ICBC projected to lose 1.3 billion during fiscal 2017

[Sugarphreak]

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[Masked Bandit]

The big problem with government systems like ICBC or SGI is that they significantly undercharge the riskiest groups (new drivers, drivers with accidents & tickets, etc.) which basically means the rest of the driving population pays more than their fair share. When we have new clients move in from BC or SK and they are over 25 with good records we're (Alberta) almost always noticeably cheaper.

[Hallowed_point]

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The big problem with government systems like ICBC or SGI is that they significantly undercharge the riskiest groups (new drivers, drivers with accidents & tickets, etc.) which basically means the rest of the driving population pays more than their fair share. When we have new clients move in from BC or SK and they are over 25 with good records we're (Alberta) almost always noticeably cheaper.

Totally. Another reason why I left that province.

People's Republic of BC.

[e31]

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Might be about who and what they are insuring and if the premiums are enough..

An interesting phenomenon exists in BC, I call it the "Chicken-and-shitbox" paradox. As far as I've been informed this has prevailed since at least the mid 60's.

It would seem a sizeable percentage of BC people cannot afford to drive newer vehicles, or keep their existing vehicles properly maintained. For this argument we'll call them "shitboxes".

Owing to the conditions that make proper vehicle maintenance unaffordable, they are also barely able to maintain payment of insurance premiums. So a cycle begins where these people are stuck driving a junker car until the vehicle is removed from the road due to break down or accident damage.

At this point you have a coin-toss to find out if ICBC pays. Either the gov't pays out to replace someone's shitbox, or there is no payout and another inexpensive shitbox is acquired.

Either way ICBC has allowed this to propagate out of control by not requiring inspections at registration; and due to financial shortcomings, there is no way they would refuse to take insurance premiums on tens of thousands of clapped out shitboxes.

[HiTempguy1]

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Grid was introduced in 2004. Anything before that, $6k a year for PLPD was the norm for new drivers regardless of vehicle or age of driver. Took 7 years of clean driving to get down to good driver average, which was around $300/year back then.

You kids have it easy haha.

Yep, I turned 16 around then. Was sweating bullets with people telling me $6k/year for insurance at the age of 16! My parents wouldn't allow me to drive their vehicles as all the insurance companies would not allow kids to drive parents vehicles without an increase of $200/month just for liability on their rates. It was nuts, I was very lucky the grid came in. Still wasn't cheap though, $1800/year back when minimum wage was NOT a "living wage" at $5.25/h. $840/month before tax lol.

I've always had a vehicle and insurance since 16. Couldn't imagine any other way, especially growing up outside Edmonton and Calgary.

[16hypen3sp]

Isn't ICBC good if you're a new driver but horrible if you're an experienced, older driver in terms of rates??

I remember being 18 and paying $400 per month for full coverage on an '03 RSX-S. Fucking nuts. (Alberta)

[Zero102]

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The big problem with government systems like ICBC or SGI is that they significantly undercharge the riskiest groups (new drivers, drivers with accidents & tickets, etc.) which basically means the rest of the driving population pays more than their fair share. When we have new clients move in from BC or SK and they are over 25 with good records we're (Alberta) almost always noticeably cheaper.

So true. We just moved Calgary -> Vernon. Insurance went from $140/month (2 cars) to $250/month for lower coverage (higher deductibles and no extras).
ICBC sucks.

The other stupid thing here is you pay PST on used vehicle sales. So if I buy a car off a person for $5k, who already paid GST and PST on it when they bought it new, I still have to pay PST on that $5k when I go to register and insure it.

[jwslam]

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I remember being 18 and paying $400 per month for full coverage on an '03 RSX-S. Fucking nuts. (Alberta)

Probably would've been $50 if you chose a Caravan instead
Bonus for all the back seat room

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Yep, I turned 16 around then. Was sweating bullets with people telling me $6k/year for insurance at the age of 16! My parents wouldn't allow me to drive their vehicles as all the insurance companies would not allow kids to drive parents vehicles without an increase of $200/month just for liability on their rates. It was nuts, I was very lucky the grid came in. Still wasn't cheap though, $1800/year back when minimum wage was NOT a "living wage" at $5.25/h. $840/month before tax lol.

I've always had a vehicle and insurance since 16. Couldn't imagine any other way, especially growing up outside Edmonton and Calgary.

How is that a relevant story that you were making $5.25/hr and it not being living wage. You weren't trying to live on your own, making this little, while paying for car insurance...

My AB story: 2006 - 18y/o clean record 2 yr driving exp. Own policy on a PLPD econobox. $1900/yr.

[rage2]

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The big problem with government systems like ICBC or SGI is that they significantly undercharge the riskiest groups (new drivers, drivers with accidents & tickets, etc.) which basically means the rest of the driving population pays more than their fair share. When we have new clients move in from BC or SK and they are over 25 with good records we're (Alberta) almost always noticeably cheaper.

