Sleds, sleds sleds... mountain sleds?

[r3ccOs]

I used to sled back in the old days on a old 97 polaris 800 on a 144 track in Manitoba... never really venturing out here or into BC

I'm thinking of getting back into sledding and the whole mountain think looks cool... and its incredible how far sleds have come. Pricy but man the power and technology is quite impressive.

I heard Artic Kitty has gone to Yammi motors from Zuki, and Polaris is mostly 4 stroke turbo's in their RMK series, while BRP kinda went the other way back to the etec Rotax 2 strokers with the new 850...

Between the summit, M series and RMK... it appears there are differences but all platforms are good

Should I go try before I buy, or heck just rent??? I rode my buddy who owns both an M1100 (3 cyl 4stroke tuned to 360 hp) and a Summit 850 and both were amazing, with the M1100 being stupid fast... not able to keep the ski's down under 50mph and the Summit feeling very nimble even with a 163 track

also track length, What's necessary? Almost everyone seems to have HUGE sleds, but I thought the old 15x was already a long sled?

[mzdspd]

Definitely some really amazing sleds out there. I guess it depends what your main goal with it is..

After owning a sled, I think I would just rent one. That way you get a newer sled every time you ride and you can try out different options. If you go enough, then definitely buy one.

[ercchry]

Take an avalanche course... so many deaths every year

[e31]

Do you have a group to ride with already? These people may be responsible for your life.

Secondly, do they ride snowmobiles or snowbikes. From firsthand experience they are so drastically different that it's not much fun to mix them.

Thirdly, snowbike kits available by comparison make even the lightest 800 feel like driving a school bus. Besides making a dirtbike a truly 4 season machine, it's amazing how much terrain has opened up because of this new method of travel.

[blubs]

As someone who gets out 20+ times a year, the best thing you can do is rent one with a guide for the first time. In all honesty the newest chassis make such a difference in you having a fun day out in the mountains. If you aren't sure what you want, or not even sure that you will be going out enough, it will end up being significantly cheaper to rent them.

Most new sleds end up being ~16k by the time you are all said and done, and even if you put on zero kms, you are going to loose 4-5k easily in the first year. Thats a lot of rentals, and even more so when you think that you dont have to maintain it, tow it out there etc. Not trying to stray you away from getting into the amazing sport, but the learning curve of mountain riding is extremely steep and doing it this way normally leads to a better experience.

For an engine a 800/850CC 2 stroke is what 90% of the mountain rides. It really is the best balance between horsepower, and being easy to get unstuck etc.

For track length, if you are over 160lbs, go with a 16x" track. With the longer tracks you gain the ability to go quite a bit slower in tricky sections, and they do climb quite a bit easier than the 15x" range. As a lighter rider I really like my 153, but I do notice that I have to carry quite a bit more speed than some of my other riding groups, especially in the trees.

Lastly - do some avalanche training, and get the gear. Our group wont even allow anyone to come out that hasnt done this. You gotta remember its not saving you that we are worried about, its you being knowledgable enough to save my ass if it ever happened. Having a tight knit group is key.

E31 is right in the respect of snowbikes kits though. They really are amazing, and have a much shorter learning curve. After riding a YETI kit last year for an hour I was able to go in area's that took me years to be comfortable enough to get a sled into. That being said, if you dont have friends who are also on them it can be a bit annoying. The terrain that is fun on a snowbike, just isn't the same as a sled.

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[r3ccOs]

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As someone who gets out 20+ times a year, the best thing you can do is rent one with a guide for the first time. In all honesty the newest chassis make such a difference in you having a fun day out in the mountains. If you aren't sure what you want, or not even sure that you will be going out enough, it will end up being significantly cheaper to rent them.

Most new sleds end up being ~16k by the time you are all said and done, and even if you put on zero kms, you are going to loose 4-5k easily in the first year. Thats a lot of rentals, and even more so when you think that you dont have to maintain it, tow it out there etc. Not trying to stray you away from getting into the amazing sport, but the learning curve of mountain riding is extremely steep and doing it this way normally leads to a better experience.

For an engine a 800/850CC 2 stroke is what 90% of the mountain rides. It really is the best balance between horsepower, and being easy to get unstuck etc.

For track length, if you are over 160lbs, go with a 16x" track. With the longer tracks you gain the ability to go quite a bit slower in tricky sections, and they do climb quite a bit easier than the 15x" range. As a lighter rider I really like my 153, but I do notice that I have to carry quite a bit more speed than some of my other riding groups, especially in the trees.

