Central Europe

[Mitsu3000gt]

Has anyone done something similar to Vienna, Prague, Budapest? I think we're going to put the original plan of Iceland on hold and go there next year in a warmer month, so now we're most likely going to head for Central Europe in early October.

WestJet has October flights for $5XX which gets us to London (Gatwick), maybe poke around for a day or two before heading East. Then I was thinking fly to either Vienna or Budapest (not sure where the best place to start is?), use the train in-between them, and see all 3 cities in 14-16 days. Then fly back to London to go home.

Has anyone done these countries before? Anything I need to be aware of? Are the trains connecting the countries fast & easy? Are those 3 areas as safe as any other city? AirBNB or Hotel?

Appreciate any info or advice you can give!

[Mostwanted]

Went to all of those places a couple years back, mind you it was those one month tours but in general the places felt safe and actually very quiet, besides Vienna just so many tourists. Quite enjoyed it actually, wouldnt mind going again without a tour so I can actually explore and stay in the city for more than a couple of days

[Kobe]

I feel I can answer this pretty well.

I've been to all the places, and lived in Budapest...

I'll start with Budapest Since I spent the most time there..

I was planning on staying the summer in Budapest and ended up staying 19 months..

The city is amazing, there is so much to see, I think I even made a thread about it (Don't remember now) - The prices are super cheap and people speak English for the most part (At least in Budapest)

The downside of Budapest was def the food, most of the places weren't that great and the service in general sucked, but the prices were cheap so it made up for it.

I ended up renting a two bedroom downtown for 600EUR + electricity this was my view



The thing on the right is the Dohany Street Great Synagogue. You can google exactly how central my apartment was compared to the price. This is how cheap it is there...

The nightlife was good, could go out every night and there was something else going, can get a massage for around $30usd/hr at the Szechenyi thermal baths or any of the other massage places around.. Had a bunch of them done, there was also a happy ending one (https://massage666.com/?lang=en) (work warning)

I honestly never got bored there, didn't matter time of day always something to do, and the tram was good, except for how the check tickets afterwards and lots of people got fines for it.. (Leaving the Metro walking outside you have to have your ticket on you still)

But ya any questions, I'll gladly answer..



Vienna - The city is super nice, and high-end, classy it was really nice, but other then walking around and checking things out there wasn't much to do, if you plan on going to do nightlife stay away, it's really not a great city to go out in. Had a sketchy experience for sure, we found a bar and it was like Trance music with a bunch of deadbeats inside - I Remember I had about 500EUR on me (I know stupid) and some guy saw it and started talking shit 2 me, so I just bought him a drink and was on my way, so he wouldn't rob me..

Prague - The city is super cool, when i was there it was raining 24/7 but the views are also unreal there, and I'd highly recommend it as well. Only downside was the rain, still remember it rained hard non-stop, and people didn't speak English as well there as Budapest and Vienna.


I went to all 3 cities before I decided on Budapest, so it's obviously my favorite of the three and I think the most to see there..

I'd also recommend Croatia around there but in October most of the people are back in Zagreb and the city itself wasn't that great, If you ever go in the summer hit up all the small towns on the coast, they are all unreal all the Croatians leave Zagreb and live on the coasts for the summer.

With the Train you can use the EuroPass but it's pretty expensive and i'd avoid it since you can't just jump on any Train and only the EuroPass ones - where a regular train will be cheaper and travel more, with that said the Gypsies like to rob the regular trains when your sleeping vs I heard less (Or non?) horror stories about the EuroRail Trains..

You can also look into Salzburg in Austria it was pretty cool.

[Mitsu3000gt]

^^ Great info, thanks for taking the time to write that.

The trains I was looking at were "Rail Jet" so I am not sure if that is part of the EuroRail system or not. Seemed to be a popular and inexpensive way to go between the 3 countries. We could maybe stick to 1st class cars to avoid the gypsies. Do the gypsies really just buy a ticket and ride the train for 2-4hr? Seems like an inefficient way to steal from people haha. While googling to see how safe all 3 places were, basically everyone said it's safe except petty theft and pick pocketing was rampant against tourists. Would it be a big problem if I took a DSLR there? I definitely hope to take lots of pictures, but if someone is just going to steal it I will leave it at home haha. I imagine a ton of tourists will be going around with cameras though.

