Custom Home Builders?

[riced]

Has anyone built a custom-spec home using a custom home builder and not one of the "usuals" in a community (ie., Shane, Excel, Jayman, etc).

Looking into building our next home in a developing community (likely Airdrie) but was wondering if anyone had any tips/advice on it.

- In any developing community, most builders have already purchased the land. Can a custom home builder go in, buy the land from them and build my home?

- If you have built, did you find it better? (if you've built a pre-spec'd home before). Cheaper? More expensive? About the same?

- Any tips on using a custom builder versus going into a show home and picking things?

Just looking for other options to get things the way I want. I know a lot of the big names can customize a lot of things - which may just fit the bill - but wanted opinions/thoughts!

[88CRX]

I have never heard of any of the major land developers that sell their lots to the ‘typical’ home builders (like Jayman or Shane or Cardel) allowing any custom builders purchase the land and build a true custom home. For whatever reason they just don’t allow it.

You best bet is finding a ‘typical’ builder that is willing to customize a plan for you. And usually the more you spend the more they’re willing to customize. Most of the estate builders allow for nearly 100% customization whereas the starter home builders allow virtually no revisions as all. The real kicker is the typical builders wont go too far down the road to customize the plans or finalize the pricing for you until you’ve signed on the dotted line. And as soon as you’ve signed on the dotted line they have all the power. Its really not a great process at all, which sucks.

When we did ours we got in writing the cost per square foot for garage space, undeveloped basement space, finished above ground space and finished cantilever space so that when we added those things we already knew the rough extra pricing they were going to come back with. Those should cover the major 'extras' that will come up when they actually draft your plans (well after you've already signed on the dotted line). Also get unit costs for as many other things as possible (extra windows, doors, skylights, electrical items, millwork costs, etc etc). They will leave all the costing as vague as possible for as long as possible. Also most typical builders will want to keep their structural items as close to standard as possible (foundation, stair locations,, load bearing walls, etc) you should have 100% freedom for moving everything inside that.

If you’re set on trying to use a custom builder find out who the area developer is and start harassing and calling people there. The show homes will be of zero help for that process as your taking business away from them.

[gwill]

When your saying custom what price point are you looking for? Many large developers in higher price points will allow you to customize a fair bit.

Custom to me is hiring your own architect and designing your own home while others just want certain style of finishes custom to their wants.

In any new area you won't be able to buy land and use any builder you want unless there is public lots for Sale. You only see this in undesirable communities or locations.

[riced]

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I have never heard of any of the major land developers that sell their lots to the ‘typical’ home builders (like Jayman or Shane or Cardel) allowing any custom builders purchase the land and build a true custom home. For whatever reason they just don’t allow it.

You best bet is finding a ‘typical’ builder that is willing to customize a plan for you. And usually the more you spend the more they’re willing to customize. Most of the estate builders allow for nearly 100% customization whereas the starter home builders allow virtually no revisions as all. The real kicker is the typical builders wont go too far down the road to customize the plans or finalize the pricing for you until you’ve signed on the dotted line. And as soon as you’ve signed on the dotted line they have all the power. Its really not a great process at all, which sucks.

When we did ours we got in writing the cost per square foot for garage space, undeveloped basement space, finished above ground space and finished cantilever space so that when we added those things we already knew the rough extra pricing they were going to come back with. Those should cover the major 'extras' that will come up when they actually draft your plans (well after you've already signed on the dotted line). Also get unit costs for as many other things as possible (extra windows, doors, skylights, electrical items, millwork costs, etc etc). They will leave all the costing as vague as possible for as long as possible. Also most typical builders will want to keep their structural items as close to standard as possible (foundation, stair locations,, load bearing walls, etc) you should have 100% freedom for moving everything inside that.

If you’re set on trying to use a custom builder find out who the area developer is and start harassing and calling people there. The show homes will be of zero help for that process as your taking business away from them.

Thanks Ryan!

Good to know... I know that when we first built our 'starter home' with Shane, they allowed quite a bit of customization. Nothing heavy, but we were able to move/add/remove walls, add extra things we've seen in other homes, and re-arrange as we like. That was nice but I didn't know much more of what I liked/didn't like at the time.
Other builders like Excel had plan A or plan B. No moving anything outside of that.

The main reason I'm thinking about using a custom home builder is really just to have free reign over anything and everything within the lot space we have. Not that there's anything wrong with an existing floor plan... Just another option was all.
In browsing certain show homes, there are builders that allow one thing but don't allow another - so it gets frustrating. Ie., yes, we can do tandem garage. No, we can't make it taller. UGH

[R-Audi]

Worth adding, most new areas have tight architectural controls as well...

[riced]

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When your saying custom what price point are you looking for? Many large developers in higher price points will allow you to customize a fair bit.

Custom to me is hiring your own architect and designing your own home while others just want certain style of finishes custom to their wants.

In any new area you won't be able to buy land and use any builder you want unless there is public lots for Sale. You only see this in undesirable communities or locations.

Price point would be anywhere between 500-800,000k. I know it's a wide range, but we're flexible enough to go to the upper end if we got enough of what we wanted.

