Sleep Awareness

[msommers]

It was very fortuitous that a friend recommended this podcast with Joe Rogan who was interviewing Dr. Matthew Walker regarding all the things sleep related. This podcast completely changed the way I think about sleep, but completely revamped how much more I value sleep for my personal health, mentally and physically, and ageing.

Given the knowledge Dr. Walker shared, it feels irresponsible not to pass this along.

http://podcasts.joerogan.net/podcasts/matthew-walker

While I really recommend listening to the whole session for context and completeness, here is a well-written synopysis of some key highlights for "skimming":

http://podcastnotes.org/2018/04/29/why-we-sleep/

Crazy stats like:

• Short sleep predicts all cause mortality
  
• If you’re getting 6 hours of sleep or less, your time to physical exhaustion drops by up to 30%
  
• Residents working a 30 hours shift are 460% more likely to make diagnostic errors in the intensive care unit, relative to when they’re working 16 hours
  
• One study sleep deprived individuals for one night (to 4 hours of sleep) – they experienced a 70% reduction in critical anti cancer fighting cells
  
• Insufficient sleeps is the most significant lifestyle factor for determining whether or not you’ll develop Alzheimer’s Disease
  - One study documented a school which shifted school start times from 7:35am to 8:55am – this resulted in 70% reduction in car crashes the following year
  - For comparison – anti lock breaks dropped accident rates 20%
  - One school shifted start times from 7:25am to 8:30am, average SAT scores rose 212 points
  
• After 20 hours of being awake, you are as physically and cognitively impaired as you would be if you were legally drunk
  - “You don’t know you’re sleep deprived, when you’re sleep deprived“

The list goes on and on...

The breadth of knowledge that Dr. Walker has on anything remotely sleep related is astonishing.

You own it to yourself to make time to this listen this podcast -- 2 hours that could, quite frankly, change your life.

[CMW403]

anti lock brakes***

I realize sleep is extremely important and a lot of the points he was making were probably true, but with the whole cancer thing, but correlation does not equal causation...

There are way too many variables at play here (age, overall mental/physical health, previous medical histories, current medical histories, medications, etc etc etc, I could list variables for days but there is not point).

Another thing that he needs to take into account is the fact that every single brain in his study achieves and maintains REM sleep faster and slower, longer and shorter than the next brain. Some people only achieve REM sleep for an hour a night when they sleep for 12 hours straight, this would cause false positives/negatives EVERYWHERE in his experiment since all of the healthy things happen during REM sleep. From what I understand about sleep (which is a lot, I have struggled with it all my life), if you aren't achieving REM sleep at some point during your "sleep", you may as well just stay awake.

Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong here but this study has more holes in it than a wheel of swiss cheese after I've put a 300 round drum clip of 7.62x39 through it fifteen times.

[max_boost]

I believe it. Sleep has been the #1 most important thing to me. To the point it probably has ruined some relationships because I put it above all else.

It all starts with a good nights rest.

[msommers]

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anti lock brakes***

I realize sleep is extremely important and a lot of the points he was making were probably true, but with the whole cancer thing, but correlation does not equal causation...

There are way too many variables at play here (age, overall mental/physical health, previous medical histories, current medical histories, medications, etc etc etc, I could list variables for days but there is not point).

Another thing that he needs to take into account is the fact that every single brain in his study achieves and maintains REM sleep faster and slower, longer and shorter than the next brain. Some people only achieve REM sleep for an hour a night when they sleep for 12 hours straight, this would cause false positives/negatives EVERYWHERE in his experiment since all of the healthy things happen during REM sleep. From what I understand about sleep (which is a lot, I have struggled with it all my life), if you aren't achieving REM sleep at some point during your "sleep", you may as well just stay awake.

Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong here but this study has more holes in it than a wheel of swiss cheese after I've put a 300 round drum clip of 7.62x39 through it fifteen times.

Before dismissing anything, do two things:

1) Understand that this podcast discussion speaks to multiple peer-reviewed studies, not a singular piece of work.

2) If you are suspect of the methodology, investigate the experiments yourself and point to why their conclusions are flawed.

Dr. Walker is incredibly accomplished (https://www.sleepdiplomat.com/professor) and founded the Center for Human Sleep Science. Moreover, the research lab has published dozens upon dozens of papers over the years particularly on sleep (https://www.humansleepscience.com/p-...-c-a-t-i-o-n-s).

All of this would strongly suggest they know how to conduct a fucking experiment.

[dirtsniffer]

I've always been a good sleeper. Usually 7 hours a night. Having a kid and being up every few hours has changed my performance significantly. I definitely know I'm not as effective at work. Critical thinking is slower. More simple mistakes. Has been obvious to me.

[CMW403]

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Before dismissing anything, do two things:

1) Understand that this podcast discussion speaks to multiple peer-reviewed studies, not a singular piece of work.

2) If you are suspect of the methodology, investigate the experiments yourself and point to why their conclusions are flawed.

Dr. Walker is incredibly accomplished (https://www.sleepdiplomat.com/professor) and founded the Center for Human Sleep Science. Moreover, the research lab has published dozens upon dozens of papers over the years particularly on sleep (https://www.humansleepscience.com/p-...-c-a-t-i-o-n-s).
All of this would strongly suggest they know how to conduct a fucking experiment.

Holy shit. I never even began to imply that these people didn't know how to conduct a "fucking" experiment, nor did I dismiss their research whatsoever, but I am definitely starting to lean that way after a response like that.