Lastly - do some avalanche training, and get the gear. Our group wont even allow anyone to come out that hasnt done this. You gotta remember its not saving you that we are worried about, its you being knowledgable enough to save my ass if it ever happened. Having a tight knit group is key.

E31 is right in the respect of snowbikes kits though. They really are amazing, and have a much shorter learning curve. After riding a YETI kit last year for an hour I was able to go in area's that took me years to be comfortable enough to get a sled into. That being said, if you dont have friends who are also on them it can be a bit annoying. The terrain that is fun on a snowbike, just isn't the same as a sled.

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I think you may be right about timber sleds and is intriguing except for the lack of power and having to use a clutch while riding on stuff that just isn't solid...

Also another shortcoming, though a sled may feel like a bus in comparison, is the comfort when actually doing single track trail riding... well that's all I heard

[blubs]

I didnt find the clutch isnt too big of an issue. If you are really worried about it you can always put a Recluse in... If I had my way it would be a snowbike for really early season, a sled for 90% of the season, and a snowbike to end it again. A sled is just much better in deep terrain, Nothing better then her sitting at 8k rpm for a few minutes as you pull a perfect sidehill out of a creek bed.

I wouldn't expect you to think a sled feels like a bus, especially with the new chassis, they are incredibly agile. Hell the doo 850 feels almost too easy to lay over now, and keep in mind im 5'5 and 125 lbs.... If I can man handle one anyone should be able to. Just learn a counter steer and you will be able to take it wherever you please. Just look at some of the stuff Burandt and those guys are doing with them.... They are pretty easy to handle around.

Also finding people to sled with is hard enough, let alone trying to find people to snowbike with.

Either way, go test ride some of the new 2 strokes. You will be amazed at how far they have come in the last few years with EFI keeping them always running perfect. Unless you are into big climbs, very few people run 4 strokes now. Just too hard to ride for a full day.

[e31]

I wouldn't call it "lack of power", because you really cannot compare a sled to a snowbike. The agility/weight/power combinations are so vastly different between the two that I find there's almost no common ground (other than the snow below you). It is something you'll just have to eventually experience for yourself. Sleds are approaching F1 level performance, in a consumer product
As an aside, coming from the flat-lands you'll discover that mountain sledding is a lot more strenuous than a poker-run. You will be using your shovel.

[13TTFX4]

I would also advocate that you take at minimum your AST1 but also invest in the proper avalanche gear. Many guys go drop $16,000 on a sled only to skimp on the gear that may save your life one day. As for what to look for in a sled all the sleds are so capable now so for the first one I would try to get something similar to the guys you will ride with so that if something goes wrong or you need help setting it up to your ride style they will know how to help you. I personally just picked up a demo 2016 RMK 800 155" last year after riding a 600 summit 146" for the last 6 years and am super happy.

As far as track length the longer you go the more forgiving it will be in the deep powder which is nice for a beginner but some find it more fun to ride shorter sleds and easier for jumps.

at the end of the day there is nothing better than sledding in the mountains.

[HiTempguy1]

You really don't NEED an 800.

The 600 sleds with a 144 track or larger are perfectly fine. Having been snowmobiling in the mountains (very casually, I'm not hardcore by any stretch of the imagination) since about 2004, you really don't need much sled to have a blast. Modern sleds are lighter, more powerful, and have more traction.

Arctic Cat is actually having a clearout right now, $8k out the door for 163" 600cc sleds :o

[mzdspd]

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You really don't NEED an 800.

The 600 sleds with a 144 track or larger are perfectly fine. Having been snowmobiling in the mountains (very casually, I'm not hardcore by any stretch of the imagination) since about 2004, you really don't need much sled to have a blast. Modern sleds are lighter, more powerful, and have more traction.

Arctic Cat is actually having a clearout right now, $8k out the door for 163" 600cc sleds :o

You don't need a 800 but it sure is nice... Last time I was out with my 600 with a 144 (BRP), my friend had his RMK800 and it was just so much easier and more enjoyable to ride. The 600 would rev so high to keep up in the deep snow whereas the 800 just felt more natural and controlled.

But regardless, I would recommend to the OP that he rents a 600,800 and also 144 and 163 tracks to see which setup he prefers.

[blubs]

As much as I have seen very talented riders be able to keep up with a 600 I don't recommend it, unless its for a younger rider. They just don't have enough torque on the low end to be able to boondock nicely.

What ends up happening is newer riders will just blame everything on "well I should have bought an 800 etc". Also nice to know that everyone is on the same thing, if you end up dropping into an area and everyone else can get out but you I think you would be pretty mad at yourself. Not saying you couldn't track poach and get out but still.

