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    Default Decent laptop for school--sub $1500

    Enough of this being out of work. I'm returning to school this fall and am in need of a decent laptop. I don't think I'll need anything specific for classes beyond Word and Internet access but there may be a chance of doing some light CAD--likely just SketchUp but that still requires a video card.

    I don't really want to go used given how fast tech falls behind these days, not to mention what may be lurking in the dark recesses. I'll be in school for at least 2 1/2 years, likely 3, and want something that will last. That's the plan anyway.

    As the title states, sub $1500--Core i7, 15.6" display, 256-512GB drive--prefer SSD, 8+GB RAM, and a half decent video card.

    For $1211.20 at Lenovo (pre-support plan), I can get an E570 with Core i7-7500, 256GB PCle SSD + free 500GB 7200 RPM HDD, 16GB RAM, a GTX 950M 2GB video card, and Win 10 Pro.


    Any issues with getting a Lenovo? I've used one of their workstation laptops in the past for a few years and didn't have issues, but am a little more familiar with Dell.

    Is there any reason to get Win 10 Pro instead of Home, as I'm likely not going to need to connect to a network?

    Still not sure if I want to forgo a support plan as I've never damaged a laptop nor had any unsolvable issue but anything can happen in 3 years.

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    anything over 1k is gonna be decent, do yourself a favor and buy a $1200 one from costco, use the extra couple hundred to buy their IPR, then toss this one down the stairs a week before IPR ends and you get a brand new unit.
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    If you're going to carry it everyday I recommend getting something light and using school resources for graphics intensive work

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    Save the 1200$ and just get a 600-800$ i7 gaming laptop on Kijiji and modify accordingly (RAM, SSD). You will almost never be running on Battery power, so an old battery is a non-issue.

    Here is an example unit I would get in your case:

    https://www.kijiji.ca/v-laptops/calg...ationFlag=true


    NOTE: Sketchup is quite specific on its AMD requirements:

    quote:

    3D class video card with 1GB of memory or higher and supports hardware acceleration. Please ensure that the video card driver supports OpenGL version 3.0 or higher and is up to date.
    SketchUp's performance relies heavily on the graphics card driver and its ability to support OpenGL 3.0 or higher.
    Historically, people have seen problems with Intel-based cards with SketchUp. We don't recommend using these graphics cards with SketchUp at this time.
    Last edited by revelations; 08-16-2017 at 02:06 AM.

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    I had literally the exact same scenario in March and I ended up getting the MSi GL62M VRE. I didn't get the SSD option, instead putting that money towards the GFX which is a 1050Ti. Not sure how long you plan on keeping your computer, I'm hoping this one will last me 4 years or so. I also got the i5 7300 as opposed to the i7 7700 as I didn't think the premium was worth it.

    You can see it [here](https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/m...hics-drops-799). This is exactly what I purchased minus the SSD. I had top men research lots of laptops and this was the one that I felt offered the most bang for the buck and ticked all of the boxes that I had. I bought mine from Newegg.ca which at the time, you couldn't get the SSD and the Ti at the same time. You could either get the 1050 w/ 2 GB of vRAM and the SSD or the 1 TB HDD and 1050 Ti with 4 GB of vRAM but maybe you could get both the SSD and Ti now, I'm not sure. Anyways, if you get this thing from the States it's even cheaper. Plus it has an IPS display! But only for the 1050 Ti computers.

    In case you can't tell, I love this laptop. Obviously it's not the nicest one out there but I couldn't be happier with it considering my requirements.

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    I'd just get a used T-series ThinkPad for a few hundred bucks. Shit, my 9 year old T400 still works like new and would meet all the requirements you list. You can get those for around $100. Do some asking around on the ThinkPad subreddit, the people there can give good advice on a machine that will be more than you need at a reasonable price. You don't need a $1200 laptop to do a bit of word processing for class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FixedGear View Post
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    I'd just get a used T-series ThinkPad for a few hundred bucks. Shit, my 9 year old T400 still works like new and would meet all the requirements you list. You can get those for around $100. Do some asking around on the ThinkPad subreddit, the people there can give good advice on a machine that will be more than you need at a reasonable price. You don't need a $1200 laptop to do a bit of word processing for class.
    +1 for Lenovo ThinkPad X. X61t from 2008 still going strong.
    Plus it's awesome to have the dock at home for second mon + speakers etc (not sure if consumer line has these or if it's business line specific)

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    XPS 13 or 15 ( whichever size you prefer / can afford ), everyone I know with one LOVES it.
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    This is one of the best 'everyday' deals I have seen on a laptop with good specs and a low price:

    http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/...10573748.aspx?