The grid also fucked that up here in AB, but at least shitty drivers here pay more in comparison to BC.

People in my age group got fucked the most. We subsidized good drivers with crazy rates till we were 25, and a couple years later, grid comes in and doubles our good driver premiums to subsidize the shitty drivers. #stillbitter

[HiTempguy1]

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How is that a relevant story

Meta reference to overall Beyond conversations on the topic lately Kind of why it was hidden in there, was poking fun :p

[Masked Bandit]

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The grid also fucked that up here in AB, but at least shitty drivers here pay more in comparison to BC.

People in my age group got fucked the most. We subsidized good drivers with crazy rates till we were 25, and a couple years later, grid comes in and doubles our good driver premiums to subsidize the shitty drivers. #stillbitter

You're absolutely right. Anytime the government forces private industry to artificially deflate pricing in one segment the shortfall will simply be shifted to other areas. It's not like the insurance companies are just going to run with less profit.

Taking that idea a step further, peeps need to hang on to their wallets when it comes to auto insurance. We're seeing trends & whispers that indicate some pretty significant rate hikes in the next one to four years. Lawyers are figuring out how to get around the pain & suffering cap that the Grid program implemented so like anything else, if claims costs go up, premiums will go up too.

[suntan]

I paid around $275/mth for car insurance when I was 22 here in Alberta. New car. Had to call a ton of places to get that rate though. Ended up with AMA.

[rage2]

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You're absolutely right. Anytime the government forces private industry to artificially deflate pricing in one segment the shortfall will simply be shifted to other areas. It's not like the insurance companies are just going to run with less profit.

I'm surprised insurance hasn't gone full socialist. Risk based assessments is pretty much discrimination. Even if Asians are statistically worst drivers, you can't penalize them with a higher risk assessment even though we all know it's statistically accurate. The grid system was put in place to eliminate discrimination against new drivers. It's 2018, I'm sure eliminating insurance risk discrimination against shitty drivers is just around the corner.

[ExtraSlow]

Soon we'll have flat insurance premiums for all drivers regardless of age or driving history.
Glorious!

[jwslam]

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Soon we'll have flat insurance premiums for all drivers regardless of age or driving history.
Glorious!

Great. And your yellow lambo will have the same premiums as my 10 year old minivan because y'know, you they can't discriminate against your choice of vehicle.

[Masked Bandit]

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I'm surprised insurance hasn't gone full socialist. Risk based assessments is pretty much discrimination. Even if Asians are statistically worst drivers, you can't penalize them with a higher risk assessment even though we all know it's statistically accurate. The grid system was put in place to eliminate discrimination against new drivers. It's 2018, I'm sure eliminating insurance risk discrimination against shitty drivers is just around the corner.

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Soon we'll have flat insurance premiums for all drivers regardless of age or driving history.
Glorious!

Truth be told it's going the other way and pretty quickly. Quoting an auto policy used to have about 10 variables to it and we worked it out by hand like a grade 8 math problem. Now the number of input variables has exploded and the rating equations aren't even published anymore, we just have to "trust the machine" AKA quoting software. Things like the full six digits of your postal code and even your personal credit score can significantly impact premiums. Most of the traditional inputs still make the biggest differences, things like accidents, years insured, tickets, etc. but every once in a while something gets spit out of the machine that makes me wonder if a number didn't get pulled out thin air.

[rage2]

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Truth be told it's going the other way and pretty quickly. Quoting an auto policy used to have about 10 variables to it and we worked it out by hand like a grade 8 math problem. Now the number of input variables has exploded and the rating equations aren't even published anymore, we just have to "trust the machine" AKA quoting software. Things like the full six digits of your postal code and even your personal credit score can significantly impact premiums. Most of the traditional inputs still make the biggest differences, things like accidents, years insured, tickets, etc. but every once in a while something gets spit out of the machine that makes me wonder if a number didn't get pulled out thin air.

Coles Notes, it's OK for a machine to discriminate? haha

[speedog]

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Coles Notes, it's OK for a machine to discriminate? haha

So facts and probabilities have no place in determining insurance ratings?

Fuck, I'll readily admit I took far more risks and did dumber things when I was a young driver and the same goes for the majority of young male drivers. How is that discrimination then?

[Tik-Tok]

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[rage2]

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So facts and probabilities have no place in determining insurance ratings?

Fuck, I'll readily admit I took far more risks and did dumber things when I was a young driver and the same goes for the majority of young male drivers. How is that discrimination then?

If I remember right, for new drivers males used to have higher risks and insurance costs. While we were paying $6k PLPD, females were paying about 30% less from what I remember.