The US of A Shooting Mega-Thread

[jabjab]

All you hear on the news from political figures is the same scipt that actually does nothing "we are saddened by these deaths and our thoughts are with the family" or "when is this going stop!"

Well all these sayings are great for TV but obviously you don't get someone with a healthy mental state wake up and think its a good idea to shoot innocent people. I think they should implement mental health classes in school at a very early age just like they have gym classes. This would be a good start.

[tirebob]

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The USA needs a reality check; their system is not working. They haven't figured out how to overcome the gun lobby and their politicians are too weak to stand up as a collective and fight the passionate minority. That minority is bolstered by the uneducated rural folk in the South who are a little slow to advance as a society, so it's kinda like a fish being drawn to a shiny lure - they just can't help but hold onto it even though it's killing them.




America. Fuck yeah!

Honestly man, you are quite far off-base with this assessment. Gun owners and enthusiasts who believe in their second amendment rights to their core are no just a small minority. My wife and her family are all American spread from Seattle to Texas and cover both ends of the scale politically from hardcore socialists to hardcore conservatives and as different as they all are in their politics, the one thing they all have in common is the only way you will take their guns away is "from there cold dead hands".

It has absolutely nothing to do with location or class. It is bred into them from day one. Their entire country is built around it. Their culture dictates that they always need to be in a position to throw off the yoke of tyranny by force if ever required... Believe it.

If it ever happens that the US government tries to force through any actual effective control of firearms within the civilian population, that is when shit is going to pop off down there. Anything else is just barely enough lip service to get and stay elected without alienating the core.

Access to firearms down there is never going to fix anything. They have waaaaay deeper issues causing this stuff than the gun. Unless they are willing to take a long approach to dealing with that, it is either going to be more of the same or civil war.

Sad to be sure.

[vengie]

I'm still shocked how easy it is to acquire a firearm and a high capacity clip in the states.

I'm all for guns, but come on.

Limit clip capacity and have a six month licensing program with multiple steps like they do here in Canada.

[killramos]

I are triggered by your use of the word clip

Stahp

[vengie]

I propose a mega-clip thread.

Stick that in your magazine and smoke it!

[tirebob]

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I'm still shocked how easy it is to acquire a firearm and a high capacity clip in the states.

I'm all for guns, but come on.

Limit clip capacity and have a six month licensing program with multiple steps like they do here in Canada.

The crazier thing is that you could make all of that stuff 100% illegal and it won't make one bit of difference. There are at least hundreds of millions, if not billions, of firearms and their accessories out in the civilian world in the USA and access from stores versus access from the street is virtually just as easy. If someone is looney enough to go off like this, a little thing like legality is not going to stop them.

[vengie]

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The crazier thing is that you could make all of that stuff 100% illegal and it won't make one bit of difference. There are at least hundreds of millions, if not billions, of firearms and their accessories out in the civilian world in the USA and access from stores versus access from the street is virtually just as easy. If someone is looney enough to go off like this, a little thing like legality is not going to stop them.

This is where I genuinely disagree.
There are ~7.1 million registered firearms in Canada and many more that aren't, yet we don't have the same mass shooting issues that the US has.

This latest instance, the kid turned 18, immediately went to a store and walked out with his firearm hours later.
Zero training, zero background check, zero accountability.

If someone is mentally unstable and wants to cause mass harm they are going to look for the most convenient way to do so. In the US its too convenient to buy a high capacity firearm and go off.

[Tik-Tok]

It's a great deterrent from any country to try and invade your country, however having a right to hear arms in the face of a tyrannical government is laughable. Most of them are applauding tyranny these days because they see the other side as worse.

[zipdoa]

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This is where I genuinely disagree.
There are ~7.1 million registered firearms in Canada and many more that aren't, yet we don't have the same mass shooting issues that the US has.

Couple errors here....

There's 10 million unregistered firearms in Canada, and just under 2 million registered. Keep in mind, only restricted firearms must be registered.

[tirebob]

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This is where I genuinely disagree.
There are ~7.1 million registered firearms in Canada and many more that aren't, yet we don't have the same mass shooting issues that the US has.

