Sauber says no to Honda, end of Honda F1. McLaren might go Ferrari. WTF???

[rage2]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130672

Coles Notes:

- Sauber never actually signed off on the Honda deal
- Monisha Kaltenborn was outed partly because she chased the Honda deal for cost benefits, and not performance benefits
- New owner can't afford to be uncompetitive. Honda not the answer

And the big one
- Sauber might not be able to extend Ferrari engine deal as McLaren (WTMF) is looking at being a Ferrari customer

Seriously, if McLaren uses Ferrari engines, I'm done with the team. Regardless, if McLaren parts ways with Honda, that's the end of Honda F1 in this incarnation (thank fuck).

[flipstah]

McLaren to Ferrari?! That's like Wendy's going to McDonald's for patties.

[ganesh]

I am a McLaren fan as well. If they go to Ferrari I am done with them as well.
According to all the reports up until now pointing to McLaren returning to Silver Arrows. I hope that's the case.

[chongkee_]

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I am a McLaren fan as well. If they go to Ferrari I am done with them as well.
According to all the reports up until now pointing to McLaren returning to Silver Arrows. I hope that's the case.

That is more than likely. They can then start wooing Porsche/Audi for 2020 and beat RBR to it.

[flipstah]

I'm dropping McLaren if this goes forward. Go, Williams!

[OTown]

What a mess. Shame that the whole Honda F1 didnt work out. On to better things I guess

[R154]

Of course it didn't work. It takes years and years to develop a p/u setup. Honda got cocky. They got their dicks caught in the pencil sharpener and simply had no answers for this iteration.

It is tragic that they couldn't get it together. They are a legacy manufacturer. A vestige to another time in F1 during a real golden era.

In many ways I am more pissed of that they came back then I am that they failed.

Fuck.

[flipstah]

I'm not mad they came back. I'm mad that they gave Alonso false hope.

[rage2]

Honda just wasn't prepared, and their engineering abilities weren't up to competitors standards. Simple as that.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report...-2017-troubles

There is no excuse for missing the mark as far as Honda did between the drawing board, dyno, and track performance on every aspect of the powertrain. Sure, you have instances where dyno doesn't correlate with real world scenarios (Mercedes gearbox troubles is an example), but they basically failed every single step of the way. If you can't engineer an oil tank to handle expected g loading in a F1 car, you've got some serious talent issues. How did they not know vibrations are completely different on track vs dyno? They have 2 years of data and should have known this. I really don't want to know how everything else in between failed, it would probably just be a massive facepalm reading into how their engineers ignored/missed and failed to find solutions to simple engineering problems.

[R154]

Honda was cocky all the way through. They got humbled this season. Unless they draw off talent from other teams and install an engineering lead who is experienced they will never compete a competitive package.

The question is, how willing to throw the kitchen sink are they. No question that they could engineer a great package.

[tonytiger55]

Im on the other side of this.
I think they did have the talent. I liken it to my workplace and previous workplace. Lots of talent here. But its throttled by shit management culture. I can improve our business and profits, i know how to, but I cannot do so. When management comes to my desk and sticks their bum in my face. I just have to look up, say yes with puppy dog eyes and tell them it tastes like chocolaaaa.
Every time something goes wrong, its us that have to pick up their pieces of poo and provide a workaround to a stupid problem that should not have existed in the first place.

Honda does have the talent. Just like in all the workplaces I have worked in, you have a management structure and culture that stops it coming through.

[schocker]

Honda sure has shit the bed as I am guessing the deal was in the works before their current season performance. Will there be any new engine suppliers for 2018, I believe cosworth was also in the engine group meetings?

[flipstah]

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Honda sure has shit the bed as I am guessing the deal was in the works before their current season performance. Will there be any new engine suppliers for 2018, I believe cosworth was also in the engine group meetings?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130830

[tonytiger55]

Cosworth coming back...?!!!!

Fuck YEAH!!!

[flipstah]

Honda basically has a timeline to get their shit together. Cosworth coming back, earning points, and maybe winning a GP before Honda is the ultimate slap in the face.

[JustinL]

No-one is stepping into the ring until 2021. Ferrari has just this year caught up since the intro of the V6 hybrids, Renault is still off the pace, Honda coming in late is never going to catch up. Cosworth and VW may jump in if they can massage the rules into something that forces all the teams to start from the same point. It will be an interesting discussion between all the manufacturers to see which direction they are going to want to go. I'm sure it will be some sort of hybrid turbo, and hopefully they let them rev higher again.

[tonytiger55]

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Honda sure has shit the bed as I am guessing the deal was in the works before their current season performance. Will there be any new engine suppliers for 2018, I believe cosworth was also in the engine group meetings?

Honda shitting the bed is prob why Toto toilets are proudly sponsoring Alonso.

But in regards all teams starting from 2021 from the same point... Its possible, but will Honda stay?

[R154]

I sincerely doubt they will ever have super high revving fossil fuel engines again.

Everything they do is to reduce emissions and bring down fuel consumption. High revving is the antithesis of that.

If anything they'll like demand more electric motor, more hybrid. Push battery tech. Likely.

Basically the writing is on the wall for petrol engines in this tier of racing... Unfortunately.

[tonytiger55]

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I sincerely doubt they will ever have super high revving fossil fuel engines again.

Everything they do is to reduce emissions and bring down fuel consumption. High revving is the antithesis of that.

If anything they'll like demand more electric motor, more hybrid. Push battery tech. Likely.

Basically the writing is on the wall for petrol engines in this tier of racing... Unfortunately.

Which wall are you talking about?
Formula 1 is not ditching petrol engines anytime soon and its defo not on the wall. It not even a idea.

If I take a shit at home and I block the toilet. If a plumber comes over in a electric Van as the norm that will be the day F1 ditches petrol engines.

[R154]

I meant over a long continum. Maybe not for the next 5 years. But it is coming. The world is slowly trying to move to electric forward vehicles.

Trust me, we are going to see 4cyl p/u's very soon.