If you could start a new career

[XylathaneGTR]

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All that being said, I'm gonna get my PMP soon. Work will pay for it and I have the experience... can't hurt to have it.

That's why I got it a few years back!

[finboy]

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Have you looked at some of the prep books? The material is sooooo dry.

In the middle of the classes now, 1500 pages of pure uuuugh

[ExtraSlow]

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Hey thought I'd put this here in case it can help anyone else. If you are looking for a way to transition to another industry (or just get a job) and aren't sure how to figure out where your skills might be most useful, there's a project to help you. Here's the description:
"Transferable Competencies for Oil and Gas Professionals

The project aims to assist individuals who have been affected by the downturn in the oil sector by providing them with another tool to help them find new work that uses their transferable skills and competencies.

Led by Canada West Foundation (CWF) this joint action research project brings together partners from the GoldMind Project, Jobickle, Vametric and Griffiths Sheppard Consulting."

I just finished the intro session, and it sounds like a very cool project. Basically it match up job openings at employers with job seekers that have relevant skills. Where it differs from other programs is that it strips out all the crap that people would normally use to unconsciously discriminate against a job seeker. Things like age, address, ethnic name etc isn't the first thing a company sees, it's actually the last. So by the time they have that information, they are already convinced that you are a good fit for them in terms of specific experience, technical and soft-skills.

There's a research component to it, and they are in the early stages, so there aren't a pile of jobs in the database yet, but they are adding more through the next couple of months.

You do need to attend a session to get involved I think. I found this through the Goldmind project newsletter, and I saw it on linkedin as well. If you are interested and you can't find it those ways, PM me and I can get you in touch with someone to sign you up. It's all free, so that's nice. Longer term I could see this being a great way to crack into other industries. It remains to be see if this has a huge short-term benefit, but I'm a dreamer, so I really like it.

Huh, I posted this in March, and it wasn't new then, but cbc has an article about it now. I find it funny the first person they quoted was an unemployed MBA.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/oilp...jobs-1.4643628

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Tik-Tok]

Some people would rob their mother for the ends

[themack89]

If you guys are looking at Project Management (construction), you can use me as a resource.

I got laid off from MWD, then learned how to do estimation and project management for mechanical (commercial HVAC / Plumbing). I was kind of thrown into the fire with zero support, so I had to learn pretty quick or die. It was fun. I got a lot of opportunities to outsmart engineers, and be outsmarted by engineers (I'm an economics guy by trade), and basically just learn an entirely new industry.

Since then, I have moved on from mechanical because I thought it was too much effort for such low reward (high technical expertise, attention to detail, thin margin. etc.) so I went into earthworks estimation and project management. Found myself as a 1/3 partner in an excavation company that is pumping decent revenue. I have hired a kid out of university (again, economics program graduate with no construction experience) how to be a PM without ever touching a shovel or a wrench. After 7 months with me, I now pay him $75k to work from home. Nobody has any idea how inexperienced he actually is because I made sure he could dodge the land mines and knew how to navigate the lexicon. If they did know, they would fucking puke.

Anyways, the point I'm trying to illustrate is Project Management is doable, and it is teachable in a short period of time. So is commercial estimation. Ask away if you are curious.

*Edit.. I've already got a few PM's. I was hoping you guys could ask the questions in the thread (unless its really personal) so then everyone could benefit from the responses and discussions.

[xxviet]

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If you guys are looking at Project Management (construction), you can use me as a resource.

I got laid off from MWD, then learned how to do estimation and project management for mechanical (commercial HVAC / Plumbing). I was kind of thrown into the fire with zero support, so I had to learn pretty quick or die. It was fun. I got a lot of opportunities to outsmart engineers, and be outsmarted by engineers (I'm an economics guy by trade), and basically just learn an entirely new industry.

Since then, I have moved on from mechanical because I thought it was too much effort for such low reward (high technical expertise, attention to detail, thin margin. etc.) so I went into earthworks estimation and project management. Found myself as a 1/3 partner in an excavation company that is pumping decent revenue. I have hired a kid out of university (again, economics program graduate with no construction experience) how to be a PM without ever touching a shovel or a wrench. After 7 months with me, I now pay him $75k to work from home. Nobody has any idea how inexperienced he actually is because I made sure he could dodge the land mines and knew how to navigate the lexicon. If they did know, they would fucking puke.

Anyways, the point I'm trying to illustrate is Project Management is doable, and it is teachable in a short period of time. So is commercial estimation. Ask away if you are curious.

*Edit.. I've already got a few PM's. I was hoping you guys could ask the questions in the thread (unless its really personal) so then everyone could benefit from the responses and discussions.

Hey Mack, I was wondering how you got into project management basically without any any experience? Did you need a bachelors to get into Project management?

[themack89]

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Hey Mack, I was wondering how you got into project management basically without any any experience? Did you need a bachelors to get into Project management?

