PART 8 - Has your office laid people off - With poll

[Type_S1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's certainly on the upswing. You're just not going to see $100bbl oil anytime soon or maybe ever and companies are much leaner with higher standards so not everyone will get back in

Stuff is definitely opening up slowly but companies have the pick of the city on who they want to hire. What I've been seeing is the company picks their guy (who is usually jumping ship) and then another top performer elsewhere backfills him and this happens 5-10 times until a shop takes a risk on someone who is unemployed. This results in 5-10 new jobs for people but only 1 unemployed person being hired. This is because typically , and I mean 95% of the time, good people and high performers aren't out of work for long. If you have been out for a year you should step back and evaluate yourself because there is obviously a flaw and a reason you haven't been picked up (again, you may be the 5% so you decide). Unfortunately I don't think the average employees are required anymore for the current business level in Calgary. The above average employees of 3 years ago are now the average as all the dead weight is gone.

I have a feeling we will see a price rise going into "The IPO" next year. I just can't see how the Saudi's would IPO at the current price level...they will force something to happen in the next 6-12 months and we will see a jump at least to $60. This likely won't bring a ton of jobs back but will help those who are employed and investing.

[killramos]

I am confused, do people really think the definition of upswing is everything being back at peak?

Typical Alberta, don't know what was good until it's too late and you are saying prayers for "one more cycle"...

[Gestalt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I am confused, do people really think the definition of upswing is everything being back at peak?

Typical Alberta, don't know what was good until it's too late and you are saying prayers for "one more cycle"...

I don't care if the industry never gets back to its previous state of excess. I was refering to the provijce as a whole. You are correct, upswing means exactly like it sounds. Like a kid on a swing, swingijg down, hits bittom, starts to come up.

The small downturn created fantastic opportunity for self improvement. Allowed ordinary people with a little money savings and common sense to double down and invest in this province and more impirtanty themselves. If some overpaid financed to the max newfie had to go back home, im mot upset. Hopefully smart enough to learn a lesson about rainy days, humility and being thankful for gifts and good times instead of feeling he is entitled to them.

[bjstare]

edit: woops wrong spot to post.

[KappaSigma]

Managed to avoid layoffs. Actually switched companys, went down to part time and still make above 6 figures. In the process of closing a small asset purchase to start my own producing company as well (fingers crossed). Been lucky but also driven during this downturn.

[sabad66]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Been pretty lucky throughout the downturn. Not laid off yet and actually received raises and relatively big bonuses. At a producer

That said, my role technically expires at the end of the year so I need to either find something else internally before then or I will be laid off

Just accepted a new job (internally) today. Won't be laid off after all!

[The Cosworth]

We just are going through a round of 35 postings closing. We never laid anyone off but let lots of people retire. We're all sorts of screwed now.

[firebane]

I was "laid" off last week :\ Wasn't obviously expecting it but it happened.

[speedog]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

We just are going through a round of 35 postings closing. We never laid anyone off but let lots of people retire. We're all sorts of screwed now.

But on beyond there are many who would argue that getting rid of the senior employees is a good thing so the younger, more engaged employees can do a better job. Using this logic, how can you be screwed?

[J-hop]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

But on beyond there are many who would argue that getting rid of the senior employees is a good thing so the younger, more engaged employees can do a better job. Using this logic, how can you be screwed?

I think retiring senior people in large lumps makes succession planning and knowledge transfer a real problem. It's one thing to plug gaps, it's another to swiss cheese an organizations' skill base and have the young guys run off their feet to catch up. In general I agree with idea of freshening up your workforce but especially in really technical roles there is a certain level of expertise that can't be taught it comes with years of experience.

[adam c]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

But on beyond there are many who would argue that getting rid of the senior employees is a good thing so the younger, more engaged employees can do a better job. Using this logic, how can you be screwed?

Not enough skilled people to do the job?

[ExtraSlow]

I know a reputable place to get top level experienced guys in on short term or part time contracts to help fill those experience gaps. Cheaper than you may think too.

[The Cosworth]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

But on beyond there are many who would argue that getting rid of the senior employees is a good thing so the younger, more engaged employees can do a better job. Using this logic, how can you be screwed?

Just to be clear (as I wasn't) we didn't 'retire' too many, 2 or 3. A good couple dozen left on their own for various reasons and we just didn't backfill. The department I used to run had 19 people when I moved jobs, they now have 7 due to moves due to the backfilling.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I know a reputable place to get top level experienced guys in on short term or part time contracts to help fill those experience gaps. Cheaper than you may think too.

