No calculator math exams

[jwslam]

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I've pretty much not used Chinese 10k, 100m bases for a while now. That shit's in English with the thousand, million, billion base. Lots of language translation in my head working with big numbers.

So @rage2 does math in Chinese, but not baller math...

[J-hop]

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Someone must have been looking at the comment sections on all those stupid Facebook posts where the % of people that can't do simple BEDMAS operations is unbelievable and thus we now have simple tests for basic skills sans Ti-83 haha

Those are the best. Then you get two idiots arguing BEDMAS vs BEMDAS vs BEDMSA vs BEMDSA not realizing MD and SA don’t have an order of priority beyond left to right...

That is why you need these basic math tests....

[300havoc]

I recently did Pure math 30 upgrading at Sait, and I wasn't allowed to use a calculator even for the graphing. I ended up doing better on that class than when I took it in high school. Also, introductory Calculus in university I wasn't allowed to use a calculator either, but because I already could see what the graphs looked like in my head from the upgrading, it made it easier. That being said, I am also bad at math generally.

[ercchry]

first class i wasnt allowed a calculator (of any sort) was linear algebra in uni... really wish there was more no calculator exams earlier in life after taking that course

[Gestalt]

Canadian students are some of the best in the world. At the last OECD PISA benchmark, Canadian 15-year-old students placed 5th in Collaborative skills, tied in 2nd place with Hong Kong for reading, 7th in Science, and 10th in Math.

Greater focus is being given to core competencies, such as critical thinking, problem-solving, collaboration, communication, managing information, global citizenship, and creativity and innovation etc, and less to rote multiplication tables as an example.

My wife teaches grade 9, and even though some of the countries beat us on what they now refer to rote skills, or "drill and kill" type problems, the Canadian system has had a major re-focus toward inquiry-based Math and Science to increase problem-solving, critical thinking and depth of conceptual understanding, including making cross disciplinary connections. We have embraced not only STEM, but also STSE, and Synthesis Science. "New Math" allows students a deeper understanding of what math is and means. Last year alone, various Canadian school boards played host to observers from at least 3 different countries specifically for Math and Science to try and understand how their students beat ours in rote math, yet ours have superior problem solving and cross topic flexibility, word problem and application skills.

She does feel that once they grasp these concepts, there could be more traditional learning to speed up mental processes. However, most school boards are also moving away from traditional worksheets.

[rage2]

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Canadian students are some of the best in the world. At the last OECD PISA benchmark, Canadian 15-year-old students placed 5th in Collaborative skills, tied in 2nd place with Hong Kong for reading, 7th in Science, and 10th in Math.

Greater focus is being given to core competencies, such as critical thinking, problem-solving, collaboration, communication, managing information, global citizenship, and creativity and innovation etc, and less to rote multiplication tables as an example.

My wife teaches grade 9, and even though some of the countries beat us on what they now refer to rote skills, or "drill and kill" type problems, the Canadian system has had a major re-focus toward inquiry-based Math and Science to increase problem-solving, critical thinking and depth of conceptual understanding, including making cross disciplinary connections. We have embraced not only STEM, but also STSE, and Synthesis Science. "New Math" allows students a deeper understanding of what math is and means. Last year alone, various Canadian school boards played host to observers from at least 3 different countries specifically for Math and Science to try and understand how their students beat ours in rote math, yet ours have superior problem solving and cross topic flexibility, word problem and application skills.

She does feel that once they grasp these concepts, there could be more traditional learning to speed up mental processes. However, most school boards are also moving away from traditional worksheets.

This explains a lot.

[suntan]

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Honestly I did not know this was a thing, the use of calculators for certain types of questions on math exams in elementary and junior high. This Calgary SUN news article talks about the provincial government bringing back a non-calculator section on grade nine provincial math exams and when I looked at the example questions, I can say that I am surprised that grade nine kids would need a calculator to do the example questions provided in that news article...

My kid is in grade 6 right now. They don't use calculators. Good jorb everybody.

[suntan]

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This explains a lot.

There is no value in having your kid do MOTS in school. If your kid needs more practice, do it at home. You can get a zillion worksheets for free on the internet.

But most parents are lazy dipshits.

[J-hop]

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This explains a lot.

I’m going to go out on a limb and say gestalts wife probably wrote that post. Zero trolling, well thought out, no obvious spelling mistakes haha

[kertejud2]

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I haven't done any research on the topic, so forgive the potentially stupid question... are they teaching that ridiculous new math at private schools these days as well?

Depends on the school, but some started way before the public system ever did. Or at least certainly followed the underlying idea of new math about there being multiple pathways to find an answer, it's more about understanding the method than getting the right answer, etc. Others will only do what it takes to get the highest marks on the Diplomas, so if new math isn't a part of the Diploma they won't teach it. If it is, they will teach the hell out of it .

[HiTempguy1]

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If your kid needs more practice, do it at home.

Now, I'm not a parent (thank christ for both myself and the kid). However, having talked with my own father about stuff like this, he completely agrees that as a young kid, a short time span is an eternity even into middle school. Sure, you should have some discipline, but seriously.

After spending 7-8 hours in school in a day, the last god damn thing someone needs to do is MORE after school. Maybe don't waste kids time with stupid bullshit like CALM (or whatever it is called) and crappy "Foods" courses and shit. Obviously there needs to be teaching outside of the classroom, but at what point does it end? Should we all just raise our kids like the Chinese do and have them just do schooling constantly all their lives?

The reason school is such a pile of f*&k to begin with is because a lot of parents don't do shit for their kids, so the whole class is taught to the lowest common denominator.

