94 Octane Disappearing From Some Mohawk and Husky Stations?

[never]

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Husky 94 was never a great fuel for stock vehicles, or tuned vehicles with generic maps. It was great for forced induction vehicles with tunes specific for Husky 94.

This is the case because the large amount of ethanol reduces the fuel's energy density, but the higher octane value can be taken advantage of with aggressive custom tunes which overcomes that deficit and results in higher overall power. Some info on energy density here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoli...lon_equivalent

The bigger problem with vehicles tuned for Husky 94 is that it runs kind of crappy on anything but Husky 94 because the air fuel ratio is different enough compared to non ethanol fuels. Because Husky 94 isn't readily available elsewhere, your car really becomes terrible for any trips outside of the province unless you can switch to alternate maps. I believe newer standalones can compensate for this so it's better these days, but not entirely sure.

That's what I remember since I stopped tuning years ago. It's too bad Toma isn't here anymore, he would have a lot to add to this discussion, and probably more updated info since I stopped tuning.

Flexfuel sensors FTW!

[J-hop]

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Husky 94 was never a great fuel for stock vehicles, or tuned vehicles with generic maps. It was great for forced induction vehicles with tunes specific for Husky 94.

This is the case because the large amount of ethanol reduces the fuel's energy density, but the higher octane value can be taken advantage of with aggressive custom tunes which overcomes that deficit and results in higher overall power. Some info on energy density here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoli...lon_equivalent

The bigger problem with vehicles tuned for Husky 94 is that it runs kind of crappy on anything but Husky 94 because the air fuel ratio is different enough compared to non ethanol fuels. Because Husky 94 isn't readily available elsewhere, your car really becomes terrible for any trips outside of the province unless you can switch to alternate maps. I believe newer standalones can compensate for this so it's better these days, but not entirely sure.

That's what I remember since I stopped tuning years ago. It's too bad Toma isn't here anymore, he would have a lot to add to this discussion, and probably more updated info since I stopped tuning.

Ethanol is an oxygenated fuel so your target AFRs are going to be higher than with a non-oxygenated fuel. Running on a non-blended fuel is a bad idea as your going to running less fuel than you tune thinks if it's compensating at all with the o2.

[bart]

why is it zzzz german ecu's have no problem? vw/audi's have no problem compensating for octane or elevation, tune or not. i had apr 93 tune, used husky 94 all the time everything was fine, then i went up to 96-97 in germany, every 40 minutes i had to fill up again for 100 euros 220km later was like rocket fuel haha

[ercchry]

Well, finally filled up at the woodbine location (not listed on that map... which was created in 08 btw) and they still have 94

[V6-BoI]

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Husky 94 was never a great fuel for stock vehicles, or tuned vehicles with generic maps. It was great for forced induction vehicles with tunes specific for Husky 94.

This is the case because the large amount of ethanol reduces the fuel's energy density, but the higher octane value can be taken advantage of with aggressive custom tunes which overcomes that deficit and results in higher overall power. Some info on energy density here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoli...lon_equivalent

The bigger problem with vehicles tuned for Husky 94 is that it runs kind of crappy on anything but Husky 94 because the air fuel ratio is different enough compared to non ethanol fuels. Because Husky 94 isn't readily available elsewhere, your car really becomes terrible for any trips outside of the province unless you can switch to alternate maps. I believe newer standalones can compensate for this so it's better these days, but not entirely sure.

That's what I remember since I stopped tuning years ago. It's too bad Toma isn't here anymore, he would have a lot to add to this discussion, and probably more updated info since I stopped tuning.

I have my car tuned for 94, but have been running Shell 91 for the last couple of years. Seems to run about the same as Husky 94 octane. I logged my car, and there's no knock at higher RPM/boost. With that said, I tried running Super Store's 91 gas and my car ran like crap.

It is too bad that Husky's 94 octane is disappearing. I remembered about 3 to 4 years ago, the Husky in Hawkwood removed their 94 octane gas and replaced it with 91. I just thought they did it cuz it was a really old gas station.

[Maxt]

http://www.chevronwithtechron.ca/pro...ech_Review.pdf

Everything you wanted to know about fuel , but were afraid to ask.....

[LUV2REV]

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I have my car tuned for 94, but have been running Shell 91 for the last couple of years. Seems to run about the same as Husky 94 octane. I logged my car, and there's no knock at higher RPM/boost. With that said, I tried running Super Store's 91 gas and my car ran like crap.

It is too bad that Husky's 94 octane is disappearing. I remembered about 3 to 4 years ago, the Husky in Hawkwood removed their 94 octane gas and replaced it with 91. I just thought they did it cuz it was a really old gas station.

The Hawkwood Husky still has 94, I get it there regularly.

[03ozwhip]

well shit the strathmore location is 94 no more. no point going there now.

[benyl]

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Ethanol is an oxygenated fuel so your target AFRs are going to be higher than with a non-oxygenated fuel. Running on a non-blended fuel is a bad idea as your going to running less fuel than you tune thinks if it's compensating at all with the o2.