Salzberg is a good idea, we would be up for day trips or overnight trips within the country or to check out surrounding areas. Croatia might be a bit too far, I think it was 6+ hours by train, and if it's not that great in October then we will probably pass.

It will just be my girlfriend and I, so a lower-key sight seeing trip for the most part. Neither of us are really into nightlife, mostly just checking out the sights or hiking, eating, and enjoying some beers. Castles, Mideval or WWII history, etc. are also interesting to us.

Would you go Prague --> Vienna--> Budapest, or the reverse? I don't yet have a sense for the most efficient way to go between the 3. I think the trip to avoid is Prague --> Budapest as that is a about a 6hr train ride but I could be wrong. We will be flying into London Gatwick, then taking an Easyjet or something similar to the first country in the chain.

Slovenia and Slovakia both are close and look cool, did you visit either? Bratislava looks like it's only about 40km from Vienna and could be a day trip.

October looks like Prague's 3rd lowest rainfall month based on historicals, so hopefully it's OK for us around that time.

It's actually looking like we can do up to 19 days (including travel) so we should have a little more time than I originally thought. Thanks again for your help.

[dj_patm]

I've done Budapest and Prague. Loved both.

Budapest was my favorite. Such a laid back place, parks full of people chilling and having a picnic and wine at like 2 pm on a Wednesday. To me it was a less snobby, more grounded version of Paris. Currently still my favorite city in the world. We didn't have much time there so I'll definitely be going back one day and doing it right.

Prague is also great, it's more typical and cliche Europe than Budapest. It's also cleaner and felt easier to get around in. I found the Nightlife in Prague to be vastly over rated but we were there Sunday to Tuesday.

I've only ever driven through Vienna so I can't comment on the city but driving through Austria by the Italian border was epic. If you're going to Vienna, I'd definitely suggest trekking to the Alps too.

If you're doing central Europe I'd suggest Krakow too. The nightlife is a lot better than the other two from my experience and there is plenty to see in and around the city, with Auschwitz, Salt Mines and the mountains near by (mountains are a bit further than the other two).

I will say one downside about planning a trip around that area is that for the most part, you'll see much of the same with little variation in culture or architecture between places like Budapest, Prague and Krakow. I personally would try to start or end your trip around a coast so that you can throw in a bit of variety into your vacation.

[max_boost]

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I will say one downside about planning a trip around that area is that for the most part, you'll see much of the same with little variation in culture or architecture between places like Budapest, Prague and Krakow. I personally would try to start or end your trip around a coast so that you can throw in a bit of variety into your vacation.

Good to know. Thanks.

[Kobe]

Yes think it was the Eurorail that was expensive and not worth it (Forget the name)

As far as I remember you could buy it there, I know they had like a VIP section in Budapest with free food, I never rode on 1.

I tried to avoid the trains, only took them once in awhile but never any overnight ones, from what I have heard (Prob 5-6 people) is that when you are sleeping on the night trains the gypsys come on when the train is stopped and rob you then just get off the trains. It happens a lot. Remember a girl had a backpack with all her camera gear + laptop stolen, prob 10-20k worth of items, to always lock it to a bar or sleep holding it.


I don't think it would be a problem for the DSLR just be smart about it, don't leave the bag unattended, and lock it up.

Slovania was pretty cool, I loved Bled, we swam out to the church it was enjoyable (Prob cold in oct) you can take a boat out there and the city was pretty cool, we also went to the famous medievil castle (forget the name) but it was a complete Joke, stay away! (It's in a cave) -

With that said we did a really cool mine tour in Slovania and I'd highly recommend that, I'd have to get you the name again (I think it was Slovania) - With that said the Mining tour I did in Budapest was prob one of the most fun things I did in my life! Highly recommend that as well, full day trip.

Wizzaair is from Hungary and I know it flys to London - you can look into flights there, it was super cheap to fly (also a reason why I avoided trains) I took a bus to Salzburg once I think it was called Orangeways? It was dirt cheap.

Can also look at Ryan air your paying like 20-50eur +20EUR? per bag to fly and it saves time, but the views are also pretty cool when you travel by Bus/Train.

I'm We were planning on staying about 2-3 nights in Bratislava and ended up leaving after 24hrs, there wasn't much to see, the downtown was extremely small and It wasn't that great, I'm thinking prob the crappiest of all the cities I visited..