I have zero problem with the education I received growing up. It didn't prevent me from doing (sort of) what I wanted. Money prevented me from doing that, and not wanting to be in post secondary for 6 years stressed about money. Most kids who did similar in school went onto post secondary and also did well. So wtf has changed that required a change?

The fact is that rote memorization WORKS. You're not trying to produce the next Einstein, you are trying to produce kids who are useful to the general public. If you want to be the next Einstein, you are going to have a gift for it, and you will pursue that avenue yourself through post secondary.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[suntan]

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Now, I'm not a parent (thank christ for both myself and the kid). However, having talked with my own father about stuff like this, he completely agrees that as a young kid, a short time span is an eternity even into middle school. Sure, you should have some discipline, but seriously.

After spending 7-8 hours in school in a day, the last god damn thing someone needs to do is MORE after school. Maybe don't waste kids time with stupid bullshit like CALM (or whatever it is called) and crappy "Foods" courses and shit. Obviously there needs to be teaching outside of the classroom, but at what point does it end? Should we all just raise our kids like the Chinese do and have them just do schooling constantly all their lives?

The reason school is such a pile of f*&k to begin with is because a lot of parents don't do shit for their kids, so the whole class is taught to the lowest common denominator.

I have zero problem with the education I received growing up. It didn't prevent me from doing (sort of) what I wanted. Money prevented me from doing that, and not wanting to be in post secondary for 6 years stressed about money. Most kids who did similar in school went onto post secondary and also did well. So wtf has changed that required a change?

The fact is that rote memorization WORKS. You're not trying to produce the next Einstein, you are trying to produce kids who are useful to the general public. If you want to be the next Einstein, you are going to have a gift for it, and you will pursue that avenue yourself through post secondary.

Yeah, you don't have kids, and it shows.

This isn't five hours of multiplication every night. This would be 15-30 minutes worth for a few days. After that if your kid is still having trouble remembering what the fuck 9X9 is, they have another deeper issue (often, it's dyscalcula).

Also elementary and middle school isn't 7-8 hours. It's about 5.5 hours of instruction per day. With lots of days off.

Rote memorization doesn't work. One of the biggest problems post-secondary institutions keep facing are students that have zero understanding of any subject. I realize you're a hermit at work, but I see this all the time at workplaces too. Fucking dumbasses that have zero understanding beyond what they need to know to barely keep a paycheque. You should be happy about that, it gives governments good excuses as to why they need things like regulations.

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Depends on the school, but some started way before the public system ever did. Or at least certainly followed the underlying idea of new math about there being multiple pathways to find an answer, it's more about understanding the method than getting the right answer, etc. Others will only do what it takes to get the highest marks on the Diplomas, so if new math isn't a part of the Diploma they won't teach it. If it is, they will teach the hell out of it .

All schools in Alberta must follow the APOS at the bare minimum.

[ercchry]

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I've noticed kind of an anti-technology movement in school over the past 15 years. Each time I do a course, my calculator gets downgraded. When I was in high school, we used Ti-85's. I upgraded at Mt. Royal in the early 200's, I was restricted to the more lowely Ti-83, similar story for when I upgraded at Chinook. Then when I was taking math at Athabasca, they made me buy a TI-36X.... which is really low tech. Now at BCIT, they made me do all of my courses with a Sharp El-520X. This is the shittiest low tech calculator ever made. I feel like using an abacus would be better. It doesn't suprise me at all that they are talking about no calculators. Next it will be math tests in caves using by firelight or something.

This week I was doing a math exam, I didn't even touch my calculator until at least halfway through it

In high school I use to build programs to solve problems on my ti... super quick to check answers... plus I could open up the code and use it to “show work” ...good old calculator swap after teachers cleared them before exams and gtg... did I learn more? Less? Who knows... but I sure did save a lot of time on studying

Also a life skill I took into my career... autolisp all the things, moar time for interwebz!

[Gestalt]

The ones that think of it as 9 short of 9 groups of 10 seem to be more successful. Then if they need to multiply 25x32 its easy to get that its just 75x10+50.

There really is no homework anymore. If they want to spend 20 minutes watching Khan Academy videos, that's ok.

There are many students that can solve equations very well, but give a real life problem, and they can't flesh out the equation necessary to solve it.

As for teaching to the lowest common denominator. That can be a problem (I think lowered expectations is the more salient culprit) but training and pd has a profound focus on UBD (Understanding by Design) and UDL (Universal Design for Learning) principles, the core premise is that designing teaching for the edges is more effective for everyone, than the old way if teaching to the average.

Anecdotally, the US military design for cockpits is used as an example of modern teaching principles. https://www.thestar.com/news/insight...-averages.html

[JRSC00LUDE]

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I’m going to go out on a limb and say gestalts wife probably wrote that post. Zero trolling, well thought out, no obvious spelling mistakes haha

I'm going to go out on a limb and say there's no wife. Or boss. Or anything. Just 100% troll.

[msommers]

MCAT is all without a calculator, mostly x 10^x type stuff. The Japanese learn math so differently, seemed so bizarre!

[Gestalt]

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I'm going to go out on a limb and say there's no wife. Or boss. Or anything. Just 100% troll.

Anything to contribute, or just same old pot?

[jwslam]

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Now at BCIT, they made me do all of my courses with a Sharp El-520X. This is the shittiest low tech calculator ever made. I feel like using an abacus would be better.

You haven't seen the Schulich School of Engineering sanctioned calculator yet.
https://www.calgarybookstore.ca/shop...oduct_list.asp

[killramos]

I got mad when I had to buy a BAII for a course

This is my go to when I’m allowed to use it

Using it is a dream!