The US of A Shooting Mega-Thread

[msommers]

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I honestly wish it were even more defined. A gang murdering another gang shouldn't really be in the same classification as a nutjob shooting random people.

Yeah they (literally everyone, the media, LE, general population) really need to use the FBI term of "active shooter incidents" because it is far more specific: "...exclude(s) drug or gang violence and “accidental discharges of a gun.” It says an “active shooter is an individual actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a populated area.”"

Came across this Vox article this morning discussing mental illness and gun violence; one prof's estimation:

...the share of America’s violence problem (excluding suicide) that is explainable by diseases like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder is tiny. If you were to suddenly cure schizophrenia, bipolar, and depression overnight, violent crime in the US would fall by only 4 percent, according to an estimate from Duke University professor Jeffrey Swanson, a sociologist and psychiatric epidemiologist who studies the relationship between violence and mental illness....Mentally ill people are far, far likelier to be the victims of violence (including violence committed by police) than the perpetrators.

It's a good read in its entirety though.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...1T5OHvRnUDoepA

[Kobe]

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Yeah they (literally everyone, the media, LE, general population) really need to use the FBI term of "active shooter incidents" because it is far more specific: "...exclude(s) drug or gang violence and “accidental discharges of a gun.” It says an “active shooter is an individual actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a populated area.”"

Came across this Vox article this morning discussing mental illness and gun violence; one prof's estimation:



It's a good read in its entirety though.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...1T5OHvRnUDoepA

I'm going to try and break down all the statistics when I get a chance but this has some good information

2019: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...States_in_2019

2018: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...States_in_2018


I'd like to compare it to the NRA and the contributions they do to have such a big word in this.

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/sum...?id=d000000082

Learned there is no age req to be part of the NRA and there is around 5 million US citizens being part of it.

Just things like this really piss me off: https://www.motherjones.com/politics...urchase-a-gun/

I can't confirm this is 100% not a fully reliable source but will look for more information.

People should do their own statistics or use facebook as a means to speak out and share a post, i'm debating creating one and trying to make it go viral as I'm not in the states, less likely to be murdered by the NRA..

Showing how it costs $31,000 on average per inmate a year on average in the US to keep in prison and calculate how many are actually now in prison vs killed by police.. ETC will be a bit of work, but I think the final numbers will be very interesting.

[370Z]

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Again as I've asked before - anyone know if actual gun deaths per capita in America rising?

Sadly with 300,000,000 people, nothing like this is unusual.

I've never seen this happen in China. They do have mass stabbings, but guess what, people don't die.

[pheoxs]

Didn't really find any stats for gun death per capita but this infographic is quite interesting.

Homicides are taken here to include murder and manslaughter. The FBI separates statistics for what it calls justifiable homicide, which includes the killing of a criminal by a police officer or private citizen in certain circumstances, which are not included.

[revelations]

^ I would be careful of stats like that are small sample size and not taken even in the same year.

Having said that, doing a little digging I found that over all gun violence in America (from 1980 - present day) has decreased, and also has remained fairly constant since the turn of the millennium.

Also the number of 'mass shooting' events (not necessarily deaths) from 1982 - 2014 has definitely increased in America.


What I was not prepared was to see that in a 6 year sample of mass shooting DEATHS per capita, Americans were not even in the top 10.




(Mass public shootings – defined as four or more people killed in a public place, and not in the course of committing another crime, and not involving struggles over sovereignty. )

A country like Finland, with arms ownership by the population ranging around 30% (like Canada) has a higher rate of mass shooting events deaths per capita than America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estima...ita_by_country

America, with 120% of the country armed (including automatic weapons) would have been EXPECTED to be much higher.

https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-th...ass-shootings/


______________________________________________________________________________________________________
TDLR - American mass shooting events have been on the rise, but the actual gun deaths has been decreasing long term.

With American gun ownership per capita in the 120% level (20% more guns than the entire population) one would have expected the per capita mass shooting deaths to reflect this high number - but thats not the case at all.

[Kobe]

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^ I would be careful of stats like that are small sample size and not taken even in the same year.

Having said that, doing a little digging I found that over all gun violence in America (from 1980 - present day) has decreased, and also has remained fairly constant since the turn of the millennium.

Also the number of 'mass shooting' events (not necessarily deaths) from 1982 - 2014 has definitely increased in America.