    No i7 but it has a big SSD and 16GB RAM along with discrete graphics. It also has a matte display which is becoming rare in the laptop world.

    If you want to spend a bit more, $1500 buys you the entry-mid level Dell XPS 13, XPS 15, HP Spectre, or an Asus Zenbook - they won't have discrete graphics but they will be extremely portable and reasonably powerful.

    Nothing wrong with your Lenovo idea, they are great laptops and good value - the cheaper ones are just big.

    No discrete graphics but the mid-range XPS 15's are $200 off right now:

    http://www.dell.com/en-ca/shop/produ...10e&l=en&s=dhs

    You don't need W10 PRO, home is fine.

    I wouldn't bother with an old used laptop - most people treat them like crap from what I have seen. Also if your usage will be fairly light, you should focus on figuring out your keyboard preferences, screen preferences, and size preferences.

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    ^with all due respect, with regards to your last comment, basically every post at /r/ThinkPad proves otherwise.

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    I think I would go with something fairly lightweight like that Zenbook. I have used lots of CAD and modeling on an I5 without issue. I have even used it on my Macbook without issue.

    It also sucks carrying around something heavy and having a laptop that drains battery very quick.

    Also, when I was in school, I would often just use the computers at school for any heavy CAD usage because using a small laptop screen is tough when using dual monitors (Some schools will have labs set up like this for CAD usage).

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    Quote Originally Posted by FixedGear View Post
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    ^with all due respect, with regards to your last comment, basically every post at /r/ThinkPad proves otherwise.
    What do you mean, that an enthusiast group takes better care of their equipment than the average Joe on Kijiji? I looked at that subreddit and didn't see anything out of the ordinary. I'm a huge Lenovo fan, I just would never buy a used laptop from a random off Kijiji, that's all I meant by my comment. I also would never recommend someone buy into 3-4 year old technology for CAD usage.
    Last edited by Mitsu3000gt; 08-17-2017 at 09:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsu3000gt View Post
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    What do you mean, that an enthusiast group takes better care of their equipment than the average Joe on Kijiji? I looked at that subreddit and didn't see anything out of the ordinary. I'm a huge Lenovo fan, I just would never buy a used laptop from a random off Kijiji, that's all I meant by my comment. I also would never recommend someone buy into 3-4 year old technology for CAD usage.
    What I mean is that many of the posts there are people looking to purchase, or reporting the purchase, of used Thinkpads. Post after post is about people purchasing/refurbing "old" machines. For example, a guy just posted yesterday that he bought a used X220 without HDD for $40 from Goodwill. The T-series and X-series are built like tanks and will generally live forever, even in the hands of non-enthusiasts. So my point is that your statement "I wouldn't bother with an old used laptop - most people treat them like crap from what I have seen" doesn't apply to certain lines of Thinkpad, IMO. The posts at /r/thinkpad are daily proof of this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FixedGear View Post
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    So my point is that your statement "I wouldn't bother with an old used laptop - most people treat them like crap from what I have seen" doesn't apply to certain lines of Thinkpad, IMO. The posts at /r/thinkpad are daily proof of this.
    Agree. My X61t treated like crap long outlived my HP Pavilion treated with care.

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    I would not recommend getting a heavy gaming laptop to use for school. You'll hate lugging that thing around within the first week.

    The E series ThinkPads are cheap, but they're not made as well as the 'real' (T or X series, for instance) ThinkPads. We got a couple E5xx series on sale at Mem Ex at an old job of mine, and while I never personally worked on them, the IT guy that was in charge of them said he was not impressed with them at all.

    If you can't afford a new T or X, you can look at the used market, as previously mentioned. Just be careful, because random people on Kijiji will not treat their equipment as well as IT guys or an enthusiast group like r/thinkpad. But in general, the T and X ThinkPads are extremely durable...I picked up a 3 year old T430s (s = slim model) from work, and it wasn't taken out of the office very much by the person it was assigned to, so it was in great condition. It almost felt new, once I wiped the dust off, cleaned the screen, and installed Windows 10. That thing is now my daily driver!