Here is a post I made on this topic in 2005. The words aren't mine.

From the Nabisco forums http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=694829:

After long discussions with Pete (TXS Aus) and Nathan (Turboxs) over the last 2 months. My high EGT's are fixed.

2 emails out of many from Pete the design/engineer of UTEC and Tuner WB.

Hi,

Have you also taken into account that as a 10% ethanol blend the ideal AFR should be 14.2?

Ethanol stoichiometric is 9 to 1 and Gasoline is 14.7 to 1. When mixing ethanol at 10% the A/F's change .57 downward. Pete's email explaining it further

Hi Mark,

Now things need to be clarified here and it can get quite confusing so bear with me here.

To calculate the AFR for 10% ethanol by 0.1 kg of ethanol needs 0.9 kgs of airplus 0.9 of petrol which needs 0.9 x 14.7 = 13.23 of air. Thus 1 kg of 10% ethanol blend requires 14.13 kgs of air. Now let's assume that the ECU applies no corrections or fuel trims. At idle the ECU will inject 1 kg of fuel for every 14.7 kgs of air measured by the MAF, however our 10% blend of ethanol only requires 14.13 kgs of air. This means that there will be an excess of 0.57 kgs of air.

This should mean that you will need to richen up your maps by a percentage that increases the open loop fuel AFR by about 0.57 of an AFR. Note that this enrichment should be applied across the map including the closed loop region.

To retune for a 10% ethanol blend, ideally we should tune using lambda as lambda = 1 is stoich for all fuels. Now remember the Tuner actually measures lambda but converts the number to an AFR based on the fuel that is used. However to make things easier (?) we will keep the petrol stoich ratio and tune assuming that 14.7 is stoich. (Technically this should be reset to 14.13 but this only adds more confusion we feel.)

At idle and under closed loop control the ECU will compensate. Thus assuming that the fuel trims are not maxed out, then the ECU will tune the car for lambda = 1. This will read 14.7 on the Tuner. You should find that the fuels trims are making the ECU add more fuel and so some fuel should be added by the UTEC in the closed loop region to help bring the fuel trims to zero.

At an open loop fuelling point the AFR should read 0.57 higher. For example at 10.0 it should read 10.57. Thus additional fuel should be added by the UTEC to bring the target AFRs back into line. This should also reduce your EGTs.

By using the petrol AFR (14.7:1) this should mean that you can tune using your target numbers as before.

Does this make sense?

regards
Peter Chan
Electronics Engineer
TXS Pty Ltd
Phone : (+61) (2) 99870127
Fax : (+61) (2) 99870129
Email : [email protected]

Now if you guys are following this, the 02 sensor as per Pete's email above it SHOULD read .57 lower at 14.2 for stoichiometric . The second part the 02 sensor should read .57 leaner. Confused? I was.

I take out the .57 reading from what is considered normal STI 93 octane gasoline A/F's of 11-11.4 to 1. I was able to get my EGT's down somewhat to 1620f having A/F's 10.6-10.9 to 1. Ya with me!

Now comes something extra.
As you can see I'm running an AVO 450. It is running out of air above 6k and as such I'm able to run 23 degrees advance above 6K(Nathan helped looking at my logs). I was afraid to go this high with timing(high cylinder pressure) as most people at sea level run 18 degrees with this size turbo. (I had 21 degrees before bringing down the A/F's .57.) I now have EGT's at the top of 5th of 1580f. Gears 1 to 4 EGT's are 1530f max. As for the top of 6th come on summer.


IMHO Tuning with Husky 94 requires you remove .57 from the normal accepted A/F's you see on these forums. I lost NO power and infact increased power by adding another 2 degrees of timing above 6k and now get a consistent 4.7 volts on the MAF from 5800rpm to 7000rpm.

I have also had discussions with Rob the owner of Tunerworks who I've also assisted in a few UTEC setups including Green turbo'd STI's and he has had the same issues with his Talon.

Conclusion

Both Pete and Nathan were outstanding in their help. I can't thank them enough. I learnt alot of UTEC tricks and secret keys

Husky 94 is pretty good at controlling knock if you take into account the .57 richer A/F's required.

I will be going to PDX with 75 litres of Husky 94 octane and see what happens on the Dyno with Jarrad tuning in late May. Fuel is getting trucked to Montana where I'll pick it up and continue to PDX.

Since I'm using 2 EGT probes with DTEC (one on each side) I can confirm drivers side pistons #2 and #4 on both the STI and WRX run between 30f and 50f hotter. I had 2 probes on my Stage 4 WRX also.

All in all I'm happy

[r3ccOs]

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Here is a post I made on this topic in 2005. The words aren't mine.

any Husky with a cardlock will no longer carry 94... this is because of the merger with imperial oil to improve the strategic supply chain across easter and western canada.

Even 94 was a product, from what I reckon... doesn't yeild the competitive advantage or enough of a differentiator to draw the revenues to spend the money to mix additional ethanol. To let you guys know Husky does have a ethonal plant in both Lloyd and in Minnedosa.