Out of Season Winter Tires? Studs or not?

[zhao]

Tires are trade offs. The best studded tire still has decreased clear pavement grip because of those studs.

[rage2]

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I guess I’m in the opposite boat as some of you, I was a studded convert but after sampling the most recent performance winters I likely will go to performance winters on at least one of my vehicles, I was really impressed with their grip on packed snow and found my cheap studded winters didn’t give me any extra confidence or feel much better grip wise in probably 80% of situations.

I’m also anti Hakka/XI3, I really don’t like those tires, how they handle and their characteristics and don’t understand why so many people love them.

What performance winter are you using?

I have my GLA on Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D, while the B250 is on Hakka 8's, and there is no comparison at all in grip levels even though the Hakka 8's are 3 years old and studs pretty worn. Even on packed snow, the GLA gets destroyed everywhere. Only time they're close is in slush, and of course the Dunlops being way better in the dry.

Driving the Hakka 8's in some pretty treacherous ice conditions this winter, the driving characteristics are pretty hilarious. There's more grip on cold icy roads than on dry roads at highway speeds. I'd start getting understeer at 150km/h curves on ice, while dry roads they give up at 130km/h.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[eblend]

Wow thanks for all the replies guys. Think I am settled on the Studded tires. Does it make sense buying them in the summer time for the next winter, or just buy em in the fall?

[tirebob]

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Wow thanks for all the replies guys. Think I am settled on the Studded tires. Does it make sense buying them in the summer time for the next winter, or just buy em in the fall?

Unless a tire store is sitting on inventory they want to move before next winter, tire prices are usually priced best on season rather than off season, but there always some exceptions depending what size you need etc.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

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That's why you buy quality studded winters instead of cheap ones. You're complaint is akin to driving on OEM "performance" tires and complaining they don't handle as well on the track as ACTUAL performance tires.

I’ve had Hakka 8s and multiple sets of XI3 as well, neither were any better in my opinion. I’m just comparing my most recent set using cheaper tires with longer studs. I’ve probably owned and tested at least 6 or 7 different winter tires the past few years alone, and many more summer tires. All I’m stating is my opinion.

[max_boost]

Been saying it for many years but next winter I am getting studded winter tires.

[gmc72]

In all my years of running winters, the only time I felt that studded tires made a difference was when I had my 2wd truck. My Fit (now my ex-Fit) ran Nokian's for the past 8 years (2 sets) and my Murano has run the Toyo Observe's for the past 3 years. Never had an issue getting stuck, but I will admit that the Fit did spin when starting from a light quite a bit, but I think that was due to the light weight of the vehicle. Next winter I will be getting studless tires for my BMW. I used to stud tires way back, just out of high school, and while I'm sure that the newer ones are better, I wouldn't trust them without the studs. They are designed to work with the studs, but are basically all seasons without them.

That's my 2 cents worth.

[ExtraSlow]

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i will admit that the fit did spin when starting from a light quite a bit, but i think that was due to the instant and savage power delivery of the vehicle.

ftfy

[gmc72]

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ftfy

HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Abeo]

I like studs for the simple fact that they still develop grip when sliding or spinning. My previous hankook ipike and general altimax studded tires were quiet, my current firestone winterforce are super noisy... so I think it comes down to the tire

+1 for tirebob. He can get Motegi too.

[Chester]

I had studded hakks on my sti last winter and they were great when there was packed snow and ice, but in the dry, the car liked to slide around corners. Before the studded hakks, I ran Federal Himalayas on a couple sti's from Bob for 3 years with no problems, although, near the end of their life, they were a little sketchy. I have non-studded toyo's on my Jeep and they still work great; taken them on the highway a bunch this winter and they performed just fine. With my OCD, it drove me nuts driving on dry pavement with studs, I would constantly think they're being prematurely worn, and constantly check them. Because of this, I'm going to stick to studless in the future.

[rage2]

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With my OCD, it drove me nuts driving on dry pavement with studs, I would constantly think they're being prematurely worn, and constantly check them.

Had the same problem. The Hakka 8's barely generated any road noise in the dry by the 3rd year, so thought the studs were toast. I can feel that there's only a bit of a nub left on them. But drove them through pure ice on the roads, and they were magnificent. Definitely keeping the gf's car on studded tires. I still like my performance winters on my car, didn't struggle at all this year in the snow/ice, just not as fast. The dry traction is worth it.