I was a bit lucky to get in, as I had a connection at a smaller firm who wasn't as rigid with their qualifications. A bachelors is not required, but it definitely helps because it signals you can read well, write well, and probably are able to use MS Word / Excel (there is a lot of Word & Excel requirements).

If I was to roll back the clock to my early twenties and planned on getting into construction management, this is how I would do it:

1) Apply for a Bachelors of Construction Management; or some similar program which will grant you some practical skills such as building models, lots of reading and writing, how to use Microsoft products, how to think big picture. (This is actually why Economics worked out so well for me, it just happened to be one of those well balanced programs).

2A) Work the summers in construction (ideally commercial plumbing, because the plumbers are on site from hour zero to completion, e.g. foundation plumbing until the building is nearly finished and toilets/fixtures go in). Alternatively, become a general laborer for a general contractor (again, they are on site from hour zero until completion). This would allow you to get a feel for the entire construction process. Pay attention to every trade, and understand what their role is, and at what point they would show up in the project. Who they have to coordinate activities with, etc. I cannot stress enough how difficult my life was because I had never spent time on a construction site (other than the rigs). I spent a lot of time watching YouTube videos to make up for it.

2B) Spend as much time as you can with your foreman or supervisor looking at the construction drawings. This is an invaluable skill.

3) Graduate Bachelors, now equipped with construction experience as well as the book smarts education.

3A) Approach a smaller company and apply directly to become an Estimator or Project Manager. Estimating is a good place to start because it forces you to be familiar with many aspects of construction (if you aren't familiar, then you'll have a hell of a tough time pricing it out). Estimating also teaches you to think about all aspects of construction economically.

3B) Approach a mega cap (e.g. Ledcor, PCL, Ellis Don, Graham... OR even an engineering company, such as Stantec, Urban Systems, Rocky Point, Integral Group, McEllhanney, etc.) to become a Project Coordinator. Project Coordinator is basically the Project Manager's assistant, who does all the nitty gritty paperwork (this is actually where you learn the most about 'doing' Project Management). The bigger companies would never let you be a full fledged Project Manager without field testing you first, especially since your resume would be relatively empty for PM related stuff.

4) Be open minded in your learning. Don't ever be afraid to ask questions, but time the questions well. If you think it's a question you could figure out with Google, then Google it. I had to Google a lot of shit in my day (I still Google some stuff, like today I had to look up what an 'Inside-out Pipe Wrench' was... pretty nifty). In this industry it's almost expected, because NOBODY knows everything about all of the trades.

5) Grow some balls. Be prepared to make decisions, and be prepared to accept the consequences if those decisions suck. You will make mistakes, but it is important for your superiors to see that you are actually willing to make decisions and think about something, rather than just always asking someone else. Define the line between being too needy, while also being wise to ask others.

[legendboy]

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Hey Mack, I was wondering how you got into project management basically without any any experience? Did you need a bachelors to get into Project management?

Look online there are a million options for PMP. Bachelors degree is helpful for hours (3000hr credit) Nobody I really know doing PM work has a PMP designation. Most are P.Eng or nothing.

I was also working in HVAC on manufacturing side. Nobody else wanted to do the paperwork required when bidding E&P rfq's but I said fuck it and went ahead and started doing them. Start to finish, bid submittal form, drawings, databooks...everything start to finish by myself. This quickly led to more of a project management role and started making the company more money. My last big pj was 14 months worth of work, 10M and second last was almost 2 years 2.5M

There are a ton of ways to get into PM work. Its like being an adult babysitter.

[themack89]

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Absolutely not. Look online there are a million options for PMP

This is true.

The material impact of having a bachelor's if you're going for your PMP is just reducing the number of hours you need.

To me a PMP is like a formal recognition of being a war veteran. If you have survived long enough working in project management to actually obtain a PMP, then you probably don't need a PMP. Anybody who has booked enough hours to obtain a PMP probably wouldn't have a ton of difficulty getting a new job if they didn't have a PMP, unless the job they wanted specifically asked for a PMP. This is because you need a shit ton of experience to get a PMP.

It's kind of similar to an MBA. You really don't learn a ton in an MBA I don't think, but it's considered pretty natural to go and pursue one only after you've spent a lot of time in the business world. What you get out of it are some good industry connections, a few things that are nice to know, and some pretty letters for your name. But it'd be really stupid to try and 'shortcut' getting one, because it not only miscommunicates how good you really are, but it's like using the pretty letters as a means to an end....in reality, the letters are a standalone 'end'. (This is my opinion, take it or leave it).

[ExtraSlow]

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This is true.

The material impact of having a bachelor's if you're going for your PMP is just reducing the number of hours you need.

