Hand over hand versus shuffle steering

[zieg]

[speedog]

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I agree with you that no corner on a single road would ever need hand over hand or shuffle steer. But turning from one road to another in most cases simply can't be done without shifting your hands in one way or another period. The debate then is which is better, to shuffle or hand over hand.

Thank you, I had never made any mention of where one might use shuffle or hand over hand in my original post and even in zhao's own video he does both at different times.

So the debate is still as you state and I still question the whole air bag thing as situations where one would use these steering methods are almost always slow speed scenarios. I suppose one good example is the John Laurie/McKnight transition - I can not go around that corner in my truck without either doing shuffle or hand over hand and I still revert to hand over hand. If I were to keep my wheels at 10/2 or 9/3, I'd be skipping over the center barrier if on NB John Laurie and that would certainly place me in a much more dangerous situation as opposed to doing some hand over hand and getting around that corner.

So for scenarios that warrant such, do people do hand over hand or shuffle?

[zhao]

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I agree with you that no corner on a single road would ever need hand over hand or shuffle steer. But turning from one road to another in most cases simply can't be done without shifting your hands in one way or another period. The debate then is which is better, to shuffle or hand over hand.

shuffle steering might be the more logical of the 2, but I personally prefer to hand over hand in low speed scenarios because shuffle steering looks retarded. I also dont think it makes a difference... even turning right.... because in order to require hand over hand/shuffle to make a right hand corner it has to be so tight and you need to be going so slow that your odds of an airbag deployment level accident are basically zilch.

[J-hop]

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shuffle steering might be the more logical of the 2, but I personally prefer to hand over hand in low speed scenarios because shuffle steering looks retarded. I also dont think it makes a difference... even turning right.... because in order to require hand over hand/shuffle to make a right hand corner it has to be so tight and you need to be going so slow that your odds of an airbag deployment level accident are basically zilch.

Yea I agree, I actually spent a whole day trying to shuffle steer recently and gave up. Hand over hand is just so much faster

[speedog]

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Yea I agree, I actually spent a whole day trying to shuffle steer recently and gave up. Hand over hand is just so much faster

I couldn't even go a day, hand over hand wins out for me.

[spikerS]

I don't shuffle or hand over hand. Because I learned in a manual, I drive with my left palm, and my right hand is always on the shifter. I apply pressure with my left palm, and input my steering. when I want to straighten out, i relax that pressure and let the castor effect take over. My hand will also do like a 360 degree sweep of the steering wheel in a turn if I need to hit my signal indicator as I use my left hand for that too.

It's kinda hard to describe. I will have to take my go pro out to the truck and try to take a video of it.

[J-hop]

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I don't shuffle or hand over hand. Because I learned in a manual, I drive with my left palm, and my right hand is always on the shifter. I apply pressure with my left palm, and input my steering. when I want to straighten out, i relax that pressure and let the castor effect take over. My hand will also do like a 360 degree sweep of the steering wheel in a turn if I need to hit my signal indicator as I use my left hand for that too.

It's kinda hard to describe. I will have to take my go pro out to the truck and try to take a video of it.

I learned on a standard as well and was taught the hand shouldn't sit resting on the shifter it's bad form. Plus putting a constant pressure on the shifter isn't great for the transmission

[jwslam]

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I learned on a standard as well and was taught the hand shouldn't sit resting on the shifter it's bad form. Plus putting a constant pressure on the shifter isn't great for the transmission

I've learned that too. Instead I'm constantly playing with the handbrake release button, which I don't know if it's any better.

[J-hop]

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I've learned that too. Instead I'm constantly playing with the handbrake release button, which I don't know if it's any better.

Yea was taught shift and return to steering wheel. i used to be sloppy when I was in my teens cuz gangsta one hand and lean back was the way to go. I notice my seats gotten a lot more upright as I've got older and I always 9 and 3 it as one hand on top of the wheel feels kinda lame now. At one time I thought it looked cool, but at one time I thought underglow looked cool too

[rage2]

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There is no corner on the road where you need to shuffle steer or hand over hand to make the corner at speed.

I tried this as a test this weekend, even using the widest line possible, and there are certainly corners where I couldn't stay 9 and 3 with my hands and still hit the apex. 90 degree turns at intersections? I'm tapping the next lane. Parking lot entrances? Half my car is on the wrong side of the road. I'd hate to try the same test in an SUV or something. It all depends on how quick your steering is, not everyone has race car quick steering.

Having your hands upside down with the wheel turned 180 degrees doesn't give you the best strength and control either unless you go through race car driver training to strengthen muscles you'd typically never use. I'd say for a normal person, anything past 90 degrees and you're sacrificing strength and agility, which is why you need to rely on shuffle/hand over hand. Give me a proper track car or a kart on a proper track, and yea, 9 and 3 all day every day.

[Murray Peterson]

I had one instructor (multiple U.S. national championships) that stated it the best for me: "You want your hands in a neutral (10 and 3) position in mid-corner, since that is the place where you need to do fast, controlled, and accurate corrections. I don't give a flying **** what you do to get your hands there by mid-corner, and I don't care where your hands are when you are going down a straight; you won't need to correct for anything there."

He also suggested that I "pre-position" my hands for upcoming corners. e.g. If a left turn is coming up, move my left hand to the top of the wheel in preparation.

This has been one of the most beneficial bits of advice I have gotten over the years.

[zhao]

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I tried this as a test this weekend, even using the widest line possible, and there are certainly corners where I couldn't stay 9 and 3 with my hands and still hit the apex. 90 degree turns at intersections? I'm tapping the next lane. Parking lot entrances? Half my car is on the wrong side of the road. I'd hate to try the same test in an SUV or something. It all depends on how quick your steering is, not everyone has race car quick steering.

I did test it myself too, and even doing right hand turns downtown I was able to keep my hands planted. Steering rack ratios are relatively the same for power steering vehicles. race cars actually potentially have worse ratios as it is not uncommon for them to have steering racks built to be manual racks for street use, that often had larger steering ratios to compensate for the lack of power for parking and low speed street use.

Why I can keep my hands planted is because I believe people turn the steering wheel far more than is actually necessary (If you turn it beyond a certain point you are not actually turning any more and are actually just scrubbing your tires). I also run somewhat of a racing line within my lane, which is probably why coupled not over turning the wheel i was able to do sharp 90 degree right hand corners hugging the curb lane downtown within my lane. I admit I was at the limit of how tight I was able to turn.... As I said before however, at low speed, who cares . You're not going to have to do any crazy avoidance or recovery maneuvers at 20kph.

I also admit driving something gigantic will probably throw all this out the window, however I have been driving my 1500 gmc the last week and I haven't ran in to a corner I couldn't keep my hands planted.