police instantly without checking anything, and even if they did, CPS response time is not 2 minutes, so they are pretty much useless. As mentioned it might make them rush a bit, but they are still going to hit all your valuables unless you don't keep anything in normal places. They check the freezer often too because people think they are sneaky and it's an extremely common place to store cash.

With Vivint - the customer rep on the phone just seemed so confused as to procedure. Which could just be the luck of the draw....

Exactly. The police were probably there within a 1/2hr after the break-in. Depends on proximity, other calls, etc.
No one was injured and it is really just to document the break-in and take finger prints, collect video, etc. They were very professional.

I'm also not one to waste police resources on what was a minor loss with no injuries. All good.

[Mitsu3000gt]

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They take your word for what you lost, and give you time to describe everything in a list and document the approximate values. You will then be assigned a case specialist and a preferred vendor (jewelry store) to further document values and source replacements (like wedding rings in our case). Now - depending on your policy you will be given 2 values. Replacement value, and 'cash value'. If you choose to replace things you can go ahead and purchase similar items, (or an item equivalent to the total loss value of combined items and you will be reimbursed.) If you choose not to replace, your items will be assigned a depreciated value (on vintage pieces it is VERY low) of cash in lieu of replacement.

Interesting - so how is fraud in these cases not wildly rampant? You could say you lost thousands and thousands more than you did in electronics, jewelry, etc. and there would be zero chance of anyone ever finding out.

Also you could take the replacement item and sell it as new rather than taking their depreciated cash value and come out way ahead, if I understand that correctly.

Sorry this happened to you, we had a family member's house get broken into recently as well and it's not a nice feeling, very violating.

[CLiVE]

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Interesting - so how is fraud in these cases not wildly rampant? You could say you lost thousands and thousands more than you did in electronics, jewelry, etc. and there would be zero chance of anyone ever finding out.

Also you could take the replacement item and sell it as new rather than taking their depreciated cash value and come out way ahead, if I understand that correctly.

Sorry this happened to you, we had a family member's house get broken into recently as well and it's not a nice feeling, very violating.

I agree with you - plus you would be amazed how difficult it is to remember what you had stored in a drawer, on top of a dresser etc. I'm sure we ended up under-claiming. I'm sure false claims do happen, but personally I really don't think it is worth the potential ramifications.

I did actually ask the jewelry provider that exact question. So what's to stop me from taking the replacement item to kijiji or similar. He said - we get that question often and have had many clients do that. lol
Seems like a flawed process to me having gone through it, but that continues to be the way it works.

The worst part of it isn't the loss, its the violating sense of intrusion as mentioned. One of my kids was quite disturbed by it, and I had trouble sleeping and was hesitant to leave the house for a few days.


...and sorry for the thread hijack on Vivint. Just wanted to give people a heads up on my experience with their hardware. Everyone is right though, most residential grade products to very little to protect your house but the dispatch potential should make them hurry and therefore limit your loss. Point is - if someone wants in, they will get in.

[Kijho]

I wonder how it might be if you are infact in your home and you're sleeping, someone breaks in alarm goes off and you just dial 911, maybe they come faster since you're in the house / potentially at risk?

[bigbadboss101]

Sorry to hear of this incident. Hopefully things taken are replaceable and nothing of sentimental value were taken!

I guess most thieves would grab the smaller electronics in the living room and jewelry in the bedrooms. Makes me wonder if we should put valuables in the bathroom under pieces of clothing that they wouldn't want to touch!? Will look into beefing up the locks and doors!

[Mitsu3000gt]

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I wonder how it might be if you are infact in your home and you're sleeping, someone breaks in alarm goes off and you just dial 911, maybe they come faster since you're in the house / potentially at risk?

Most likely the thief would GTFO if he found out you were home (thats why all these break ins happen mid day when they think you're at work rather than at night), but either way police response time wouldn't be nearly fast enough to stop either the theft or subsequent violence after surprising the thief.

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I agree with you - plus you would be amazed how difficult it is to remember what you had stored in a drawer, on top of a dresser etc. I'm sure we ended up under-claiming. I'm sure false claims do happen, but personally I really don't think it is worth the potential ramifications.

