Calgary Flames MEGA THREAD 2017-2018 Edition

[sk8r3124]

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also, no mention of property taxes. The flames seem to think they're getting picked on by having to pay property taxes... guess what, EVERYBODY PAYS THEM, Nobody else gets free money from the city, its not a trucking(Really autocorrect... when would i ever use the word trucking?) loan its life.

They're just pissed because they have a sweet gig right now, they get everything completely free and just make bank.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought I heard somewhere that the saddledome as it is not doesn't currently pay property tax. And other Arts/Culture/Entertainment venues do not pay property tax. I.E. The Jubilee

I don't have facts to back this up, just hearsay.

[rage2]

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Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought I heard somewhere that the saddledome as it is not doesn't currently pay property tax. And other Arts/Culture/Entertainment venues do not pay property tax. I.E. The Jubilee

I don't have facts to back this up, just hearsay.

That's correct. That's because both the Saddledome and Jubilee Auditorium are owned by City of Calgary and Alberta government. They do not pay property taxes. Tenants just rent space there. Flames pay $1/year rent on the Saddledome for full rental, while responsible for managing and maintaining the Saddledome. This was the maintenance contract that they bought out from the Stampede for $20m.

[dj_patm]

How can a CRL work when the anchor tenant doesn't want to pay tax to contribute to it's repayment?

No one is going to be lining up to build more office space with the vacancy downtown and downtown condos are already oversupplied.

Either the Flames:

A) Think that some Earls, Joeys and Hudsons locations will be able to pay that off.
B) Think that the city and the rest of us don't understand how a CRL works and will just miss that
C) Have no intention of negotiating in good faith and essentially want Edmontons deal or Olympic Bid money or they're going to sell/move.

I think I know which one I'm going with.

[Thaco]

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That's correct. That's because both the Saddledome and Jubilee Auditorium are owned by City of Calgary and Alberta government. They do not pay property taxes. Tenants just rent space there. Flames pay $1/year rent on the Saddledome for full rental, while responsible for managing and maintaining the Saddledome. This was the maintenance contract that they bought out from the Stampede for $20m.

Yep, which is why the flames keep calling the city contribution a loan, because they're so comfy with their free facility, they think paying reasonable and fair property taxes is somehow a loan repayment.

[rage2]

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Yep, which is why the flames keep calling the city contribution a loan, because they're so comfy with their free facility, they think paying reasonable and fair property taxes is somehow a loan repayment.

The way the flames is marketing this is that the city is building an arena, the Flames are renting 100% of said arena from the city with an upfront 35 year rent payment of $275m (or roughly $8m a year). I'm not sure who would pay for management and maintenance, I would assume the Flames as per current lease at Saddledome.

[Brent.ff]

How does creating a stadium for me to go eating, drinking, and sitting on my ass, encourage 'active living'? The walk from the C-train station, or training my bladder to be able to hold it through the intermissions?

[Thaco]

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How does creating a stadium for me to go eating, drinking, and sitting on my ass, encourage 'active living'? The walk from the C-train station, or training my bladder to be able to hold it through the intermissions?

I am sure it actually does drive a lot of young people who aspire to be an elite athlete to train and work harder to achieve that goal... which in turn, would create a healthier lifestyle.

[Brent.ff]

those who are young and aspire to be an elite athlete are already partaking in active living. That is a big stretch to say that a stadium encourages it.

[ExtraSlow]

Every justification for subsidized professional sport is a big stretch.

Let's just all admit that we want it and that's reason enough.

[nzwasp]

http://calgaryherald.com/g00/news/lo...ndles-face-off

I wonder which mayoral candidate actually would give the flames their deal....

Also despite not liking druh farrell for most of what she believes I do agree with her comments in this article.

[Thaco]

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http://calgaryherald.com/g00/news/lo...ndles-face-off

I wonder which mayoral candidate actually would give the flames their deal....

Also despite not liking druh farrell for most of what she believes I do agree with her comments in this article.

every decision she makes is for her own personal property value.

[R-Audi]

One major thing that has been skipped over, is that neither group actually needs (or would likely) to pay this 550M up front. There are construction loans during the build... and take out financing once complete. Why is every proposal focused on being 100% whole when likely they would only need say 20-50% up front and the rest on a mortgage/financing. Perhaps they need to work on something like city pays construction cost, get money out with take out financing and Flames pay mortgage. If city held the loan they would get the whatever percent interest and at the end own a paid off building.

