The US of A Shooting Mega-Thread

[HuMz]

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Good to see in the news today many major companies are finally pulling support and/or funding for the NRA. So ridiculous (regardless which side you’re on) to have a glorified gun club with so much financial backing and political influence.

The NRA is virtually nothing compared to many other leftist organizations with way more money and political influence.

I doubt we'll see these same people go after planned parenthood any time soon.

[95EagleAWD]

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The NRA is virtually nothing compared to many other leftist organizations with way more money and political influence.

I doubt we'll see these same people go after planned parenthood any time soon.

Planned parenthood isn't on TV with crazy spokespeople after kids are getting murdered in schools, either.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Funny, the NRA was originally formed in the 1870's for the purpose of improving people's marksmanship should they get drafted into war

[A790]

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I doubt we'll see these same people go after planned parenthood any time soon.

How are these two groups equivalent exactly?

[J-hop]

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Funny, the NRA was originally formed in the 1870's for the purpose of improving people's marksmanship should they get drafted into war

Yea it’s pretty crazy how the world has changed.

I doubt the originators of the NRA would be proud of how it’s acting now. Much like I doubt those that wrote the 2nd amendment would be proud of how it’s been applied now.

People forget the world we live in would be almost unrecognizable to people from 100+ years ago.

[schocker]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/mec-...urer-1.3819220

[speedog]

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https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/mec-...urer-1.3819220

Why are you bothering with click baiting?

Anyhow, topic of click bait article, " MEC faces calls to drop outdoor brands owned by U.S. gun manufacturer".

[HuMz]

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Planned parenthood isn't on TV with crazy spokespeople after kids are getting murdered in schools, either.

I would argue that planned parenthood is killing our youngest children everyday, the only difference is that they have brainwashed roughly half of the population to believe that what they are killing isn't fully human like the rest of us. I also don't see why it matters that the NRA speaks up after a tragedy like this. It's not their fault this happened, and I think they're right to try and correct the ignorant people who think they are somehow responsible for this. If someone wants to lay blame beyond this shooter, they should be looking at the government who failed miserably at numerous levels.

This shooter had 30+ interactions with this local PD (including making threats to harm others), and what looks for political reasons, they didn't charge him that would have prevented him from buying a gun. This is the same department whereby 4 armed officers stood outside while children were being shot. Then there was the FBI, who received 2 tips that shooter was going to shoot up a bunch of innocent people in advance, and for whatever reason they didn't follow their own internal protocol and didn't pursue them. There were laws and protocols in place that could have prevented this shooter from buying his guns, they just weren't followed.

[schocker]

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Why are you bothering with click baiting?

Anyhow, topic of click bait article, " MEC faces calls to drop outdoor brands owned by U.S. gun manufacturer".

How is that click baiting? Gun arm of conglomerate sends money to the NRA so people want MEC to stop carrying and send back all of their products. That is directly related to the issue being discussed.

[HuMz]

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How are these two groups equivalent exactly?

Many people are against the NRA for the reason's J-Hop mentioned (because of their financial backing and political influence). Yet their financial backing comes from its millions of members, and their political influence is virtually nothing compared a group like Planned Parenthood. If people are against lobbying groups like the NRA being able to donate money to political campaigns, they should be just as opposed to leftest groups who have way more influence and financial backing like planned parenthood.

If one wants to eliminate all of the lobbying that goes on across the board then I think that's a sensible position. Unfortunately, I'm not hearing that argument from people protesting the NRA's ability to influence. I don't think its fair to be outraged that the NRA lobbies the government, when there are many more leftest groups who lobby substantially more, and have way more political influence. You either want a system where lobbying is outlawed or severely limited, or its fair game for everyone.

[HiTempguy1]

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Planned parenthood isn't on TV with crazy spokespeople after kids are getting murdered in schools, either.

Yea, they just have the media promote them instead. Free advertising!