What I was not prepared was to see that in a 6 year sample of mass shooting DEATHS per capita, Americans were not even in the top 10.




(Mass public shootings – defined as four or more people killed in a public place, and not in the course of committing another crime, and not involving struggles over sovereignty. )

A country like Finland, with arms ownership by the population ranging around 30% (like Canada) has a higher rate of mass shooting events deaths per capita than America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estima...ita_by_country

America, with 120% of the country armed (including automatic weapons) would have been EXPECTED to be much higher.

https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-th...ass-shootings/


______________________________________________________________________________________________________
TDLR - American mass shooting events have been on the rise, but the actual gun deaths has been decreasing long term.

With American gun ownership per capita in the 120% level (20% more guns than the entire population) one would have expected the per capita mass shooting deaths to reflect this high number - but thats not the case at all.

I wonder what the statistics are though if you were to seperate the male and female population and exclude jail population from national population..It seems 99% (If not all) are male shooters? from the stars between 18-45 is the age as well..

[revelations]

Thats another question altogether.

What I would like to see is gun ownership correlated to gun deaths, by country.

Ie. America, with 120 guns ownership per 100 people should NATURALLY have, BY FAR the highest gun violence per capita.

The #2 country (Falklands, 63guns/100) should be dropped as it has 3000 people.

The #3 country, Yemen has a paltry 55 guns per 100.

[sabad66]

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^ I would be careful of stats like that are small sample size and not taken even in the same year.

Having said that, doing a little digging I found that over all gun violence in America (from 1980 - present day) has decreased, and also has remained fairly constant since the turn of the millennium.

Also the number of 'mass shooting' events (not necessarily deaths) from 1982 - 2014 has definitely increased in America.


What I was not prepared was to see that in a 6 year sample of mass shooting DEATHS per capita, Americans were not even in the top 10.




(Mass public shootings – defined as four or more people killed in a public place, and not in the course of committing another crime, and not involving struggles over sovereignty. )

A country like Finland, with arms ownership by the population ranging around 30% (like Canada) has a higher rate of mass shooting events deaths per capita than America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estima...ita_by_country

America, with 120% of the country armed (including automatic weapons) would have been EXPECTED to be much higher.

https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-th...ass-shootings/


______________________________________________________________________________________________________
TDLR - American mass shooting events have been on the rise, but the actual gun deaths has been decreasing long term.

With American gun ownership per capita in the 120% level (20% more guns than the entire population) one would have expected the per capita mass shooting deaths to reflect this high number - but thats not the case at all.

“I would be careful of stats that are small sample sizes”

Then goes on to imply Finland has more mass shootings than the US based on some arbitrary 5 year datapoint

Oh man the mental gymnastics that some people do

[rage2]

Chicago rarely gets mentioned in the news these days now that mass shootings are pretty much the norm there. Or maybe because it’s 96% non white victims.

https://heyjackass.com/

It’s actually a pretty entertaining read, as they keep stats on shot in the ass and shot in the junk.

[revelations]

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“I would be careful of stats that are small sample sizes”

Then goes on to imply Finland has more mass shootings than the US based on some arbitrary 5 year datapoint

Oh man the mental gymnastics that some people do

Thats funny, nice try. Completely missed the point.

Taking random samples from random years, then putting them side by side, and claiming this as 'proof' is complete horseshit - and is typical of what the mass media does on a regular basis.

[revelations]

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Chicago rarely gets mentioned in the news these days now that mass shootings are pretty much the norm there. Or maybe because it’s 96% non white victims.

https://heyjackass.com/

It’s actually a pretty entertaining read, as they keep stats on shot in the ass and shot in the junk.

If the Chicago debacle is taken as 'course of committing another crime' then they dont count it as a mass shooting/killing. It falls into general gun violence/death, which the stats show that in America as a whole, has been pretty steady the last 20 years.

[pheoxs]

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^ I would be careful of stats like that are small sample size and not taken even in the same year.

Having said that, doing a little digging I found that over all gun violence in America (from 1980 - present day) has decreased, and also has remained fairly constant since the turn of the millennium.

Also the number of 'mass shooting' events (not necessarily deaths) from 1982 - 2014 has definitely increased in America.


What I was not prepared was to see that in a 6 year sample of mass shooting DEATHS per capita, Americans were not even in the top 10.