I think both sides are hiding a lot of details that have a large effect after the fact.

[Thaco]

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One major thing that has been skipped over, is that neither group actually needs (or would likely) to pay this 550M up front. There are construction loans during the build... and take out financing once complete. Why is every proposal focused on being 100% whole when likely they would only need say 20-50% up front and the rest on a mortgage/financing. Perhaps they need to work on something like city pays construction cost, get money out with take out financing and Flames pay mortgage. If city held the loan they would get the whatever percent interest and at the end own a paid off building.

I think both sides are hiding a lot of details that have a large effect after the fact.

i think it was said at one point that the city would take a loan for their portion and the ticket levy portion because they can get a better deal, the flames would make the ticket levy loan payments and the city would worry about their portion.

As for the flames portion, they can just take it out of petty cash.

[R-Audi]

But the major issue is they dont need 100% of the cost up front... like they would leave you to believe. Its odd.

[sabad66]

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The way the flames is marketing this is that the city is building an arena, the Flames are renting 100% of said arena from the city with an upfront 35 year rent payment of $275m (or roughly $8m a year). I'm not sure who would pay for management and maintenance, I would assume the Flames as per current lease at Saddledome.

from the article posted above, i think the city would be on the hook for at least some as part of the operational subsidy?

The Flames failed to disclose all the details of their proposal that would have sweetened the deal for the club, particularly an ongoing operating subsidy to come out of property taxes, said Coun. Druh Farrell.

“I’d hoped they’d release everything, I’d say to Calgarians it’s important,” said Farrell, who wouldn’t put a dollar figure on the subsidy.

[suntan]

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Except there have been no other ownership groups interested in paying that ridiculous expansion fee. The Seattle team even said they wouldn't.


Murray won't move the team, he will just sell it in 5-10 years if there is still no new arena. Good luck finding owners here when you can't get an arena built.

So, sell Flames for $400 million?

Yeah, what a discount! Or, buy Coyotes for $250 million.

Gee, what would you do?

[nzwasp]

I wonder if any NHL teams have ever modernized an aging stadium, I guess they would need an alternative stadium to play games at in the mean time.

[suntan]

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I wonder if any NHL teams have ever modernized an aging stadium, I guess they would need an alternative stadium to play games at in the mean time.

https://www.cnbc.com/2013/10/25/the-...re-garden.html

[dj_patm]

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So, sell Flames for $400 million?

Yeah, what a discount! Or, buy Coyotes for $250 million.

Gee, what would you do?

The NHL won't let them buy the Coyotes as it sends the wrong message to municipalities.

Glendale has bent over for the NHL. Propping them up and keeping them in Glendale sends the message that "if you "work" with the NHL, they will do everything they can to keep the team there". Calgary refusing to bend over for the NHL also sends the desired message that "if you don't "work" with us (even though the city clearly is trying), you will lose your team".

The BoG doesn't have to do anything they don't want to. They're a cartel. They don't have share holders to answer to. If moving Calgary over Arizona means they have a better shot of continuing to be able to hold municipalities hostage, along with a whole range of other benefits, they will do it. They'll still get their 200 Million relocation fee and like it was said earlier, no one is paying that 500 million expansion fee so there's really nothing keeping the team in Calgary.

[suntan]

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The NHL won't let them buy the Coyotes as it sends the wrong message to municipalities.

Glendale has bent over for the NHL. Propping them up and keeping them in Glendale sends the message that "if you "work" with the NHL, they will do everything they can to keep the team there". Calgary refusing to bend over for the NHL also sends the desired message that "if you don't "work" with us (even though the city clearly is trying), you will lose your team".

The BoG doesn't have to do anything they don't want to. They're a cartel. They don't have share holders or anything. If moving Calgary over Arizona means they have a better shot of continuing to be able to hold municipalities hostage, along with a whole range of other benefits, they will do it. They'll still get their 200 Million relocation fee and like it was said earlier, no one is paying that 500 million expansion fee so there's really nothing keeping the team in Calgary.

lol keep dreaming there bucko. Why think when you can just let fear rule you?