Plus being a government funded organization, they take money from people who do not support them, they don't have much need to advertise between the media and gov doing it for them.

Except, Planned Parenthood advertises a ton.

[msommers]

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Many people are against the NRA for the reason's J-Hop mentioned (because of their financial backing and political influence). Yet their financial backing comes from its millions of members, and their political influence is virtually nothing compared a group like Planned Parenthood. If people are against lobbying groups like the NRA being able to donate money to political campaigns, they should be just as opposed to leftest groups who have way more influence and financial backing like planned parenthood.

If one wants to eliminate all of the lobbying that goes on across the board then I think that's a sensible position. Unfortunately, I'm not hearing that argument from people protesting the NRA's ability to influence. I don't think its fair to be outraged that the NRA lobbies the government, when there are many more leftest groups who lobby substantially more, and have way more political influence. You either want a system where lobbying is outlawed or severely limited, or its fair game for everyone.

Well if these numbers are to be believed, the NRA actually spends approximately double on lobbying than Planned Parenthood.

https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/cl...?id=d000000082

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/lob...?id=D000000591

Aside from Planned Parenthood, what leftist groups were you referring to who have "way more influence and financial backing" [in contrast to the NRA]?

[Mitsu3000gt]

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Yea it’s pretty crazy how the world has changed.

I doubt the originators of the NRA would be proud of how it’s acting now. Much like I doubt those that wrote the 2nd amendment would be proud of how it’s been applied now.

People forget the world we live in would be almost unrecognizable to people from 100+ years ago.

I listened to part of a supreme court debate on the 2nd amendment, apparently it went on for over 90 minutes. The key point seems to be whether or not "people" (as in everyone) and "militia" are one in the same or not, and the general interpretation of that. I think most people agree that when the 2nd amendment was written it was not in the spirit of what we see today. Further to that, there are still heavy restrictions on the 2nd amendment, as people are not allowed to arm themselves however and whenever they see fit.

[Gman.45]

The teacher thing is separate but still valid. Arming teachers is brain dead.

Why?

Is arming police officers brain dead? What's the difference?

Training. And that's it. Police aren't some magical force that will be on hand to save you, they are a reactive force, and even when they do arrive, statistically police miss 80% or more of their shots and an equal number of their targets survive when hit. That's right from the FBI's on stats on law enforcement engagements. Civilians can achieve as good or better results, as they only have to focus on the firearms part of their training, while for officers it's just a tiny fraction of what they need to know and keep up with.

Give any willing and able teacher a good week's solid training in a small class size - easily the equivalent of what L/E members get in a large class size with their 2 weeks of firearms training. Done at a good school with a good instructor, and properly equipped, any teacher can be as good if not a better deterrent and defense than law enforcement can be, since they'll already be on site. Yes, mistakes will happen, however mistakes happen with L/E, in huge numbers of accidental/bad shootings, yet the leftists are fine with giving L/E permission to be armed and to respond, but for some reason nobody else. "NO guns" isn't ever going to be an answer, and feel-good restrictions on types/magazines won't have any effect at all. Again, even here in Canada where the left in the USA always point to, all this Florida kid would have to do is take a one/two day course, get his license, join a range for the transport/restricted permit, wait a short time after buying his AR15 for it to be transfered to him, and drill out the pop rivets in the 5/30 round magazines. End of story. Considering he was a problem for months down there it's now come out, the short delay we have up here for the license and transfers wouldn't make ANY difference at all - he didn't spontaneously decide to go by a rifle and shoot up a school, he had weapons for years.

I have a nephew that goes to a private school in Washington State right now, 1/4 of his teachers are former military and have a basic or better understanding of using firearms in a fight already - he would be safer with some of them being armed and trained than some useless ban or restrictions on firearms which won't stop anyone.

[Gman.45]

I think most people agree that when the 2nd amendment was written it was not in the spirit of what we see today. Further to that, there are still heavy restrictions on the 2nd amendment, as people are not allowed to arm themselves however and whenever they see fit.