With that location, I'd recommend Krakow as well - Yah I'm polish but it's a super cool city, with lots of history (Can go check out Auschwitz, The Wawel Royal Castle from there if u want some older things. + it's super cheap as well. (Can Fly to Katowice as well and take a 1hr Bus to Krakow)


From travelling Europe I learned I hated to leave a place when I'm really enjoying it and want to explore it more, so I'd personally avoid booking everything in advance (Flights/Trains/Bus) and do it while you are there. getting around is simple, which way to go I'm not really sure.

Leaving 16 days to visit I'd prob do
Vienna - 2 or 3 days?
Prague - 3 days (Prague might be longer?)
Budapest 5-6 Days
Krakow 4-5 days
Salzburg - 1-2 nights -

Most places will fly to London I'm assuming though so it shouldn't be an issue.. Trains also run pretty regularly in general -

Regarding places to stay just book airbnb if you are with the GF - its like 20-50/night so very cheap as well..


London -> Krakow
Krakow -> Prague
Prague -> Vienna
Vienna -> Budapest
Budapest -> London



This is how I drove more or less and prob how I'd do it if I was you.. Depending on time spent per city thats really up to you. just research what is the best way to get to the next city when you want to go -

Wiizair
Ryanair
EasyJet

EuroRail
The Regular Rails (Cheaper but not as nice)

Buses (super cheap just take more time)



Can also go Vienna to Bled and then to Budapest - I'm just not sure how good Bled will be in October though.

I had friends from Calgary come to visit me while travelling Europe, Budapest was one of the last stops, they were going to go to Serbia and fly out to Frankfurt (I think?) but ended up just losing the funds on Serbia and everything they paid for and stayed in Budapest. Another friend was going to Croatia after (while 2 of them left) and was wondering what he should see, told him not to book in advance and just see what he wants to do, and he thanked me a ton afterwards because he wasn't tied down to leaving on a certain date and got to enjoy travelling more..

But ya whatever you decide just research rough prices and time to get from 1 location to another and then you can book a day or two in advance, same goes for AirBnb

Edit: Seems dj_patm suggested Krakow as well - agree 100%

Edit 2: Can try to fly to Dubrovnik as well and fly to london after - not sure how the flights are though.

DavidI from beyond came to visit me in Budapest twice, he loved it so much as well. I'm sure it's one of his Top 5 cities as well

[kertejud2]

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Slovenia and Slovakia both are close and look cool, did you visit either? Bratislava looks like it's only about 40km from Vienna and could be a day trip.

Slovenia is kind of a summer or a winter place, not a shoulder season place. Bled is cool and so are the caves, but I can't really say either are worth the trip if other things are catching your eye.

Bratislava is definitely worth a day trip with the time you have, there are a growing number of options for day trips, too. But it isn't worth more than a day trip. They've put a lot of money into the pedestrian realm to try and make it more tourist friendly and interesting which means there are loads of spots to grab a cheap beer and watch the people go by. If anything Bratislava is a good reprieve from the prices and crowds in Vienna to just chill out and recharge in a very pleasant city.


To piggyback on Kobe's praise of Budapest, I would budget a bit more time there than you think. It is definitely a hidden gem of a city that is worth immersing yourself in. If you're into history there are few places in the world that can match what Budapest has (the Terror Museum covers a lot of the past 100 years that the National museums don't cover, and helps paint a picture of what has shaped the people between fascism and communism both taking roots)

. Prague has been discovered and is busy as hell but it isn't as bad as people make it out to be. If you're not into the nightlife stuff then you won't really notice the bad elements that people complain about (British bachelor parties in particular). Similar to Amsterdam in that way.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Thanks guys.

Sounds like we should probably budget a bit more time in Budapest. I don't think we want to fly by the seat of our pants too much, so we will likely still book everything in advance even if we end up regretting it.

Neither of us are into the nightlife at all - it will be purely sight seeing, food/drink (not too excited for the food though haha), exploring, hiking, museums, etc.

I'm having lunch next week with a coworker who is from Hungary and visits central Europe regularly so hopefully I can learn a bit more there too. She suggested taking a boat down the Danube from Budapest to Vienna(or vise versa I don't remember). I imagine that takes longer but might be worth it for the views?