Also trying to sell a 600 is tough, not many people want them... Which is why even the dealers are trying to blow them out. Just get an 800 and be done with it. For track length though, I wouldn't recommend much smaller than a 154 unless you want to jump it constantly. You will appreciate the longer track.

[13TTFX4]

The 600 or 800 argument can be a tough one to navigate there is definitely merit to learning on a 600 as you really need to learn the fundamentals such as carrying speed and picking proper lines. On the other hand if you find yourself going often you will be wanting to trade up sooner than later and you can have a tough time selling the 600.

Looking at the market right now it appears the best deals are on a couple year old leftover cats which are not a bad way to enter the sled game as they are reliable and already depreciated.

[cam_wmh]

For your first few times, rent a sled, and get a guide. Take your AVY1 at minimum, and buy all your Avy gear.

[spikerS]

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For your first few times, rent a sled, and get a guide. Take your AVY1 at minimum, and buy all your Avy gear.

I have been considering going the sled route as well, but, I have never rode a sled before. Are there any repuatable guides out there that are willing to teach complete newbs? I mean, I have ran quads lots, lots of 4 wheeling in trucks, etc...but never a sled...

What kind of sleds are good for a big guy like myself too?

[cam_wmh]

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I have been considering going the sled route as well, but, I have never rode a sled before. Are there any repuatable guides out there that are willing to teach complete newbs? I mean, I have ran quads lots, lots of 4 wheeling in trucks, etc...but never a sled...

What kind of sleds are good for a big guy like myself too?

Mountain? 800. Minimum. I'm 6'2, 200. No chance would I do less.

I recommend Golden, as it's the closest, most common, nearby mountain sled hostpot. There are 3 main sled areas within the Golden Sled Club. Quartz Creek (about 10 minutes NW of the weigh scales), Silent Pass, which is on the south end of Golden near Nicholson. Finally, there's Gorman Lake, which is just west of town across the bridge, near the golf course. It can be accessed by a utility trial, from the ski hill, where you'll find Rocky Mountain Riders.

Gorman has alot of advanced features, so perhaps give RMR a ring first, and ask about if the guide will take you into the alpine or not. That's the only rental location I know of, in such an alpine accessible location.

Do you snowboard? Some real good trees in there too.

[spikerS]

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Mountain? 800. Minimum. I'm 6'2, 200. No chance would I do less.

I recommend Golden, as it's the closest, most common, nearby mountain sled hostpot. There are 3 main sled areas within the Golden Sled Club. Quartz Creek (about 10 minutes NW of the weigh scales), Silent Pass, which is on the south end of Golden near Nicholson. Finally, there's Gorman Lake, which is just west of town across the bridge, near the golf course. It can be accessed by a utility trial, from the ski hill, where you'll find Rocky Mountain Riders.

Gorman has alot of advanced features, so perhaps give RMR a ring first, and ask about if the guide will take you into the alpine or not. That's the only rental location I know of, in such an alpine accessible location.

Do you snowboard? Some real good trees in there too.

Thanks! I will look into it. I am 6'4" and like 280, so I know I will need a bigger sled.

I don't think I am that interested in highmarking, looks hella fun, but, I think doing some fun trails is more up my alley and bringing the kids with me. I will check out RMR, off to flex my google-fu!

[cam_wmh]

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Thanks! I will look into it. I am 6'4" and like 280, so I know I will need a bigger sled.

I don't think I am that interested in highmarking, looks hella fun, but, I think doing some fun trails is more up my alley and bringing the kids with me. I will check out RMR, off to flex my google-fu!

Im not referring to high marking, I’m saying getting into the sought after alpine at Gorman requires maneuvering some advanced features.

[blubs]

Honestly the best place to learn and to bring families is Quartz Creek. Its a super short trail (~7km if I remember right) and most of the terrain is pretty forgiving. Quartz has lots of nice meadows, large bowls, and some easy pulls to get you comfortable on the sled. Only downside is because of this it can be busy, but that typically isn't a big deal when you are starting... You won't be able to crush too many areas that fast when you are getting stuck haha. Theres many other areas out there that you can get into that don't give you much of an option in regards to getting out.... Basically force you to pull a big climb, make a sidehill etc or don't get out etc...