To me a PMP is like a formal recognition of being a war veteran. If you have survived long enough working in project management to actually obtain a PMP, then you probably don't need a PMP. Anybody who has booked enough hours to obtain a PMP probably wouldn't have a ton of difficulty getting a new job if they didn't have a PMP, unless the job they wanted specifically asked for a PMP. This is because you need a shit ton of experience to get a PMP.

It's kind of similar to an MBA. You really don't learn a ton in an MBA I don't think, but it's considered pretty natural to go and pursue one only after you've spent a lot of time in the business world. What you get out of it are some good industry connections, a few things that are nice to know, and some pretty letters for your name. But it'd be really stupid to try and 'shortcut' getting one, because it not only miscommunicates how good you really are, but it's like using the pretty letters as a means to an end....in reality, the letters are a standalone 'end'. (This is my opinion, take it or leave it).

Your opinions of pmp and mba mirror mine. The jobs that require those skills that also match my skills would recognize my work experience as sufficient. Those that would not recognize my work experience would also not look at me if I had those letters.

[CompletelyNumb]

Long time no see M! Glad you landed on your feet.

[themack89]

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Long time no see M! Glad you landed on your feet.

Good to see you're still around too. Don't know if I landed on my feet yet, still haven't hit 30 years old yet haha. Less than a year left of being a kid. How you been keeping?

[bigbadboss101]

Bumping this instead of starting a new thread.

After 12 years of contracting with same O&G firm the middle man contracting company left me a voicemail and an email last Tuesday saying client decided to terminate my contract and don't go into work Wednesday. No real explanation from O&G company except that it's another cutback. Doesn't help that I am one of the most productive person there doing that role (based on the reports they run) and lot of co workers, ex managers and peers endorsed my work. We have a new manager, relatively new director and the only source of info they have is from our team lead. I am not a yes man and don't do just what people tell me to do. Therefore our lead and I butted heads which I assume lead to her giving my name with manager as who should go.

Of late have been doing SAP MM/PM, master data work. Setting up spare parts for commissioning and startup. Working with engineers and vendors etc.
Prior to that I worked on: SAP HR and EHS configuration, ABAP reporting.

Now trying to figure what to get into next!!

[Buster]

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I am not a yes man and don't do just what people tell me to do. !

You might want to reconsider this position on things.

[bigbadboss101]

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You might want to reconsider this position on things.

What do you mean? One need to be sensible and not be a puppet. Balance and do what is right. Of course you do what’s good for the team but need to stand up and give your opinions.

[revelations]

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You might want to reconsider this position on things.

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What do you mean? One need to be sensible and not be a puppet. Balance and do what is right. Of course you do what’s good for the team but need to stand up and give your opinions.

I think he means that, as a contractor, you generally do as you're told.... ie yes man to whatever (no matter how odd) their request (obviously, nothing criminal).

Employees can dictate their terms a little differently.

[bigbadboss101]

Yes. In general I/we do what is best for the team. However if the team lead is wrong (and people know), some sit there and nod, some speak up.
It is what it is. From talking to a few people that are there working and a couple who are not with the company anymore they said lot of good, talented and hard working people have been let go. And lot of floaters are there because they conform.

- - - Updated - - -

Going back on topic. I guess for a lot of us we can look for a new career that we think will be hot and in demand for the next X years. Some will look for something they are passionate about. If it can be both then excellent.

Who else is transitioning?

[Buster]

I meant that when someone is writing you a cheque, and you want them to continue writing you cheques, the best attitude is: "how can I make you happy". It is an under-rated skill to be able to look around a room at a variety of stakeholders (your employer, a client, yourself), and see what the priority is for each of them and then figure out how to best deliver on those priorities. Instead you said you weren't a yes man, you only do things you think you should, and you butted heads with people senior to you. This is very different from, as you say, giving your opinions.

Part of it is understanding that, unless specifically told otherwise, you actually DO need to be a puppet. If your job is to be a puppet, and you are convinced that your job is to not be a puppet - well those cheques seem to stop coming and you find yourself posting in career threads.

[bigbadboss101]

Well I have been there for 12 years, working on different teams/groups. Have had many good testimonies and recommendations. Our lead has been with us for hmm 4 years? It is recently that she became difficult and while my colleagues believe it's best to avoid disagreements, I stated my points and butted heads. Right now budget is tight and while a few leads would love to have me on their teams, their hands are tied. My guess is our director needed to cut budget and my lead gave my name. I spoke to people on a neighboring team as well as folks on my team. They are scrambling now because they do not have a backup. The plan to for the peeps from another group to train my 3 ex-colleagues. Our director is relatively new and our manager is one month into her role. So all info on me is based on what our lead says.

We will see how things goes. Projects deadlines are in jeopardy. On my last day I had 8 projects on my plate, plants start up/commissioning. New projects comes thru regularly. There are colleagues who need to do that parts before I get my part done, and after.