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Thread: Used Sony A7R II or new Sony A7R III

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    Default Used Sony A7R II or new Sony A7R III

    My wife is looking to make the leap to full frame sensors and is really leaning towards the Sony lineup. I understand the new R3`s are on the way next month so i`m hoping to get some opinions. We`re torn between getting a used R2 (maybe $2500) or a new R3 ($3800 + GST). Speaking from a financial point of view the dollar value lost in selling a one generation old R2 after 2 years of use is only 20% of MSRP so buying a R3 i would assume would hold it`s value better in the case of liquidation? or would it be a smarter bet to buy a used R2 and spend the reminder on lens(s)?

    Thanks in advance

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    A better question is what features does your wife need on the new one that the old one doesn't have or do as well?

    I'm still using the original A7 and every time I think I might want to upgrade, I look at the specs of the newer models and I'm reminded they add nothing for me that justifies spending the money.

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    The first thing I would do is make sure mirrorless is really for you, especially large sensor mirrorless. With full frame, you aren't really saving any size/weight unless you go with pancake lenses, battery life is poor, (in comparison), lens selection is extremely limited (and more expensive) and ergonomics aren't great (more subjective). Autofocus for moving subjects continues to suffer because the camera forego's the CDAF confirmation at the end of the PDAF cycle in the interest of speed when using continuous AF, so I don't know if your wife plans to shoot a lot of moving subjects or not but AF lags behind that of the newest DSLRs. There are also geometry issues with on sensor PDAF and longer lenses if you think some of those may be in your future. If file size is a concern, Sony does not have an option to shoot lossless compressed RAWs, so you are looking at 80-90MB files without reducing quality (the lower quality files are also required to realize advertised specs of the camera such as FPS and buffer). If you're worried about resale, Sony also has a fairly aggressive refresh cycle on their cameras which does not help in that department. I very regularly hear from people who tried to go FF mirrorless and are now back to a DSLR, so just really make sure it's right for you before taking the plunge - they have their advantages but make sure they are in the areas important to your wife.

    What does she shoot? What is her total budget including lenses? What lenses is she hoping to get?

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    Huge thanks for the insight. I was only tasked with researching the camera even though i have little experience in actual photography itself. Interesting fact you mentioned about Sony`s aggressive life cycle refreshes; the time lapse between the R2 and R3 are two years, isn`t that long enough for a refresh? How long does Nikon or Cannon keep a relevant body on the market for?

    and yes, Sony lenses are crazy expensive, an equivalent lens from Nikon or Cannon i find to be ~$500 more nevermind the third party options available.

    She really enjoys landscape photography but is looking into portrait photography lately. we were looking at the 85mm f1.8 and the 24-70 f4, both of which we plan to buy used.

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    Does anyone have experience with using Cannon lenses with the A7? i`ve read so many mixed reviews - some say the autofocus is almost as good, some say it`s unusable.

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    if you want to use Canon EF lenses on the Sony A7 series, then you're better going with at least the A7RII.

    which Sony camera to go, A7 are going from 700-1000$, A7II around 1400$, A7RII around 2200-2500$

    IMO there's no value jumping to A7RIII at this point, only thing I like about it is bigger battery life and the joystick but not a deal breaker for me either.

    spend the money on lenses.
    i foresee the price of the 24-70 f4 lens going down even more once the 24-105 f4 is out. if you decide on getting the 24-70, get it used as you can get it for about 70% of the retail price.
    the FE 85mm 1.8 is good, so is the FE 55mm 1.8.

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    sorry, i meant to say the a7 series which i really meant to imply the R2. my bad.

    the R3 from my reading really sound like the tits compared to the last generation. better/faster autofocus, more autofocus points, battery, dual memory and better low light performance.

    so far i've been only looking on Kijiji for used gear, im not familiar with photography forums, where can i look for those kinda prices you mentioned?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KISS_ME View Post
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    sorry, i meant to say the a7 series which i really meant to imply the R2. my bad.

    the R3 from my reading really sound like the tits compared to the last generation. better/faster autofocus, more autofocus points, battery, dual memory and better low light performance.

    so far i've been only looking on Kijiji for used gear, im not familiar with photography forums, where can i look for those kinda prices you mentioned?

    People are still shooting with the old A7, A7R and A7RII, just because the RIII is out doesn't mean the previous ones are junk.
    Question is whether the new features are important and benefits the user, your wife in this case to warrant the purchase.

    The old ones are still pretty viable, my go to portrait camera is still a 2005 Canon 5D and 100mm lens haha.

    I was actually planning on getting an A7 again but just couldn't let a good deal pass on a used A7RII and went for that instead, and as I prefer shooting with primes, I have 21mm, 35mm and 55mm.

    Other than kijiji, there are lots of use photography groups on facebook, fredmiranda.com is another popular one but its mostly US.

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    Huge thanks. i'll stalk out the forums.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KISS_ME View Post
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    Huge thanks for the insight. I was only tasked with researching the camera even though i have little experience in actual photography itself. Interesting fact you mentioned about Sony`s aggressive life cycle refreshes; the time lapse between the R2 and R3 are two years, isn`t that long enough for a refresh? How long does Nikon or Cannon keep a relevant body on the market for?

    and yes, Sony lenses are crazy expensive, an equivalent lens from Nikon or Cannon i find to be ~$500 more nevermind the third party options available.

    She really enjoys landscape photography but is looking into portrait photography lately. we were looking at the 85mm f1.8 and the 24-70 f4, both of which we plan to buy used.
    Nikon and Canon's major refresh cycle is typically 4 years and can be longer depending on the specific model. Occasionally they will do a more minor incremental refresh after 2 years but that is not consistent.