American's don't all necessarily believe that. In fact the entire reason the 2nd was created was to create a system of checks and balances to prevent government tyranny. It wasn't about self defense, I'll link in some material from left wing schools like Yale/Harvard later, where even the proffs there state that self defense and the carrying of personal firearms was such a regular thing that it wasn't even specifically mentioned in ANY documentation. It was military grade weapons, specifically artillery that the 2nd was referring to, according to Prof Lepore @ Harvard.

Quote from Lepore's opinion on 2A -

The English words "bear arms" were used for a specific reason in the second when it was written. Again, the British crown didn't stir much, if at all, regarding the subject of restricting small arms ownership or use in the colonies, before, or even during the revolutionary war. They did however take specific measures to seize artillery and its associated equipment and ammunition, in fact that was when the first shots were fired in the war for independence. Nor was there any particular movement to restrict small arms by the new American government. So why even write "bearing arms, people, militia" into the second amendment then? The British military terminology "to bear arms" being included, as "arms" as was used then didn't refer only to small arms, in fact it specifically was a term used to describe the most powerful weapons of the day on the battlefield, which was field artillery.

The entire reason those who support the 2A in the USA get so pissy about giving up ANY ground, is specifically what you said - there have been restrictions already from governments since the time the second was written in, and in recent times things like the 1968 law and the ones in the late 80s did nothing to stop crime or violence, yet cost many firearms owners a ton of $ and created new markets where only the rich could own certain types. These restrictions may seen like common sense, the whole "why does anyone need a machine gun/etc" question, however the intent of the 2A was exactly that, to allow the citizens to have equal firepower to the government in order for the checks and balances purpose to keep working. Sure, many may say that's crazy these days, but considering what governments of ALL parties have been caught doing - and god knows what they havne't been caught doing yet is the quesiton in the forefront of 2a defender's minds - is it no surprise that 2A types in the USA aren't willing to bargain on anything?

[killramos]

I’m just waiting for this left wing bs to swing so far that I get to have my loaded emotional support handgun with me at all times.

I know it certainly helps me feel objectively more comfortable with tense situations and will let me sleep like a baby.

[Gman.45]

I’m just waiting for this left wing bs to swing so far that I get to have my loaded emotional support handgun with me at all times.

IMO that's a big part of the problem in the USA. Having worked at one of the best shooting schools in the USA, traveled and worked in 25+ of the States in the Union and observed differences regarding firearms regs and training, it's my belief that the vast, vast majority of armed Americans are equipped with exactly that - a CBA/cool by association effect and tools/weapons that they aren't really capable of using effectively, which makes them little more than an emotional support system. A dangerous one at that. I'm all in favor of mandatory effective training with stringent testing requirements, including mental health. The problem with instituting this in the USA is that little two digit number from before - 2A. The second amendment was written in a time where every male of military fighting age was adept at using a rifle, and mental health problems were a massive stigma, and frankly, society was different due to the strict nature of the religious culture in America during those times.

[speedog]

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How is that click baiting? Gun arm of conglomerate sends money to the NRA so people want MEC to stop carrying and send back all of their products. That is directly related to the issue being discussed.

So provide more details, why should one be forced to click on a nondescript link to find out what the linked topic is?

[sabad66]

Anyone catch this latest Trump meeting with bipartisan senators? Seems like he might be leaning towards implementing some common sense gun controls. Comments from the /r/the_donald thread are very entertaining

[Mitsu3000gt]

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Anyone catch this latest Trump meeting with bipartisan senators? Seems like he might be leaning towards implementing some common sense gun controls. Comments from the /r/the_donald thread are very entertaining

I'll have to read that, the last thing I read was just that he wanted bump stocks banned and the buying age raised to 21. He's also the one who personally removed a bill Obama put in that prevents the mentally ill from obtaining guns, because he is categorically opposed to anything Obama did.