Probably will avoid Slovakia even though it's close, and use that time for Salzberg or Krakow. I think we want to spend day or two in London in before going home too.

And yeah I expect a lot of the general culture and architecture to be similar - that's a good point though. I am hoping we don't get to the point where "if you've seen one you've seen them all" and get bored. I know when we were in Japan, we got bored of Shrines pretty quick, but there was just so much other stuff to do it didn't matter.

Salt Mines and Auschwitz look like worthwhile places to visit for sure if we make it up there - I will definitely look into that. Is Poland as safe as the other countries?

EDIT: Looks like the train ride from Krakow to Prague is ~7hours. That's probably a no-go for us, and nothing flies direct from Krakow --> Prague which makes it more of a pain.

EDIT2: Did any of you get a Pocket WiFi? After using one in Japan it is my new favorite thing for travel, and without it we would have been so screwed it's not even funny. Is there a go-to carrier in Europe for something similar with unlimited data and no throttling?

[dj_patm]

There should be flights to Krakow from Prague or Budapest, there were before I know that. Might just be a seasonal thing I guess. Personally I find it more interesting than Prague, but I get why you'd want to do Prague over Krakow.

Krakow is perfectly safe. It's a major tourist hub and there's also a university directly adjacent to the old town so its full of liberal young people. Only thing about Krakow that could be sketchy is the soccer hooliganism but if you choose to go to a match, so long as you don't start anything you would have nothing to worry about. Even more so if you're not going clubbing or anything like that. I go to Poland every couple years and go out partying multiple times every trip and have never once seen any fights or anything.

Only thing I would say, and this goes for all of you Europe, is watch your shit. Europeans love their crimes of opportunity. Especially if you're going to be travelling by train a lot. I'd splurge for a private cabin where available. Just alleviates so much stress. Nothing worse than being on a train full of rowdy drunks and wanting to sleep but you have to take turns cause you have to keep an eye on your stuff.

Also, being white helps.... lol.

[Kobe]

I mean, the prices are reasonable, you head over to Menza, which is one of the nicer resturants in Budapest and eat a main course for $11CAD (http://www.menzaetterem.hu/english.php)

Getting into the Szechenyl Baths is expensive, and prob the most expensive thing at around $28-29CAD which is still an experience, you walk to fishermans bastion after 6pm and it's free to walk up the wall, which is also the best time to go (Before sunset 20-30min to arrive)

you head over to a store your getting chicken and groceries for 80% less than Canada.. https://bevasarlas.tesco.hu/groceries/ it costs about $4 for them to deliever it.

If you go down Vaci Utca to like Hard Rock your going to be paying $9 a beer and food will be $30 for a meal but it's not something I recommend it's a tourist trap.. There was a resturant on Dob Utca, that was around $3-$4 for a large, good meal, I would regularly good to (Authentic Hungarian Food)

If you want to check out the Opera get the cheapest ticket for 150HUF (Under $1cad) and walk around you don't even need to watch the Opera... The House of Terror is $10CAD and it's ALWAYS closed on Monday, always has always will be don't remember why but some reasoning behind it..

If you head out on the correct days to the Bars your paying (Morrisions) about $2.50cad for Cover + 3 500ml beers)

Overall it's really cheap, if you want a steak house like KNRDY, La Pampa, you will def be paying closer to Calgary prices.. I really do not think that is expensive..


But ya Bratislava can be a day trip but your also short on time so it might be better to avoid it? Unless you want to get another city on the bucket list..


Sim cards in Europe are cheap, there was 1 Sim that had data all around Europe (Data is pennies) I don't remember the name of the company right now. I was with Vodafone it might even be them. Just pick up a sim card, put some data on it and you're good to go. With that said most if not all the restaurants had Wi-fi in them as well..


Even if you are not into nightlife to check out Szimpla in Budapest, it's a ruin bar will be packed with tourists but it's really super cool looking, bring a black marker and put your name on the wall somewhere..


Just a heads up, the cheap airlines use a lot of smaller airports so make sure when booking you have the correct airport and it's the same one or you have enough time to get to the other airport, I had this problem in Sweden, was a plan in the ass..


Edit: Was in Budapest for two years, never felt unsafe, and never felt unsafe in Krakow as well the few times I've gone to visit, if you go into the wrong districts you might get yourself in trouble just use some common sense. It's like heading into forest lawn at Midnight in Calgary...

