Kim Jong releases "student" prisoner.

[Gestalt]

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The family denied an autopsy, so the chances of knowing what really happened is diminishing.

that's just insane.

[Neil4Speed]

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The family denied an autopsy, so the chances of knowing what really happened is diminishing.

Thats too bad, but I can appreciate the family doesn't know the details of what was done to him and the suffering he may have endured.

[jacky4566]

I read that title as "Kim Kong releases "student" prisoner." and was suddenly excited for a new movie..

Now i'm sad. Kim Jong might as well be King Kong for what he does to humanity.

[swak]

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Thats too bad, but I can appreciate the family doesn't know the details of what was done to him and the suffering he may have endured.

Very true, that being said it is odd that they agreed to do public hearings on their situation with a panel of Otto's doctors and with Otto's dad on everything before his death.

This may come across as ignorant, but it also seems selfish to me that they denied the autopsy, for society's sake of forward movement with North Korea.

[schurchill39]

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I know why people wanted to go to North Korea:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4067341.html

Yes, that's a shopping bag full - for a street price of 80 cents at the time. Since North Korea is pretty much a completely separate economic entity from the rest of the world, plants are grown and sold as plants, and not a part of the US paradigm of selling plants as drugs, or the criminal paradigm of selling drugs for whatever price the buyer is willing to pay.

Stealing propaganda is definitely a no-no everywhere in the world. You would also be thrown in jail if not shot for stealing the US constitution, which arguably is just a piece of parchment where only the words are of value. If a North Korean defector stole the US constitution or the Mona Lisa, it would be a truly worthy feat.

I mean, people in the US will kick their neighbors asses, literally - for defacing a $5 plastic "Vote Trump" or "Vote Hillary" sign.

As far as I'm concerned, this guy did the equivalent of steal a "Vote Trump" sign in front of a group of Trump supporters. He got everything he had coming to him and more.

What the fuck is wrong with you

[Mitsu3000gt]

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I am leaning to honestly believe that he didn't even steal it or attempt to steal the poster.
The only proof they have is a blurry video not showing any faces or distinguishing qualities that it is him.

He only confessed because he was coerced to do so, or likely threatened with torture or something.

I think most people have done even some sort of research or know what kind of crazy goes on in North Korea that they wouldn't even attempt to do something as stupid as steal a poster.

I wouldn't put anything past them, it's certainly possible. If I recall, the sign was quite large too so I am not sure how he thought he'd get away with that, but maybe it was a poster that could be rolled up. I thought his comments about the theft seemed legit but all that BS about hurting the regime of course was obviously coerced. Who knows. Wouldn't be the first time NK detained someone to use as a political pawn, but I didn't read anything that suggested they tried to leverage him.

[swak]

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I wouldn't put anything past them, it's certainly possible. If I recall, the sign was quite large too so I am not sure how he thought he'd get away with that, but maybe it was a poster that could be rolled up. I thought his comments about the theft seemed legit but all that BS about hurting the regime of course was obviously coerced. Who knows. Wouldn't be the first time NK detained someone to use as a political pawn, but I didn't read anything that suggested they tried to leverage him.

I agree 100% with this, and my previous comment was purely speculation (should have clarified), but this is North Korea we're talking about... Anything goes i suppose..

[Gestalt]

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Very true, that being said it is odd that they agreed to do public hearings on their situation with a panel of Otto's doctors and with Otto's dad on everything before his death.

This may come across as ignorant, but it also seems selfish to me that they denied the autopsy, for society's sake of forward movement with North Korea.

From readi g the Atlantic story, i very much doubt he was tortured now. Even his doctors said that botulism would not be present after a year.

Withiut an autopsy we'll for sure never know for sure. We can send Dennis Rodman in for a personal interview.

[swak]

One mentor of mine is a sociology professor I had in my undergrad.
I asked him his thoughts on this whole thing, and I feel the need to share what he stated... Kind-of a liberal stance i've never considered.

"The worst thing is that democracy is in retreat all around the world as, given humanity's problems, people choose safety and security over critical thought and exercising sociological imagination. The mindset of North Koreans is every bit as violence loving in the name of protectionism as that of Americans".

[01RedDX]

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[Gestalt]

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One mentor of mine is a sociology professor I had in my undergrad.
I asked him his thoughts on this whole thing, and I feel the need to share what he stated... Kind-of a liberal stance i've never considered.

"The worst thing is that democracy is in retreat all around the world as, given humanity's problems, people choose safety and security over critical thought and exercising sociological imagination. The mindset of North Koreans is every bit as violence loving in the name of protectionism as that of Americans".

Idiot liberal prof! Jk. Very well said.

There's also a reason travelling americans pretend they are Canadian.

[Gestalt]

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This story is very sad. They likely used an asphyxiation torture method on him, like waterboarding. That can cause brain damage, heart attacks and coma, all the things consistent with his state.

Fucking animals. I bet they weren't happy with his forced televised "confession" which sounds a lot more like a desperate plea for help. He even used the word "scapegoat" so once they realized this, they decided to work him some more and took it too far.

Poor kid, this was supposed to be an adventure trip of a lifetime, now it's another cautionary tale; don't go to dystopian shitholes like NK until AFTER they've been destroyed!

As awefull as it is what happened to him seem, or theory and imagination what might have happened to him, i find some reactions in this thread disengenius.


Out of 8 billion people, this story of this one guy hardly crack the top 10000 worst things that happened only yesterday.

[01RedDX]

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[Gestalt]

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https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

Cant see how it applies to you're over reaction to what you imagine happened to him.

Not that im interested in your reasoning in your emotiinal state. Was he a family member? My condolences.

[01RedDX]

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[Gestalt]

You and zenops same, jist opposite over reactions. He with his he deserves it, and you with your over reCtion.

A normal response is thats a shitty thing to happen, i wonder if well ever know the truth. Abiut 2 seconds of thought for the deceased and move on to the 1000 other things that happened just yesterday that were worse

[01RedDX]

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[Supa Dexta]

I wonder what bio weapons they did, or considered using on him before sending him home to spread it

[Gestalt]

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Hey, why don't you go stick a solar panel up your ass, you sanctimonious neo-marxist piece of garbage.

I get it, you are one woke-ass dude!

Telling others how to act after all your bs on here, which you've never shown a single shred of proof to support.

Scumbag neo-liberal defending North Korea telling me how to act. Fuck off, dunce.

Such a temper tantrum. Strongs words for a Trudeau voter.

[rage2]

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Thats too bad, but I can appreciate the family doesn't know the details of what was done to him and the suffering he may have endured.

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This may come across as ignorant, but it also seems selfish to me that they denied the autopsy, for society's sake of forward movement with North Korea.

It's because he was a Jew, and it's against Jewish beliefs. What's interesting is why they kept his religion out of the news:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/otto-wa...d-him-hostage/

Pokes holes in the NK coerced confession.