You studied the hell out of this experiment, yet it is blatantly obvious you are in serious lack of sleep.


EDIT:

1) Links to said "multiple peer reviewed" studies?

2) That is literally EXACTLY what I did. I pointed out 6/1000 flaws in their experiment

Anything else?

[msommers]

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Holy shit. I never even began to imply that these people didn't know how to conduct a "fucking" experiment, nor did I dismiss their research whatsoever, but I am definitely starting to lean that way after a response like that.

You studied the hell out of this experiment, yet it is blatantly obvious you are in serious lack of sleep.


EDIT:

1) Links to said "multiple peer reviewed" studies?

2) That is literally EXACTLY what I did. I pointed out 6/1000 flaws in their experiment

Anything else?

You came back three hours later to throw in those edits?

You are still fixated on this podcast as an "experiment", as in a singular piece of work. Please be more careful as it is a discussion about multiple studies.

1) https://www.humansleepscience.com/p-...-c-a-t-i-o-n-s

2) Read #1.

3) Which paper(s) did you have issue with?

Honestly man, I really don't understand why you feel the need to shit on my thread when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about despite 'understanding a lot about sleep' and saying things like, "since all of the healthy things happen during REM sleep". I'm sorry you have struggled with sleep-related disorders all your life and I can certainly appreciate that to be very frustrating, but please stop with this charade. If you feel their conclusions are flawed, speak to them about it.

This thread was made to share knowledge about the importance of sleep, backed by a research institution on the leading edge of sleep science!
https://www.humansleepscience.com/

[lasimmon]

This thread seems vaguely like an ad.

I sleep 7-8 hours a night without issue.

Napping on the other hand... Can't nap to save my life and I hate it.

[revelations]

The last 3-4 years I had issues falling asleep due to restless leg syndrome. Doctors were quick to push pills but I dug a little deeper. Although my blood work showed my electrolytes "normal" - apparently I was Calcium deficient because as soon as I started taking Calcium supplements, the issue went away. Whats "normal" is not specific or personal enough.

For anyone not sleeping for other reasons - try Magnesium supplements (instead of drugs). It works really well for promoting good quality sleep.

[Mitsu3000gt]

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The last 3-4 years I had issues falling asleep due to restless leg syndrome. Doctors were quick to push pills but I dug a little deeper. Although my blood work showed my electrolytes "normal" - apparently I was Calcium deficient because as soon as I started taking Calcium supplements, the issue went away. Whats "normal" is not specific or personal enough.

For anyone not sleeping for other reasons - try Magnesium supplements (instead of drugs). It works really well for promoting good quality sleep.

Thanks for posting this - I have had similar symptoms that usually occur in the morning and get worse the longer I have been in bed. Really hard to explain, almost as though I have a desire to move my legs. Kind of fees like I am tensing up my legs but without using any muscles - if that even makes sense. Kind of like a deep nerve/tendon feeling rather than anything muscular or on the surface. As soon as I am up and moving around, it is 100% gone. Maybe I will give calcium/magnesium a try.

I've been hesitant to go to a doctor so far because I can't even explain what it is, and I think I will just get drugs thrown at me. I have read that calcium supplements can be bad for your heart though.

[revelations]

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Thanks for posting this - I have had similar symptoms that usually occur in the morning and get worse the longer I have been in bed. Really hard to explain, almost as though I have a desire to move my legs. Kind of fees like I am tensing up my legs but without using any muscles - if that even makes sense. Kind of like a deep nerve/tendon feeling rather than anything muscular or on the surface. As soon as I am up and moving around, it is 100% gone. Maybe I will give calcium/magnesium a try.

I've been hesitant to go to a doctor so far because I can't even explain what it is, and I think I will just get drugs thrown at me. I have read that calcium supplements can be bad for your heart though.

It can have an effect if you have issues regulating calcium already. But for healthy, active people .... should not be an issue.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-l...s/art-20047097

Also, Vitamin D helps with calcium absorption.

I was very surprised the doctor didn't even SUGGEST trying out supplements - but just pushed a pill.

[Mitsu3000gt]

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It can have an effect if you have issues regulating calcium already. But for healthy, active people .... should not be an issue.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-l...s/art-20047097

Also, Vitamin D helps with calcium absorption.

I was very surprised the doctor didn't even SUGGEST trying out supplements - but just pushed a pill.

Thanks - nothing to lose by giving it a try. How long after you started taking calcium did you notice an improvement?

[revelations]

like 2 days later.....

[Mitsu3000gt]

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like 2 days later.....

Cool I will give it a try - thanks for all the info.

[you&me]

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I've always been a good sleeper. Usually 7 hours a night. Having a kid and being up every few hours has changed my performance significantly. I definitely know I'm not as effective at work. Critical thinking is slower. More simple mistakes. Has been obvious to me.

+1

I was really smart and stuff, until I had kids and the sleeplessness that accompanies them. Ever since then, um... What was I saying?

[J-hop]

If anyone else has trouble getting to sleep like I do I found a podcast that sometimes seems to help. It’s called “sleep with me” with drew Ackerman. Basically he talks about very mundane stuff in a monotone voice with the intent of focusing your mind off of the rat race but not peaking your interest enough to keep you engaged and awake. Kind of a weird idea but has helped me on a few occasions

[mr2mike]

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I believe it. Sleep has been the #1 most important thing to me. To the point it probably has ruined some relationships because I put it above all else.
It all starts with a good nights rest.

Max_boost, the "finishes and then rolls over and goes to sleep" guy.