    What Sony is famous for is releasing a mind-blowing spec sheet but with a laundry list of performance caveats - a body like the $6000 A9 is a prime example of this. I have never seen so many footnotes, conditions, and caveats on a camera's performance in my life.

    I'm not sure if she is willing to entertain just getting a DSLR instead, but she will have far greater lens selection and can probably save a fair chunk of money. I am also not a fan of using adapters - I don't know why anyone would want to do that if they were starting from scratch (i.e. did not have a large collection of existing lenses that they didn't want to sell but wanted to switch bodies). The experience is always better with native lenses.

    For a size comparison, here is an example with the 85/1.8 and also 24-70/4, both of which are enormous on Sony making the size/weight difference between the two almost a wash. At the end of the day, a camera has to be at least a certain size to have good ergonomics, house the huge FF sensor, carry a decent sized battery, and balance with lenses. There are other lens combinations that actually make the mirrorless larger and heavier than the equivalent DSLR combination but this is what you mentioned earlier:

    http://j.mp/2gVjFQK

    http://j.mp/2xM980W

    I guess I just don't see any reason based on the information given so far why she would go down the mirrorless road. She's just going to be spending more for less performance and far fewer lens options or fiddling with adapters. As I said earlier, I can't tell you how many people I see try out full frame mirrorless and just end up losing more money switching back. If there were some specific reasons she had for wanting to go mirrorless then that's great (I.e. wanting top notch video performance), but so far I don't see any reason to.

    The biggest issue I have with mirrorless at the moment is that even the very best EVF's are horrible. They are a blob of noise in low light, almost all of them have noticeable lag with fast subjects, and are useless in high contrast scenarios because you are trading the dynamic range of your eyeball for a tiny, cheap LCD screen (it can only show you the bright or dark area of the scene - not both).
    Last edited by Mitsu3000gt; 11-01-2017 at 02:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D'z Nutz View Post
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    A better question is what features does your wife need on the new one that the old one doesn't have or do as well?

    I'm still using the original A7 and every time I think I might want to upgrade, I look at the specs of the newer models and I'm reminded they add nothing for me that justifies spending the money.
    This is the truth. Get a used original A7 (not the R) and a few of the cheaper Sony lenses (used) and start with those (28/2, 55/1.8, 85/1.8) . A perfectly capable camera and a good way to save a few thousand dollars right off the get go. Bodies depreciate like a crazy, lenses hold their value.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blitz View Post
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    This is the truth. Get a used original A7 (not the R) and a few of the cheaper Sony lenses (used) and start with those (28/2, 55/1.8, 85/1.8) . A perfectly capable camera and a good way to save a few thousand dollars right off the get go. Bodies depreciate like a crazy, lenses hold their value.
    This. Had the 28 f2 and 55 1.8 on an A7, recently just sold the 28 f2 for a Sigma 35 1.4 Art with an adapter and I'm enjoying it so far. The autofocus isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be with an adapter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by taemo View Post
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    People are still shooting with the old A7, A7R and A7RII, just because the RIII is out doesn't mean the previous ones are junk.
    Question is whether the new features are important and benefits the user, your wife in this case to warrant the purchase.
    Absolutely this.

    People are way too quick to dismiss the camera they've been happily using for the last 2-3 years only to curb stomp it when something new comes out - it's a huge problem with online photography forums. It's especially bad in the photography world where phrases like "day and night difference" is used ad nauseam. The only reason to upgrade is for obvious reasons, something that has always bugged you as a user is rectified in the latest revision. You want to print big and the new camera offers more MPs? Great. Faster AF because you often shoot fast-moving objects? Great. You shoot a lot at shows and concerts and more ISO will make a difference to you and your client? Great.

    But most people get tunnel-visioned into looking and comparing specs, something is 0.2 better than before, and it's a fucking jungle to make any sense of so I empathize with anyone new to this hobby! I've been away from the photography forums for awhile because I'm much less gear-driven than I have been before. Lenses are also getting to ridiculous prices which contributes to my lack of energy towards gear these days (which makes me sad I'm not a millionaire).

    A better camera doesn't make you a better photographer, plain and simple. It might make you go out and shoot more which is what everyone needs to do to get better and develop a style of their own. This is art afterall!

    Bottom line: if you want the latest and greatest and don't care about how much it costs then go for it, you won't be disappointed. If you're more inclined to look at used equipment because the value aspect is there, you also won't be disappointed.
    Ultracrepidarian

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    I'm still using two systems. Nikon and Sony. Depending on the situation I use one over the other. When I go help out with my friend's events, I take my Nikon. Everything else I take the Sony. Haven't upgraded the bodies for quite a few years already. So from my standpoint, my D3S focuses a lot faster than my A7. Hence faster AF @ 12 MP is better for events than unreliable AF @ 24 MP. The A7 can't really keep up with my kids either. But I'm not going to lug around that big Nikon all the time.

    Depending on your needs, the mark I A7 line might be good enough. They added IBIS for the mark II, and some AF improvement especially on the 7R. AF E-mount adapter to Canon mount seems to work alright with both mark I and mark II bodies. AF E-mount to Nikon mount kind of works for mark II bodies and not really for mark I bodies.

    One more thing, don't buy the FE50f1.8 if your budget allows. Out of all the Sony lens I have, that's has got to be the slowest in AF speed. Feels like it is slower (but probably not) than my minolta 50f1.4 with the LAEA4 adapter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KISS_ME View Post
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    We`re torn between getting a used R2 (maybe $2500) or a new R3 ($3800 + GST)
    btw, R3 for 3800 + GST, where?

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