[dj_patm]

Just follow the rule of thumb that tourists should stay out of the residential areas in Europe. It's really the only place where you could run into trouble and there is nothing to see there. Most of the people that live in Central Europe can't actually afford to eat out regularly so "hidden gems" for locals aren't really a thing. When locals go out, they go to the same area where the tourists are.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Thanks guys. That all sounds awesome in Budapest, and very cheap. Decent food and beer is a big part of our typical travel enjoyment. I read the Czech Republic has the highest beer consumption per capita haha - so I expect some good beers there.

Definitely want to hit up a Turkish bath in Budapest for a soak, steam, and a massage or whatever it is people do there haha (will have to pass on the happy ending unfortunately).

I think we are going to forget Krakow (GF has no interest in things like Auschwitz anyway), not spend any time in London, and explore Austria a bit more along with obviously Prague and Budapest. I think we'll be keeping it to those 3 countries unless we do a day trip somewhere else. Slovenia looks gorgeous, not sure if it's too far or not.

We won't have a car, but definitely want to check out Salzberg and maybe Hallstatt? Or something more in the Alps as well - whatever is easy to get to by train I guess.

Are Euros accepted everywhere? Or am I going to need Euros, Koruna, and HUF? Was hoping to not have to carry around a bunch of different cash but might be unavoidable. How is credit card acceptance? Hoping to use the Amazon Visa as often as possible instead of cash.

I haven't found any unlimited data SIM cards yet, but I would need to buy it at the airport. I found this pocket WiFi for $8.90Eur/day for unlimited data which seemed pretty good, and works in all the countries we need. I think Pocket WiFi will be better because then I don't have to get two SIM cards (GF will need one too and her phone is locked):

http://hippocketwifi.com/en/how-to-rent/#prices

$160 Euro is pretty expensive for that, but it might still be worth it as I haven't found anything better yet. We use data continuously while traveling, google maps everywhere even for walking, entertainment on trains, etc.

EDIT: Is it easy to find Tokaj dessert wine everywhere? That stuff is phenomenal.

[Waldi]

Krakow is major party town and lots of history, comparable to Budapest or Prague, It is definitely more happening than Salzberg. Strongly recommend stop in Krakow as someone suggested, start there and go south, Prague is only couple of hours by train or bus.

[Kobe]

Id say
1. Budapest favorite
2. Krakow (close second)
3. Prague (Big Leap)
4. Vienna (Right behind Prague)

In order of how I like the cities..

Your G/f is def going to miss out checking out Krakow...

[Waldi]

you can get from Krakow to Prague for $15.00 via train.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Booked our flights on the weekend. 19 days in October, including arrival and departure days.

Excluding all night life and Auschwitz (or similar) would Krakow still be one of your favorites? I feel like we enjoy very different vacations haha - so I am not sure we would like it as much. Google also tells me Prague to Krakow is over 7 hours and we don't want to do any super long train rides. Could look at flying though if it wasn't going to end up taking just as long dealing with the airports. I really appreciate the suggestions, but I suspect we would go to Slovenia over Krakow if we added a third country.

There looks like there is a ridiculous amount of stuff to do in Budapest, I think we will stay there the longest. We will probably do a wine/chocolate tour of some kind. Anywhere in particular you would recommend we stay? I assume somewhere central and by a train station?

Are there any kinds of transit passes we can buy or do we buy every individual ticket?

[Kobe]

So with Krakow - you have the "Wawel"

http://www.wawel.krakow.pl/en/

It's alright def famous, looks cool, dont remember how much it costed i think there was a few diff things in it to do... (It's right down town)

The recently started something under the rynek in krakow (Google shows 2010) https://www.inyourpocket.com/krakow/...rground_72197v Suppose to be really cool..

The food is incredible as well if you go you want to stay around the Main Rynek "Square" in Krakow, I've only stayed at hostels but AirBNB best option (I stayed at greg an toms)

Can obv do the salt mines in krakow (I was young when I did this, don't really remember much tbh)

Also check out the jewish district (super cool)

You really don't need to go out in Krakow at night to have a good time, IMO it's not why myself and others recommended it..