Any good comparisons out there of performance winters? Wouldn't hurt to have more snow/ice grip than my current Dunlop 3D Winter Sports.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

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Had the same problem. The Hakka 8's barely generated any road noise in the dry by the 3rd year, so thought the studs were toast. I can feel that there's only a bit of a nub left on them. But drove them through pure ice on the roads, and they were magnificent. Definitely keeping the gf's car on studded tires. I still like my performance winters on my car, didn't struggle at all this year in the snow/ice, just not as fast. The dry traction is worth it.

Any good comparisons out there of performance winters? Wouldn't hurt to have more snow/ice grip than my current Dunlop 3D Winter Sports.

Sampled various Pirelli Sottozero on various models and like them more than the PA4, they felt like they had better feedback and slightly less squish in the dry. I think if I don’t find myself a daily driver by winter I will likely go with the Sottozero.

[rage2]

But the Pirelli Sottozero's are so fucking bad in snow and ice. Really felt more like an all season than a performance winter.

[killramos]

Do you have the same opinion of performance winters if you weren’t a 4matic convert rage?

The performance winters on my 2 were straight awful, no better really than the pirelli all seasons I have on my ford this year. Even on that car with its lower power the tires were still completely useless in dry.

I feel like the only way the C63 will be useable is with studs.

[rage2]

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Do you have the same opinion of performance winters if you weren’t a 4matic convert rage?

The performance winters on my 2 were straight awful, no better really than the pirelli all seasons I have on my ford this year. Even on that car with its lower power the tires were still completely useless in dry.

I feel like the only way the C63 will be useable is with studs.

I would yea. Last RWD performance winter shod car I had was the C63 on Hankook Icebear's. It was acceptable in terms of safety when it comes to cornering, emergency maneuvers and braking, only complaint was that it was shit slow off the line, and cars would get ahead of me off a stop and block on icy intersections. AWD really just fixed that part of my complaint. Your suspension has a lot to do with how shitty it is for straight line grip too, so it's hard to compare performance winters on a C63 vs all seasons on a Ford whatever (assuming it's not a GT haha). You have to compare it on the same car. A C63 with all seasons was downright dangerous to drive, and I know what I'm doing behind the wheel.

I've driven FWD and RWD cars with studs, and yea, the off the line problem is gone, and you've got boatloads of grip everywhere, so much that it feels a bit over the top trying to get it sideways around a corner at what feels like WRC speeds. Therefore I still find Performance Winters to be the best Calgary compromise. Attainable yet safe grip limits in all winter conditions, from dry to ice.

With that said, on the really bad days, I'll take the B250 on Hakka 8's out and be completely oblivious to road conditions. It's like driving in the rain.

[killramos]

I’m concerned about the rear digging in through the snow down to the ice and getting stuck parking. That and I found performance winters made crossing traffic on a left turn near impossible to perform safely if there was any amount of ice. Which on those intersections there of course always was.

I think the level of torque and the “relative” jerkiness of the MCT will make getting stuck that much easier in the C63. Though in theory the diff will help a ton.

My ford is an 07 V6 mustang fwiw, which is why I compare it to my 2 series.

Really bad days I’m a 5 minute bus ride to work or I take the Lexus.

[rage2]

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I’m concerned about the rear digging in through the snow down to the ice and getting stuck parking. That and I found performance winters made crossing traffic on a left turn near impossible to perform safely if there was any amount of ice. Which on those intersections there of course always was.

Yup, soft snow or slush will definitely be challenging in a parking spot. I had that problem in the C63 as well. Studs won't help you much there either, you'll dig into ice, get some grip, only to hit that same snow/slush again and drop back into your newly created rut.

Left turns, I still have that problem in the GLA. Fucking turbo lag haha.

[16hypen3sp]

I rocked the Avalanche Extreme studded and I wasn't too impressed. I was sliding around everywhere. Brand new tires too. That was on my Kia before I sold it.

I got my gf the Hakka 8's with the studs. Those tires look and sound like they belong on a tank! She has been very happy with them the entire season. They sure beat the fuck out of my driveway tho.