    Your other option, although it does not meet your 15" or discrete graphics requirements, is a Surface Pro tablet. They are amazing for taking notes, and you can get one at a decent price at Costco. I've seen the Core i5 models (the i7 won't be that much of a step up) with 256GB SSD's and either 4GB or 8GB of RAM at Costco for around $1500~1600.

    Does CAD/SketchUp really require a discrete (NVIDIA/AMD) graphics card, or will Intel HD Graphics do the job?

    I'm biased towards ThinkPads, and every other brand of laptop I've owned, I have not been happy with, haha. So my personal recommendation will be a T series. :p

    You don't need Windows 10 Pro, but if you're ordering a new ThinkPad T470, it's a $40 upgrade...I personally would get it, but you may not necessarily need it. Keep in mind, Microsoft charges like $150 to upgrade Home to Pro after the fact, so if Lenovo is offering it for $40, I don't think that's a bad investment.

    I just configured this T470p for you on Lenovo's website...total came out to $1451 + tax.
    http://i.imgur.com/XHzk2pl.png

    Couple of things on the config:

    - You don't necessarily need the i7 chip...you can save between $100 and $210, depending on the selection. You'll save $100 if you drop to the i5-7440HQ...it's still a quad core, you'll just lose the hyperthreading. That i5 chip is really not that bad: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare...cmp[]=2906

    - You can probably get the 8GB RAM cheaper at Memory Express...Lenovo charged $95 for it, I left it in

    - I did not pick an SSD from Lenovo, because they overcharge for them like crazy...you can get a 256GB Samsung 850 Evo for like $100. Swapping a hard drive in a laptop is easy...if you're not comfortable doing it, anyone on Beyond can help you out. You can keep the 500GB drive as a spare...you can even get a USB 3.0 enclosure for it, and turn it into an external data drive! (The T470p only has one usable storage slot, unlike previous ThinkPads, where you could put a second drive in the UltraBay)

    - I picked Windows 10 Home for you, as you don't necessarily need Pro...but as I said, at $40, it's not a bad upgrade


    In my opinion, the T470p will be a far better option than the E570, and it will last longer. It's more expensive, but it's a far better buy. That E570 is not a real ThinkPad...trust me, it does not live up to the ThinkPad standards that you and I are used to.
    Last edited by Stealth22; 08-17-2017 at 10:41 AM.

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    Thanks for the responses. A lot of good points. I had been wanting to reply but my younger sister's husband, 39, had a heart attack Tuesday night (he's doing well, after a stent and some meds). Then I wake up Wednesday morning to see that a former colleague and friend--about 10 years my senior and whom I had lost touch with the last couple of years but started to get back in touch via FB--post on FB that he was on suicide watch at a hospital. All that threw me for a bit of a loop yesterday.


    Quote Originally Posted by revelations View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Save the 1200$ and just get a 600-800$ i7 gaming laptop on Kijiji and modify accordingly (RAM, SSD). You will almost never be running on Battery power, so an old battery is a non-issue.

    Here is an example unit I would get in your case:

    https://www.kijiji.ca/v-laptops/calg...ationFlag=true


    NOTE: Sketchup is quite specific on its AMD requirements:

    quote:

    3D class video card with 1GB of memory or higher and supports hardware acceleration. Please ensure that the video card driver supports OpenGL version 3.0 or higher and is up to date.
    SketchUp's performance relies heavily on the graphics card driver and its ability to support OpenGL 3.0 or higher.
    Historically, people have seen problems with Intel-based cards with SketchUp. We don't recommend using these graphics cards with SketchUp at this time.
    With SketchUp, I learned it last fall on my wife's Macbook Pro, which has an NVIDIA card. But it is the previous version of SketchUp as the latest requires an OS update, which then screws up her AutoCAD license and some others.


    All,

    I have thought about and looked at some laptops on Kijiji, but having been out of the tech loop for a while now, I don't know how to tell which laptops are upgradable and to what extent. Of course, as long as they give the exact model I could probably Google that info, but they don't always give the model, such as for a $600 ASUS that I have my eye on. If I knew I could slap a 256GB SSD in there, it would still be cheap, not that an SSD is necessary. I just want quick boot up, less power drain, and quiet.

    And then there is the issue that has been brought up regarding used laptops--it's likely 2+ year-old tech, which means a bit slower and perhaps more likely to run into issues two or three years down the road. But for the price, it is tempting, especially if upgradable. Having said that, a cheaper new computer that is upgradable down the road could work.