Thanks for the offer but different industry than yours. Also most of our guys just come back part time in between their trips to Hawaii and other shit. Quite annoying for us middle guys who replaced them. haha

[Type_S1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Not enough skilled people to do the job?

Good senior people either a) run/work at small shops or b) are executives at midsize and large shops. Typical senior employees were the reason midsize and large companies were in such bad shape G&A wise. You had a bunch of people who may know a bit more then younger staff (although probably not because if they were worth a shit they would be doing something better then plugging away at a mid sized/big shop) but were typically lazy and took way too long to do simple tasks because they couldn't work technology (print, write documents, figure out excel formulas, use basic software etc.).

I think a good Company should only employ a very select few of senior people, and I mean get some top talent and pay out the ass for it, and the rest of your guys should be 5-10 year guys (top performers for this age range) that are full of piss and vinegar and will kick ass and take names. Luckily we changed the culture at my shop to this (other then support staff like techs and admins who are inherently lazy/useless) and it helped the company tremendously. The business is getting younger due to the schooling and technological advances In the industry. Do you really need a 25+ year engineer that has drilled 100 verticals or an old school geologist that has tried finding conventional plays for the last 25 years? The answer is no, no you don't.

[ExtraSlow]

Your top talent needs to do one of these things really well. Either produce a lot of work, produce specialized work the mid level people can't, lead teams or mentor and develop people.

Ideally not just one but two or three of those. I do agree that at many shops they aren't providing full value in enough of those areas to justify the large full time salaries.

[Sugarphreak]

....

[RealJimmyJames]

Calgary isn't like that any more. Have to get past the online process if you want a hope.

[tonytiger55]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

But on beyond there are many who would argue that getting rid of the senior employees is a good thing so the younger, more engaged employees can do a better job. Using this logic, how can you be screwed?

When I worked in London over ten years ago. I had a very senior manager that would push me into bringing fresh ideas. This was great as there was a huge technology and generation gap in how people interact with technology and interfaces. In turn I got to learn how his side worked and he had a wealth of knowledge to parts of the business I did not know. In turn our side of the business, we were world leaders in our speciality.

In Calgary, Im just working as admin and I can see senior people (the ones I have worked with) don't take on younger people ideas. Its a very 1970's work mentality where younger people are promoted and just told what to do (i.e 'Yes' people). Ive seen a 26 year old white middle class guy promoted over a 36 year old Filipino who had a wealth of experience and knowledge. He just gets told what to do.

If they just tapped into my experience or that of the Filipino girl, I/we could have shown them a business case where they could increase productivity, increase sales without having to spend any money. But work culture is such that taking ideas from below goes against the entire culture of the business.

I don't think we should get rid of senior people, I think there needs to be a two way knowledge transfer.

[dirtsniffer]

Hahaha how did the two persons race effect that story at all?

[tonytiger55]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Hahaha how did the two persons race effect that story at all?

People tend to recruit with who they can identify with. I would not say race is a direct factor, more of a subtle subconscious one. In this particular story you have a old management and HR that is mid to late 50's. So recruiting a white middle class 25 year old is something they can emotionally identify with as their son, nephew, cousin etc and with similar cultural reference points. Compare that to a 36 year old Filipino with perfect english, a degree, Canadian and international work experience and exact same if not better understanding of the role and skills. I would pick the Filipino. In my old role in management I would pick her as I would tap into that experience to overall enhance the processes and if anything make my job easier.

But that was not the only factor in the story, HR in our company is blatant on hiring people they know rather than people good for the job. In that factor it seemed a bit blatant to me as your not recruiting the best person for the role.
In the company Ive been overlooked several times for roles I have been qualified for. I was so frustrated at one point that I emailed a copy of the company handbook to a lawyer friend abroad. She asked if this was some sort of joke as she said the codes of conduct/company policy on recruiting is like something from the 1980's. This is a big Canada wide company thats on the stock exchange.

Im not attacking it to be a white thing. In my ethnic background, people who run their businesses in Calgary ONLY hire people of that background and sub sect. So its not exclusive to a particular race. Its just the way of the world sometimes.

I just finding it interesting coming from my role in the UK where everything was skills and experience based and HR was held accountable. It was just a bit of a time machine culture shock to me.