This latest instance, the kid turned 18, immediately went to a store and walked out with his firearm hours later.
Zero training, zero background check, zero accountability.

If someone is mentally unstable and wants to cause mass harm they are going to look for the most convenient way to do so. In the US its too convenient to buy a high capacity firearm and go off.

I am not saying he didn't, but what I am saying is he could have easily got it from the street or a classified ad or whatever. If you think that someone this deranged will be dissuaded simply because he can't buy it in a store, it is only contributing to the problem because it is never going to address the very real cultural and metal health issues that create this kind of mess.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

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Couple errors here....

There's 10 million unregistered firearms in Canada, and just under 2 million registered. Keep in mind, only restricted firearms must be registered.

And yet, we're not on our 19th school shooting of the year.

[tirebob]

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It's a great deterrent from any country to try and invade your country, however having a right to hear arms in the face of a tyrannical government is laughable. Most of them are applauding tyranny these days because they see the other side as worse.

Laughable or not, it is engrained in them. You and I are not going to change it...

[jutes]

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Yes - that is clearly the takeaway from this incident.

If bullets don't kill you then heart disease will. 300,000 Americas die every year from obesity related illnesses, while the number who die from guns is 45,000. What's the real problem with the system?

[DonJuan]

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Every classroom should have a fully automatic weapon behind emergency glass, like a fire extinguisher.

In case of edgyness break glass.
@Kloubek 100% agree

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Id be willing to be at least 10% of Americans share this view. Maybe even up to 40% in places in places like rural Texas.

I think it's higher than that. There is lots of stupid Americans, especially in rural areas.

[vengie]

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I am not saying he didn't, but what I am saying is he could have easily got it from the street or a classified ad or whatever. If you think that someone this deranged will be dissuaded simply because he can't buy it in a store, it is only contributing to the problem because it is never going to address the very real cultural and metal health issues that create this kind of mess.

Then why isn't there mass shootings to a similar statistical degree in Canada?
People can just as easily buy guns on the street here no?

Anecdotal, but my belief is a deranged person isn't interested nor have the "connections" to buy a black market firearm and thus don't bother as its too much work.
They are searching for convenience, and walking into a store and walking out less than an hour later with a high capacity firearm is convenient and easy.

Mental health plays a massive role in a proper gun control program, which is why they need to implement a waiting period and background/ personal checks similar to Canada.

[Kloubek]

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Gun owners and enthusiasts who believe in their second amendment rights to their core are no just a small minority. My wife and her family are all American spread from Seattle to Texas and cover both ends of the scale politically from hardcore socialists to hardcore conservatives and as different as they all are in their politics, the one thing they all have in common is the only way you will take their guns away is "from there cold dead hands".

It has absolutely nothing to do with location or class. It is bred into them from day one. Their entire country is built around it. Their culture dictates that they always need to be in a position to throw off the yoke of tyranny by force if ever required... Believe it.

If it ever happens that the US government tries to force through any actual effective control of firearms within the civilian population, that is when shit is going to pop off down there. Anything else is just barely enough lip service to get and stay elected without alienating the core.

Access to firearms down there is never going to fix anything. They have waaaaay deeper issues causing this stuff than the gun. Unless they are willing to take a long approach to dealing with that, it is either going to be more of the same or civil war.

I just don't agree. Do you have any legit source that indicates that the average American is more interested in their right to easily obtain firearmss with high capacity magazines than their interest in saving lives during these regular events? When I say "minority", I don't mean it's a tiny fraction... there are many who don't support gun control. But I think MOST citizens would be open to some level of control (proper checks, assessments, limited lethality) if it meant a reduction in these events. I ask you for proof, but quite honestly am not providing any hard stats of my own - though this is what I have been drawn to believe based on the stats I HAVE seen over the last years. And while I can appreciate your anecdotal evidence, I just don't think it reflects the norm.