    The whole reason for this is that the school only has something like 26 computers in the library for public use. I'm not going to fight little kids, although I suspect many will have laptops. And I don't want to be the old guy at the front of the class with the old tech. lol I may have to swallow my pride...

    As for weight, that isn't an issue. I was used to lugging around a 17" workstation, no problem. I still wouldn't mind a 17" for the extra screen space but I think I want to go with something a bit more portable.

    So, a couple of votes for Lenovo, one for MSi, a couple suggestions for ASUS. I am going to wait a bit longer just to see what sales may come up but will keep my eyes on Kijiji.

    Appreciate the help and suggestions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by duaner View Post
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    So, a couple of votes for Lenovo, one for MSi, a couple suggestions for ASUS. I am going to wait a bit longer just to see what sales may come up but will keep my eyes on Kijiji.

    Appreciate the help and suggestions.
    First off, sorry to hear about brother-in-law and friend, hope everything goes well.

    I actually had an Asus laptop for sale that would have fit your criteria perfectly, but I sold it already.

    I'll tell you one thing though...being biased towards and used to ThinkPads, I was not impressed with how difficult the Asus was to worth with, in terms of upgrades and tinkering with it. ThinkPads are just so easy to take apart, and Lenovo even gives you the map, all the way down to the motherboard.

    I don't know how, but I damaged the bezel/palmrest on my Asus when taking it apart, and had to buy a new one online. Worked out for the buyer, cause he got a laptop with a new bezel. But still...no documentation or help from Asus, and it was a pain to do anything on that laptop. I'm back to a ThinkPad, and I'm going to be a ThinkPad guy for life now.

    One place to keep an eye on is the ERA (electronic recycling association) down south. They have a store on eBay, and you can pick up from their warehouse for free, no need to pay shipping. They have some decent stuff from time to time. I just checked, no ThinkPads right now, or any laptops that perked my interest. But I picked up a Lenovo desktop from them not too long ago (decent i5 system, 4th gen CPU and 16GB of RAM), and I only paid like $300 or so for it.

    I still say you should go with a T470p, and get something brand new that will last you 5+ years. But that's easy for me to say, it's not my money!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth22 View Post
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    I would not recommend getting a heavy gaming laptop to use for school. You'll hate lugging that thing around within the first week.
    I know I just said that weight wasn't an issue in the past with lugging around a 17" workstation, but forgot that now I will have books too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth22 View Post
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    The E series ThinkPads are cheap, but they're not made as well as the 'real' (T or X series, for instance) ThinkPads. We got a couple E5xx series on sale at Mem Ex at an old job of mine, and while I never personally worked on them, the IT guy that was in charge of them said he was not impressed with them at all.
    Good to know. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth22 View Post
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    If you can't afford a new T or X, you can look at the used market, as previously mentioned. Just be careful, because random people on Kijiji will not treat their equipment as well as IT guys or an enthusiast group like r/thinkpad. But in general, the T and X ThinkPads are extremely durable...I picked up a 3 year old T430s (s = slim model) from work, and it wasn't taken out of the office very much by the person it was assigned to, so it was in great condition. It almost felt new, once I wiped the dust off, cleaned the screen, and installed Windows 10. That thing is now my daily driver!

    Your other option, although it does not meet your 15" or discrete graphics requirements, is a Surface Pro tablet. They are amazing for taking notes, and you can get one at a decent price at Costco. I've seen the Core i5 models (the i7 won't be that much of a step up) with 256GB SSD's and either 4GB or 8GB of RAM at Costco for around $1500~1600.
    I don't have a Costco membership.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth22 View Post
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    Does CAD/SketchUp really require a discrete (NVIDIA/AMD) graphics card, or will Intel HD Graphics do the job?
    That I don't actually know. I've only ever needed workstations with the NVIDIA Quadro cards, which were necessary, and all 3D CAD programs I've seen seem to say it's a requirement. For light 2D, perhaps not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth22 View Post
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    I'm biased towards ThinkPads, and every other brand of laptop I've owned, I have not been happy with, haha. So my personal recommendation will be a T series. :p
    I've almost always used Dell but there was one P70 or P71 Lenovo in there and didn't have a problem with any of them.