The custom builder I have access to would be taking care of the designing/building with their people - which is what I was looking forward to doing.

[88CRX]

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The main reason I'm thinking about using a custom home builder is really just to have free reign over anything and everything within the lot space we have.

You should be able to do that with any typical builder as well.... some just price gouge more then others for this 'custom/upgrade' work then others haha.

We built our first house with Brookfield and they wouldn't allow us to change anything. We wanted to change one of the tub/showers to a shower base with glass doors and they wouldn't let us. They also charged us an outrageous upgrade charge for under cabinet lights as it wasn't in their standard book of minor upgrades.

Building now with Cedarglen and its been awesome. I would highly recommend them as they've allowed pretty much free reign on modifications. And this supports what I've heard in the industry as the larger the builder is the more rules they have for the custom design process. Like Excell not allowing any changes. I've head the same about Jayman & Cardel in not offering any real custom design work. Cedarglen is a pretty small operation, which lowers their overhead, which in my experience has translated into lower upgrade costs and tons of free design rework. In fact I drafted our entire main floor (specifically the garage, kitchen and mudroom/pantry) and asked them to match it and they did.

And if the sales person in the show home pushes back on custom stuff that really isn't that significant (like raising the garage ceiling) push them harder and ask them to review with their drafting/construction departments. They're not the one making the call (their drafting department is) and they don't typically have a ton of construction experience. And get as many custom things in the contract and/or on the preliminary drawings before you sign the contract.

[KPHMPH]

Calbridge, Morission, Avi Home.... a few custom builders that will allow you to do whatever you want in a house. It all comes with a price tag though. 3500 sq ft house from Calbridge wanted $12,000 to do flat ceilings in the house. I thought that was ludicrous.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is the problem is getting the lot you want - they get snapped up by all the cookie-cutter builders.

[colinxx235]

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Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is the problem is getting the lot you want - they get snapped up by all the cookie-cutter builders.

Pretty much. For example if you want to build in like Mahogany or Auburn. Most of those lots went to all the huge builders as a result of the lottery system and how the developer decided to divide up. So depending what phase/area you want you are at the mercy of the home builders as well as the codes set by developer.

I would most likely say good luck getting a custom home builder to buy the lot off a big guy to let you customize one. The response would probably be to pound some sand or the most outrageous markup on the lot (aka fuck off).

[88CRX]

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Pretty much. For example if you want to build in like Mahogany or Auburn. Most of those lots went to all the huge builders as a result of the lottery system and how the developer decided to divide up. So depending what phase/area you want you are at the mercy of the home builders as well as the codes set by developer.

I would most likely say good luck getting a custom home builder to buy the lot off a big guy to let you customize one. The response would probably be to pound some sand or the most outrageous markup on the lot (aka fuck off).

The area developers actually hold a lottery draft for the home builders to pick the lots. Say one community phase has 40 lots up for grabs, the home builders gather around, flip a coin (seriously!) and then take turns picking their lots off the map. With all the more desirable lots being picked first and the crappy ones being picked last... but they all get picked by one of their home builders.

Sometimes they also have pooled lots that any of the approved home builders can purchase and build on, they're sold on a first come, first served basis. The pooled lots are usually less desirable.

So if you want the 'best' lot the home builder that picked and purchased it isn't going to let it go.

I actually found the costs from the crappiest lots on the main drag through the community to the better/best lots which were much larger on a quiet street was only about a 5-10% extra. From $185k to $200k.

[riced]

Thanks for all the replies guys. Thought I'd update this for reference...

We ended up visiting a few show homes to ask about customization and all the rest and while most were kind of just "well we can work with you, but it's pretty much just plan A or plan B", we found one builder in Airdrie (McKee Homes) that allowed pretty much full reign over what you wanted to do with the house. Move walls/rooms/stairs, add custom features such as beams, balconies, different sized windows, customized garage, etc. The list kind of goes on (my list, anyway). I wish we had known about this the first time we were building but I guess that's kinda what happens when you build your first home.

Anyway, thank you!

[craigcd]

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Thanks for all the replies guys. Thought I'd update this for reference...

We ended up visiting a few show homes to ask about customization and all the rest and while most were kind of just "well we can work with you, but it's pretty much just plan A or plan B", we found one builder in Airdrie (McKee Homes) that allowed pretty much full reign over what you wanted to do with the house. Move walls/rooms/stairs, add custom features such as beams, balconies, different sized windows, customized garage, etc. The list kind of goes on (my list, anyway). I wish we had known about this the first time we were building but I guess that's kinda what happens when you build your first home.

Anyway, thank you!

You could also check out Harder Homes in Airdrie- they do "custom" also but they will be a premium over McKee. We built with McKee and were happy, they have fixed everything I have had issues with and some of it was borderline picky "asshole" items. I know there are lots of threads about terrible builders and I was expecting similar. Honestly they have been all around great to deal with.

What community are you looking at? If you are spending the money on the house I would focus on community...... my suggestion would be Coopers Crossing. Don't pay a premium on the house to be in Bayside IMO.

[ExtraSlow]

Livin dat luxury lifestyle bro.