I'm not one for seeing things, been to a bunch of castles not a big fan, but going and walking around Auschwitz is extremely moving and just nothing you will ever forget, I still remember walking into the Gas chambers and the smell of death or how you could see thousands of pairs of shoes behind a glass.. it's just something else and I think everyone should see it, words can't explain it, i'm sure everyone who has been there will say the same thing..

I know your g/f doesn't want to go to Krakow for whatever reasons, I'd understand if she didn't want to go to Warsaw, (Warsaw is a dump IMO or some smaller towns) but Krakow is super cool. If I was recommending Nightlife I would of said Budapest as it will be 50x more bumping than Krakow nightly.(Ask DavidI He couldn't make it home like 3 times, lost a cell phone and doesn't remember his first time in Budapest )



Regarding Budapest, yah it has a ton to do, the Main districts are 5,6,7.. The Metro for all the stops is at Deak Ter, you have St. Stephens around there, so when booking an AirBNB try to stay around Kiraly utca all the way to Rakoczui Utca. and up to Erzebeth krt or Terez krt..
Made a map where the best place to stay is -

Try to not really go past Rakoczi Utca, it gets a little ghetto, but if ur on the main road By Oktokgan (Terez krt/Erzebeth) you're also fine..

I'd say the best road with Airbnbs will be on Kiraly utca. It's prob the best spot to be.

If you go into district 5 closer to the Danube it's also very safe (Vaci Utca is down there which is over priced and very touristy)

Andrassy Utca is where all the high end stores like LV and Gucci are and the Opera is located there as well...really nice road as well..

To get to Deak Ter from the airport you take a bus (only bus running) to the end and take the metro and it will drop you off at Deak Ter (Takes about 40-45mins) It's really worth it, super easy to do as well..

DO NOT GET IN A CAB WITHOUT CALLING AHEAD in budapest, you will get ripped off, 95% of the time..Cab companies speak English, so your OK calling them...

If u go up on Andrassy via the Metro (Yellow I think?) you go 2 hero square and the main baths.. Behind the river is gallert hill and Fishermans Bastion (Highly Highly Highly! Recommend walking over here BEFORE sunset - will take about 45mins from downtown, walk across the bridge and enjoy the views before and after sunset, this was prob the best part of Budapest for everyone that I took. You can take me later.. (It's free to go up the wall at that time too)


Doesn't really matter where you stay in that area, but it's the most central.. Being by Deak Ter is super prime!


Metro is pretty good, you can buy 10 tickets for 3,000HUF ($15) or I think they sell like 1 or 2 day passes. If i remember correctly 1 was 350HUF... I always just bought in groups of 10.
Also do the free walking tour In Budapest, highly recommend it's obv free and most people tip around 1,000HUF After (http://www.triptobudapest.hu/tours/the-original-tour/)


Take the Tram 2 on the Danube as well to the market (people really enjoy it, i found it boring AF but it's super famous) and then the other way to the parliament, walk back and check out the shoes on the danube..

Budapest is nice because everything is walking distance and the views are unreal..

Regarding wine tour in budapest, I have no idea never did one, but Can pretty much answer every other question you have, on what to see and avoid, just write in here..

Edit: Damn google knows me well, we went to the La Pampa Steakhouse a bunch and Jack Doyles Irish Pub, and Szimpla Kert..

Walk down Jozef Attlia Utca as well, really nice, and a super cool budapest sign, ends at a big hotel with a Canada flag on it (Forget which hotel) And the chain bridge is right there... (Fun Fact: Chain bridge was the first bridge to join Buda and pest - Budapest is divided into 2 parts obv (Buda and Pest) Dont stay on the Buda Side (Not that its not safe, just not much to do there..)

Also if/when you go to Szimpla to check it out, try to find our markings

It might be behind a picture now (They change it up all the time, Upstairs to the right

Or this Canada one, But I'm pretty sure we weren't suppose to write on the tables

[davidI]

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(Ask DavidI He couldn't make it home like 3 times, lost a cell phone and doesn't remember his first time in Budapest )

I never lost a phone but you're right that I didn't make it home several times...and not in a giggity giggity kind of way!

Watch out for the Plinka!

[Kobe]

Btw - While in budapest there was a great Duck resturant we used to frequent.
It's called Taiwan Etterem.. Seriously some of the best duck ever..

Some fun CCR nights as well on the bill



Ahh missing budapest now after writing that up for you...