(Mass public shootings – defined as four or more people killed in a public place, and not in the course of committing another crime, and not involving struggles over sovereignty. )

A country like Finland, with arms ownership by the population ranging around 30% (like Canada) has a higher rate of mass shooting events deaths per capita than America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estima...ita_by_country

America, with 120% of the country armed (including automatic weapons) would have been EXPECTED to be much higher.

https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-th...ass-shootings/


______________________________________________________________________________________________________
TDLR - American mass shooting events have been on the rise, but the actual gun deaths has been decreasing long term.

With American gun ownership per capita in the 120% level (20% more guns than the entire population) one would have expected the per capita mass shooting deaths to reflect this high number - but thats not the case at all.

Something doesn’t seem right in that picture. From another wiki page there have been 246 deaths so far in 2019 from mass shootings in the US (wounded is 950). That would give over 1 death per million people per year where your picture claims less than 0.1.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...States_in_2019

[revelations]

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Something doesn’t seem right in that picture. From another wiki page there have been 246 deaths so far in 2019 from mass shootings in the US (wounded is 950). That would give over 1 death per million people per year where your picture claims less than 0.1.

Um, the study I linked referenced a 5 year period from 2009 -2015.

[rage2]

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If the Chicago debacle is taken as 'course of committing another crime' then they dont count it as a mass shooting/killing. It falls into general gun violence/death, which the stats show that in America as a whole, has been pretty steady the last 20 years.

It’s not. They’re all classified as mass shootings. Drivebys, disagreements, etc. Just fighting, not robberies or anything like that.

[Mitsu3000gt]

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It’s not. They’re all classified as mass shootings. Drivebys, disagreements, etc. Just fighting, not robberies or anything like that.

School shootings are classified in a similarly ridiculous manner, for example even someone who shoots themselves in an abandoned school parking lot is recorded as a "school shooting" to feed the media frenzy. Same with accidental weapon discharge resulting in zero injuries.

[revelations]

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It’s not. They’re all classified as mass shootings. Drivebys, disagreements, etc. Just fighting, not robberies or anything like that.

In that case, the stats I linked are showing something different - mass shootings OTHER THAN in the course of crime.

The FBI also defines mass killings in the same manner.

"Mass public shootings – defined as four or more people killed in a public place, and not in the course of committing another crime, and not involving struggles over sovereignty."



--------------------

Having said all that, my stats question is about TOTAL gun violence in a country per capita, adjusted to the % of gun ownership. Take ALL the firearm deaths.

To me that says a lot more about the potential for deadly violence in a country. A country that has more weapons than people is EXPECTED to have more gun deaths.

[pheoxs]

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Um, the study I linked referenced a 5 year period from 2009 -2015.

Your own words:

Having said that, doing a little digging I found that over all gun violence in America (from 1980 - present day) has decreased, and also has remained fairly constant since the turn of the millennium.

And yet 2019 numbers are over 10x the fatalities that your picture shows. Don't try to spin that its decreasing to present day while using graphics with cherry picked years. 2016 was a significant year with over twice as many deaths as prior years and it continues to increase since then.

[revelations]

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Your own words:


And yet 2019 numbers are over 10x the fatalities that your picture shows. Don't try to spin that its decreasing to present day while using graphics with cherry picked years. 2016 was a significant year with over twice as many deaths as prior years and it continues to increase since then.

You are getting the statements confused because I am getting the years messed up.

Here is the stat that was referenced from 1980-2010 (finally found a image to link) in the original text.





Im after all the info that I can find. What I dont like is both sides choosing which narrative to suit their agenda.

For ex. a Vox article from 2018 references the above chart and claims GUN VIOLENCE IS DOWN (ignoring 8 years of data).

https://www.vox.com/2015/10/1/180004...icides-decline

Honestly, even with the 1980-2010 numbers - I was surprised to find a decrease/steady state of any kind.

________________________________________________________________________________________________

Question:

Should we count suicides by gun, as gun violence causing death?

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Also, with respect to the original post I made, here is a chart with the time between mass shootings:

Also the number of 'mass shooting' events (not necessarily deaths) from 1982 - 2014 has definitely increased in America.

[killramos]

I wonder how that timeline plot compares with guns per capita.

[95EagleAWD]

Of course you should count suicides as a gun death. Those are dead people.

And if they didn’t have access to a gun, some stats say they may be alive, since suicide with a gun is way more likely to kill you than any other attempt.

And then most of those that survive a suicide attempt, don’t try it again.