If you are still bent on buying a sled keep this in mind:

07-2010 - Arctic Cat M8 - These were the sleds to buy for the time.... Best engine by far, chassis is manageable... You will still be BEAT by the end of the day in comparison to the new machines though.
2011 - 2012 Doo XP ETEC 800's - The 800 etec is the engine you want, stay away from the PTEK... They like to blow up after 2500kms. Etec will last you 5-6000 pretty easily.
2012 - 2013 - Polaris Pro RMK's with the belt drive were pretty figured out by now, good solid sled that handles very well if you are an aggressive rider.
2013-2016 Doo XM Chassis - What lots of the mountain rides still, very reliable machines, TMotion suspension basically makes the sled sidehill for you. They are incredibly easy to ride.... Some people with many years experience on them lock out the Tmotion to get a better feel..
2016- 2017 - Polaris AXYS - As much as I would love to say the Doo 850 is the way to go (being I ride doo's) theres a few issues on the 2017s that need fixing. You can pick up a good leftover AXYS for quite a bit less then the Ski Doo, and the AXYS chassis is impressive.

You will notice no Cat's from 2012 - 2016ish.... Not trying to say the M8000 chassis isn't worth having... great jumping sled, but just really struggled with trenching problems and didn't seem to do that well in the trees. They also make most of their power extremely high up in the rev range, which makes them tough to ride for most.

Hopefully Doo will fix a few of the reliability issues on the 850 for 2018 and we can have a great new chassis that won't leave us in the mountains... But the 2018 Cat is apparently going to be a good ride as well... Seems like they have finally figured out the chassis.

Just keep in mind that none of these sleds are good at "trail riding"... Honestly most of them are pretty miserable at it. Trail sleds have super wide ski stance's for stability... Mountain sleds are narrow for sidehilling..

[r3ccOs]

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Honestly the best place to learn and to bring families is Quartz Creek. Its a super short trail (~7km if I remember right) and most of the terrain is pretty forgiving. Quartz has lots of nice meadows, large bowls, and some easy pulls to get you comfortable on the sled. Only downside is because of this it can be busy, but that typically isn't a big deal when you are starting... You won't be able to crush too many areas that fast when you are getting stuck haha. Theres many other areas out there that you can get into that don't give you much of an option in regards to getting out.... Basically force you to pull a big climb, make a sidehill etc or don't get out etc...

If you are still bent on buying a sled keep this in mind:

07-2010 - Arctic Cat M8 - These were the sleds to buy for the time.... Best engine by far, chassis is manageable... You will still be BEAT by the end of the day in comparison to the new machines though.
2011 - 2012 Doo XP ETEC 800's - The 800 etec is the engine you want, stay away from the PTEK... They like to blow up after 2500kms. Etec will last you 5-6000 pretty easily.
2012 - 2013 - Polaris Pro RMK's with the belt drive were pretty figured out by now, good solid sled that handles very well if you are an aggressive rider.
2013-2016 Doo XM Chassis - What lots of the mountain rides still, very reliable machines, TMotion suspension basically makes the sled sidehill for you. They are incredibly easy to ride.... Some people with many years experience on them lock out the Tmotion to get a better feel..
2016- 2017 - Polaris AXYS - As much as I would love to say the Doo 850 is the way to go (being I ride doo's) theres a few issues on the 2017s that need fixing. You can pick up a good leftover AXYS for quite a bit less then the Ski Doo, and the AXYS chassis is impressive.

You will notice no Cat's from 2012 - 2016ish.... Not trying to say the M8000 chassis isn't worth having... great jumping sled, but just really struggled with trenching problems and didn't seem to do that well in the trees. They also make most of their power extremely high up in the rev range, which makes them tough to ride for most.

Hopefully Doo will fix a few of the reliability issues on the 850 for 2018 and we can have a great new chassis that won't leave us in the mountains... But the 2018 Cat is apparently going to be a good ride as well... Seems like they have finally figured out the chassis.

Just keep in mind that none of these sleds are good at "trail riding"... Honestly most of them are pretty miserable at it. Trail sleds have super wide ski stance's for stability... Mountain sleds are narrow for sidehilling..

thanks for the info... it seems that in general mountain sleds require tons of power but have to remain light and manueverable which I believe is why 2 strokes still dominate this application

I believe that trail sleds are a bit more heavy duty in terms of frame and build but there really is no point for one here unless you stay in AB in sundre, gull lake etc...

I know a ton of people who rave about artic kitty's M8 but as you mentioned lack any innovation when compared to the latest BRP Summit design and etec

pricing it out, like a "boat" I'm really thinking that its best that I rent as I've learnt my lesson with the latter lol (but I still love my boat)

Thinking about hitting up the purcell and forrester road area out by the Columbia valley in a couple months, and will likely rent a Summit 850