[riced]

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You could also check out Harder Homes in Airdrie- they do "custom" also but they will be a premium over McKee. We built with McKee and were happy, they have fixed everything I have had issues with and some of it was borderline picky "asshole" items. I know there are lots of threads about terrible builders and I was expecting similar. Honestly they have been all around great to deal with.

What community are you looking at? If you are spending the money on the house I would focus on community...... my suggestion would be Coopers Crossing. Don't pay a premium on the house to be in Bayside IMO.

Yes, I've heard nothing but good things about McKee - which brings me some comfort. I have no complaints with Shane homes either - they did a great job and continued to help/fix things well past the warranty period. Thank you for the feedback on them!

We originally looked in Cooper's Crossing and then we looked in Bayside right after. Honestly, it seemed like the premium was in Cooper's over Bayside (understandably so, since Cooper's is probably "the" community of Airdrie). However, in looking it appeared that the same house we were looking at was about 40k more in Cooper's than in Bayside.

[craigcd]

Go look at other areas of Bayside that are older, the community will deteriorate after 5 years..... I lived in a similar area in Airdrie before moving back to Calgary, then back to Airdrie. Yes you will pay a premium in Coopers. In my eyes it is 100% worth the difference. The pride in ownership is night and day, that extra 40k is a barrier for many people to enter. I guess every time we have moved we came to the conclusion that it was the community not the house so we changed that this time around and couldn't be happier.

When we moved to Coopers we were sick of:

-People not taking care of there $hit/no pride in ownership
-Houses turning into rentals
-Each residence having 5 cars
-Landscaping not complete
-Etc.

Sure this can still be an issue in Coopers but it is an exception not the rule like many other communities! Head out to each community on a nice weekend and walk the paths and hang out at the parks in each community. Its different for some reason!

[craigcd]

I should add that I do like some of the newer areas in Bayside. Close to the show homes and backing onto the water, there a couple really nice cul-de-sacs and streets......just concerned how it will look in 5-10years!

[Perfect Dark]

Mckee still has some decent lots in Hillcrest as well which is where I just finished building. Nice area, great access to everything and doesn't have the Cooper's mark-up.

[oilerfan4lyfe]

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You should be able to do that with any typical builder as well.... some just price gouge more then others for this 'custom/upgrade' work then others haha.

We built our first house with Brookfield and they wouldn't allow us to change anything. We wanted to change one of the tub/showers to a shower base with glass doors and they wouldn't let us. They also charged us an outrageous upgrade charge for under cabinet lights as it wasn't in their standard book of minor upgrades.

Building now with Cedarglen and its been awesome. I would highly recommend them as they've allowed pretty much free reign on modifications. And this supports what I've heard in the industry as the larger the builder is the more rules they have for the custom design process. Like Excell not allowing any changes. I've head the same about Jayman & Cardel in not offering any real custom design work. Cedarglen is a pretty small operation, which lowers their overhead, which in my experience has translated into lower upgrade costs and tons of free design rework. In fact I drafted our entire main floor (specifically the garage, kitchen and mudroom/pantry) and asked them to match it and they did.

And if the sales person in the show home pushes back on custom stuff that really isn't that significant (like raising the garage ceiling) push them harder and ask them to review with their drafting/construction departments. They're not the one making the call (their drafting department is) and they don't typically have a ton of construction experience. And get as many custom things in the contract and/or on the preliminary drawings before you sign the contract.

Where are you building with Cedarglen? This sounds promising to me...I'm hoping to build in Harvest and it's Cedarglen only, so I'm hoping they're able to modify a lot of things from their standard floor plans. The Cedarglen agents in other areas make it sound like you're basically stuck with the design and the floor plan so all you can do is pay for nicer fixtures and finishings.

[riced]

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Go look at other areas of Bayside that are older, the community will deteriorate after 5 years..... I lived in a similar area in Airdrie before moving back to Calgary, then back to Airdrie. Yes you will pay a premium in Coopers. In my eyes it is 100% worth the difference. The pride in ownership is night and day, that extra 40k is a barrier for many people to enter. I guess every time we have moved we came to the conclusion that it was the community not the house so we changed that this time around and couldn't be happier.

When we moved to Coopers we were sick of:

-People not taking care of there $hit/no pride in ownership
-Houses turning into rentals
-Each residence having 5 cars
-Landscaping not complete
-Etc.

Sure this can still be an issue in Coopers but it is an exception not the rule like many other communities! Head out to each community on a nice weekend and walk the paths and hang out at the parks in each community. Its different for some reason!

I know what you mean. I'm in Hillcrest now and it's pretty good where we are. Good neighbours all around us, good vibes... but the rest of Hillcrest just on the other side of the street is like SE Calgary (Forest Lawn) type. It's weird.
We have walked a bit in Cooper's and while I get what you mean, there's also this sense of "we're the best" type of attitude which is not terrible but it's not something I care for either... If that makes sense.

The area we are looking at in Bayside is close to the water, not far from 8th. So it's more inner to avoid the street noise from Yankee/8th, but still decent. I have yet to really take a look at the surrounding area to see what the vibe is like though... I get what you mean though.