    You don't need Windows 10 Pro, but if you're ordering a new ThinkPad T470, it's a $40 upgrade...I personally would get it, but you may not necessarily need it. Keep in mind, Microsoft charges like $150 to upgrade Home to Pro after the fact, so if Lenovo is offering it for $40, I don't think that's a bad investment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth22 View Post
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    I just configured this T470p for you on Lenovo's website...total came out to $1451 + tax.
    http://i.imgur.com/XHzk2pl.png

    Couple of things on the config:

    - You don't necessarily need the i7 chip...you can save between $100 and $210, depending on the selection. You'll save $100 if you drop to the i5-7440HQ...it's still a quad core, you'll just lose the hyperthreading. That i5 chip is really not that bad: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare...cmp[]=2906

    - You can probably get the 8GB RAM cheaper at Memory Express...Lenovo charged $95 for it, I left it in

    - I did not pick an SSD from Lenovo, because they overcharge for them like crazy...you can get a 256GB Samsung 850 Evo for like $100. Swapping a hard drive in a laptop is easy...if you're not comfortable doing it, anyone on Beyond can help you out. You can keep the 500GB drive as a spare...you can even get a USB 3.0 enclosure for it, and turn it into an external data drive! (The T470p only has one usable storage slot, unlike previous ThinkPads, where you could put a second drive in the UltraBay)

    - I picked Windows 10 Home for you, as you don't necessarily need Pro...but as I said, at $40, it's not a bad upgrade


    In my opinion, the T470p will be a far better option than the E570, and it will last longer. It's more expensive, but it's a far better buy. That E570 is not a real ThinkPad...trust me, it does not live up to the ThinkPad standards that you and I are used to.
    When I posted the OP, I was under the impression that the i5 was dual core and i7 quad core. I have since learned that both can be quad core and it is the hyper threading that is the main difference in the i7. Would a newer i5 be better than an older i7?

    As for adding memory and an SSD, I would need help with those (I've added RAM and hard drives to desktops, never a laptop), and that is something I could do as needed in the future, keeping initial costs down.

    Of course, whichever laptop I choose, I think more than anything, reliability is the most important consideration.

    Thanks for the suggestions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth22 View Post
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    First off, sorry to hear about brother-in-law and friend, hope everything goes well.
    Thanks, I appreciate it. I'm sure both will be well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth22 View Post
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    I actually had an Asus laptop for sale that would have fit your criteria perfectly, but I sold it already.

    I'll tell you one thing though...being biased towards and used to ThinkPads, I was not impressed with how difficult the Asus was to worth with, in terms of upgrades and tinkering with it. ThinkPads are just so easy to take apart, and Lenovo even gives you the map, all the way down to the motherboard.

    I don't know how, but I damaged the bezel/palmrest on my Asus when taking it apart, and had to buy a new one online. Worked out for the buyer, cause he got a laptop with a new bezel. But still...no documentation or help from Asus, and it was a pain to do anything on that laptop. I'm back to a ThinkPad, and I'm going to be a ThinkPad guy for life now.

    One place to keep an eye on is the ERA (electronic recycling association) down south. They have a store on eBay, and you can pick up from their warehouse for free, no need to pay shipping. They have some decent stuff from time to time. I just checked, no ThinkPads right now, or any laptops that perked my interest. But I picked up a Lenovo desktop from them not too long ago (decent i5 system, 4th gen CPU and 16GB of RAM), and I only paid like $300 or so for it.

    I still say you should go with a T470p, and get something brand new that will last you 5+ years. But that's easy for me to say, it's not my money!!
    Ha ha! Another important consideration then is ease of upgradability. I'm all for keeping something good going for as long as possible, I just cringe a bit at starting with something already a bit old. But cheaper is good right now.

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    It's normally a PITA to replace the hard on newer laptops. Back in the day, it was simple, but most of the time now it's a ton of screws, then carefully prying off the top cover. The scary part is the ribbon cables attached to the motherboard and top cover. They're very short, and very fragile. Trying to get them back in on assembly will turn you into an Atheist Duaner

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    Latest Threads: 02-18-2010, 02:02 PM
  3. WTB: A decent truck for a decent price.

    By xxscandalous in forum Trucks, SUVs, Vans, Trailers
    Replies: 3
    Latest Threads: 05-27-2007, 08:49 PM
  4. WTB decent car between $1500-$3000

    By eeseen racing in forum Cars, Trucks, Motorbikes, and Trailers
    Replies: 6
    Latest Threads: 11-26-2006, 03:43 PM
  5. wtb: 16s with decent rubber and decent price

    By aznhavok in forum Automotive Parts [Wheels/Tires]
    Replies: 0
    Latest Threads: 02-07-2005, 10:50 PM

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