I did actually ask the jewelry provider that exact question. So what's to stop me from taking the replacement item to kijiji or similar. He said - we get that question often and have had many clients do that. lol
Seems like a flawed process to me having gone through it, but that continues to be the way it works.

The worst part of it isn't the loss, its the violating sense of intrusion as mentioned. One of my kids was quite disturbed by it, and I had trouble sleeping and was hesitant to leave the house for a few days.


...and sorry for the thread hijack on Vivint. Just wanted to give people a heads up on my experience with their hardware. Everyone is right though, most residential grade products to very little to protect your house but the dispatch potential should make them hurry and therefore limit your loss. Point is - if someone wants in, they will get in.

You're probably right, most people don't keep inventories of stuff and likely under-claim unless they decide to make up some big ticket items. I don't even know what the potential ramifications of a false claim would be though - how could they possibly prove you did not own something? Sounds like you're almost better off not keeping any records of your possessions at all.


Funny about Kijiji haha - not too surprising though if the cash payout is pennies on the dollar vs getting a brand new replacement.

[lilmira]

Wow, it looks targeted and planned.

How far do you have to go to secure your home? You can beef up your door to stop a truck. I'll just break the window, go in and unlock your steel door 5000.

[CLiVE]

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Sorry to hear of this incident. Hopefully things taken are replaceable and nothing of sentimental value were taken!

I guess most thieves would grab the smaller electronics in the living room and jewelry in the bedrooms. Makes me wonder if we should put valuables in the bathroom under pieces of clothing that they wouldn't want to touch!? Will look into beefing up the locks and doors!

One observation. They didn't set foot in the kids rooms - no one keeps anything of value there. Unfortunately a lot of the things taken were of sentimental value. Wedding rings, and my grandfathers vintage watches.

Targeted - I doubt it. They were in the neighborhood and chose a random house on the block. Corner house, largest house on the block, with an easy getaway to a major road.

Most thieves are not 'people persons'. The one reassuring thing is that this happened in the middle of the day when they thought no one would be home (and yes - we had fedex packages sitting on our doorstep. doh).

[CLiVE]

I also learned a lot about door construction. Most - regardless if they are steel, fiberglass or wood still have a wood block and therefore weak point where the knobs/locks are installed which will splinter when kicked.
A bolt buddy (http://www.boltbuddy.com/boltbuddy.htm) or help strengthen this weak point and stop the door from splintering or bending at that weak point. Cheap investment, which may make them look for an easier target.

[spike98]

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You're probably right, most people don't keep inventories of stuff and likely under-claim unless they decide to make up some big ticket items. I don't even know what the potential ramifications of a false claim would be though - how could they possibly prove you did not own something? Sounds like you're almost better off not keeping any records of your possessions at all.


Funny about Kijiji haha - not too surprising though if the cash payout is pennies on the dollar vs getting a brand new replacement.

The ramifications are Fraud. The onus wouldn't be on them to prove you didn't, it would be on you to prove you did.

Also there is limitation to your insurance policy on what you can claim and the amounts thereof. If you are out of the limits, SOL. If you feel you need additional coverage to supplement the limits, then they will ask you for proof of purchase before granting the policy.

For normal claims, under the policy limit, they rarely care as it is part of their metrics anyways and the assume total loss when calculating your premium.

[CLiVE]

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Most likely the thief would GTFO if he found out you were home (thats why all these break ins happen mid day when they think you're at work rather than at night), but either way police response time wouldn't be nearly fast enough to stop either the theft or subsequent violence after surprising the thief.

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You're probably right, most people don't keep inventories of stuff and likely under-claim unless they decide to make up some big ticket items. I don't even know what the potential ramifications of a false claim would be though - how could they possibly prove you did not own something? Sounds like you're almost better off not keeping any records of your possessions at all.


Funny about Kijiji haha - not too surprising though if the cash payout is pennies on the dollar vs getting a brand new replacement.

If you didn't have ANY documentation for several big ticket items - I'm sure they might start asking more questions. The biggest ticket items we lost were wedding rings which we had appraisals for, most of the other stuff were several small items (like 10+ watches ranging in value from $300 - $1500 a piece). Combined value is significant, but on a piece by piece basis not so much. Believe we were insured up to $12k/piece as a standard policy. Any value above this your should have a specific rider on the policy for the item.