"Instant" on demand hot water units... how long to get hot water?

[88CRX]

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I have a tank.

OK. And are you at a full minute to get hot water after motion is detected and you pump kicks on or a full minute after you turn the tap on and let it warm up?

[kenny]

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OK. And are you at a full minute to get hot water after motion is detected and you pump kicks on or a full minute after you turn the tap on and let it warm up?

One minute from motion/pump activation for our ensuite taps.

[mr2mike]

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Is that major issue with a water softener as well?

Water Softner should fix that de-scaling. However, I know of some condos that only have the tankless. Seemed like a good idea at first.

[jwslam]

So without a dedicated return line, are there any negative effects when the pump is running and I open a cold water tap?

[suntan]

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So without a dedicated return line, are there any negative effects when the pump is running and I open a cold water tap?

Yes. Since hot water is mixing with the cold line, the water will be warm initially.

[speedog]

Could it be as simple as smaller house equates to shorter runs? All of our hot water runs are easily under 20 feet, takes virtually no time to get hot water at any tap, bungalow for the win.

[88CRX]

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Could it be as simple as smaller house equates to shorter runs? All of our hot water runs are easily under 20 feet, takes virtually no time to get hot water at any tap, bungalow for the win.

Good point... We'll demo the second floor of our house!

Classic Sdog.

[speedog]

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Good point... We'll demo the second floor of our house!

Classic Sdog.

Whatever, many people live in a home that has many more square feet than they really need which will equate to linger runs. Now I'll grant you that bungalows just are not a thing anymore and even less so in the burbs but they do have their advantages.

[killramos]

This is the same issue as HVAC in new bigger taller homes. One utility room hidden off in a convenient basement corner really isn't sufficient without expensive mitigation solutions put in place.

Problem would be easily solved with a second hot water heater upstairs to shorten the runs.

None of this shit was an issue with a central utility room in older bungalows, which used to be the standard fare. Higher density requirements mean building up and more compact and that comes with constraints. This basically equates to a design flaw that people are seldom willing to pay to deal with on spec homes.

speedog isn't wrong.

[speedog]

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This is the same issue as HVAC in new bigger taller homes. One utility room hidden off in a convenient basement corner really isn't sufficient without expensive mitigation solutions put in place.

Problem would be easily solved with a second hot water heater upstairs to shorten the runs.

None of this shit was an issue with a central utility room in older bungalows, which used to be the standard fare. Higher density requirements mean building up and more compact and that comes with constraints. This basically equates to a design flaw that people are seldom willing to pay to deal with on spec homes.

speedog isn't wrong.

Even in non spec homes, it would be very rare to find a secondary water heater or furnace. Due to my current profession, I have been in several hundred new homes over the past few years and I can count on one finger the number of homes that had a secondary water heater. Secondary furnaces, only once as well and in the same home.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Seems to me, the secondary water heater should be the electric instant one and it should be in the en suite.

Edit - I showered every day in Asia with a little wall mounted electric water heater and never got electrocuted. Worked great. Why can't we just have those?

[speedog]

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Seems to me, the secondary water heater should be the electric instant one and it should be in the en suite.

Edit - I showered every day in Asia with a little wall mounted electric water heater and never got electrocuted. Worked great. Why can't we just have those?

It is often very odd where someone will scrimp to save a few bucks when building a home, appearances almost always win out over practical and very nice to have features like a secondary water heater. Floating shelves, it's absolutely amazing how many of these I've installed - recently I did a cabinet install at a new home in Elbow Valley which had what I would consider a barely upgraded from base level kitchen, the door hinges and drawer slides were absolutely the lowest grade available in a home that is probably worth north of $1.5 million. Why wouldn't they have spent the extra $4-600 to have top notch slow close hinges and self closing slides, I just don't get it.

[FixedGear]

I'm not an expert, but I'd think this has more to do with the plumbing (water velocity, distance from heater, etc) than the heater. I used to have on demand water heater and it worked very fast. Now I'm in a small 2 br house built in the 1930s, with a giant hot water tank, and it takes 2-3 minutes to get hot water in the shower which is literally 10 ft from the water heater.

[rage2]

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Edit - I showered every day in Asia with a little wall mounted electric water heater and never got electrocuted. Worked great. Why can't we just have those?

Fuck do I hate those things. Zero water pressure.

[JRSC00LUDE]

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Fuck do I hate those things. Zero water pressure.

But they work was the point haha, I'm sure there's a bigger/better one than the typical!

[88CRX]

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I'm not an expert, but I'd think this has more to do with the plumbing (water velocity, distance from heater, etc) than the heater. I used to have on demand water heater and it worked very fast. Now I'm in a small 2 br house built in the 1930s, with a giant hot water tank, and it takes 2-3 minutes to get hot water in the shower which is literally 10 ft from the water heater.

Yea I'll have to time the sink right above the mech room vs the furthest ensuite sink and see if its a run length issue or on-demand unit issue.

If all else fails we'll find a bungalow to purchase.

[jwslam]

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So without a dedicated return line, are there any negative effects when the pump is running and I open a cold water tap?

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Yes. Since hot water is mixing with the cold line, the water will be warm initially.

I meant wrt the hydraulics since the pump is still pushing and the CW line now is reversing flow.

[cycosis]

Mine is great, got it standard with my jayman home. There’s the odd time where it takes a little bit to get warm but most of the time it’s pretty quic and there is never temperature fluctuation.

[Maxt]

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It is often very odd where someone will scrimp to save a few bucks when building a home, appearances almost always win out over practical and very nice to have features like a secondary water heater. Floating shelves, it's absolutely amazing how many of these I've installed - recently I did a cabinet install at a new home in Elbow Valley which had what I would consider a barely upgraded from base level kitchen, the door hinges and drawer slides were absolutely the lowest grade available in a home that is probably worth north of $1.5 million. Why wouldn't they have spent the extra $4-600 to have top notch slow close hinges and self closing slides, I just don't get it.

Starter mansions... Its all about building as much finished square feet for a certain budget... My latest house is like this, huge but built with some of the cheapest shit possible which I am slowly upgrading, as opposed to my old house which was only 1200 sq ft, but was built with some of the best materials of the time...
Here's Rinnai's add a loop system with thermal valve control so its not on, all the time.
https://www.rinnai.ca/gas-water-heat...tion-solutions
The other factor that adds to the slow times is the low flow fixtures. At one commercial place that has one, it was taking 2-3 minutes in the morning to get water back to their staff sink, so I drilled the holes out in their faucet aerator, its under a minute now. so what you save in gas, you can now spend on water