Now again, I'm not talking about removing the rights to bear arms. I feel that as an amendment right, many would fight against that. I'm talking about something similar to what we have here in Canada, minus the ridiculous banning of guns that simply look scary. And while some will view any gun control to infringing on their rights and being one step closer to a gun ban (which I don't think could ever actually happen without a civil war, as you mentioned) I think some will be getting sick of all these mass killings and be willing to compromise.

As for whether or not America has deeper issues that need to be addressed - I absolutely agree with that. We have a fair amount of guns in Canada too, but far less per capita mass shootings. Between, partisanship, racism and nationalism, there are many things which need to be fixed in America for this to stop happening. But if the volume of those getting killed could be reduced, I think that would at least be a good start.

[Yolobimmer]

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I'm still shocked how easy it is to acquire a firearm and a high capacity clip in the states.

I'm all for guns, but come on.

Limit clip capacity and have a six month licensing program with multiple steps like they do here in Canada.

It's easy here too. I bought some high capacity glock mags for my PSA AR9 like last year or so. All they do here typically is stick a rivet in to prevent full capacity. It's stupid. Like 2 seconds and some psycho has a 33 or 50 round handgun.

[tirebob]

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Then why isn't there mass shootings to a similar statistical degree in Canada?
People can just as easily buy guns on the street here no?

Anecdotal, but my belief is a deranged person isn't interested nor have the "connections" to buy a black market firearm and thus don't bother as its too much work.
They are searching for convenience, and walking into a store and walking out less than an hour later with a high capacity firearm is convenient and easy.

Mental health plays a massive role in a proper gun control program, which is why they need to implement a waiting period and background/ personal checks similar to Canada.

Metal health and societal issues is the key difference between why there are a crap ton more issues in the states. We are radically different in our core more than people think simply because we all look and talk the same. There is no need for the black market when you can simply answer a classified ad. In fact it is even more anonymous than walking into a store.

And no, if you wanted to try and buy a gun on the street in Canada, you will find it not near as easy than in the US. I wish I could simply provide you with evidence but all I have to go by is my eyes and experiences in the US where I have spent a shit ton of time. I have seen guns sold at garage sales. I have seen someone at a BBQ who was a guest of a guest pull out his wallet and buy a 357 magnum off the home owner after they were all just talking and comparing what guns they all have... In Seattle... Not buttfuck Arkansas. Anecdotal? Sure I guess, but I have not seen anything else showing this is not the norm.

You might think I am advocating for what they do down there but that isn't the case. I simply am being realistic about what actually goes on down there and the affect of what will happen if you try and change a seriously protective armed society. Placating people with ineffective laws based on their situation as it exists is not what will do it, at least in my humble opinion.

[DonJuan]

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It's easy here too. I bought some high capacity glock mags for my PSA AR9 like last year or so. All they do here typically is stick a rivet in to prevent full capacity. It's stupid. Like 2 seconds and some psycho has a 33 or 50 round handgun.

This is true, pinning them is all that's required for their sale and possession, and can *easily* be drilled out or unpinned with a little knowhow. For some reason the laws here stop people from doing that.

And that's a good point. Our culture or values here would say anyone unpinning their mag for high capacity is a psycho. In America is called being "patriotic".

[vengie]

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And no, if you wanted to try and buy a gun on the street in Canada, you will find it not near as easy than in the US. I wish I could simply provide you with evidence but all I have to go by is my eyes and experiences in the US where I have spent a shit ton of time. I have seen guns sold at garage sales. I have seen someone at a BBQ who was a guest of a guest pull out his wallet and buy a 357 magnum off the home owner after they were all just talking and comparing what guns they all have... In Seattle... Not buttfuck Arkansas. Anecdotal? Sure I guess, but I have not seen anything else showing this is not the norm.

I've done this here on multiple occasions as well though?
Difference is I am buying non restricted firearms (shotguns usually), but its literally a conversation with said friend "Hey I want to sell XXXX shotgun" and its done.
No paperwork.

I agree with you the mental aspect of American's vs Canadians, but I genuinely believe someone deranged is looking for convenience. We also have much greater access to support than they do in the US.

Is a fundamental problem in the States, but I genuinely believe better gun control legislation will SIGNIFICANTLY reduce the rate of mass shootings in the US.