Attempted Armed B&E - Church Ranches

[CMW403]

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I wouldn't spend too much time going over what could have been if circumstances were different.

Getting bent out of shape over hypothetical outcomes can be detrimental to your mental health. Instead try to look at it from an optimistic angle; you didn't get injured or killed, and you didn't do anything that would land you in jail either. The number of ways this could have played out compared with the way it did, I think you should just consider yourself fortunate and put your focus elsewhere.

Do you have any idea on how you might deter thieves in the future?

When I was reading this I was thinking that if you had a camera system it may have made them think twice, and even if they had not, it could have captured the plate number. You can get some pretty advanced systems these days for not a lot of cash.

Thanks a lot Sugarphreak.

Six of those 360 degree $250 Ring units have already been ordered. I am also going to put a couple cameras up covering the entrance to my small crescent and the entrance to my driveway. I would also like to look into a motion sensor at the end of the driveway that dings my phone when a vehicle drives in.

The reason they chose my house is because it is out of sight from the street/end of driveway. To be honest, a gate and call-box have been in the plans since the beginning, I already have my sandstone wall up on either side of the driveway. A full on shootout could have gone on in front of my house and no one would have seen anything. After this incident I realized data is too cheap to not have all of that real estate under hi-def motion detection camera at all times. Its just not worth it to not have 360 degrees around your house under CCTV 100% of the time all the time.

[revelations]

OP you didnt mention how these assholes gained entrance. Was a door left open?

[CMW403]

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OP you didnt mention how these assholes gained entrance. Was a door left open?

I believe so. Unfortunate because the door is hidden away and never used. I believe one of my young nieces or nephews probably used the door the last time they were here for a family event and left it unlocked as it is in a back room where we keep toys for the kids to play with when they come over.

UPDATE TO ORIGINAL POST WITH CTV STORY AND REWARD OFFERED

[roopi]

Glad to hear you are ok. None of your neighbors caught anything on camera?

A few months ago a few people tried breaking into a neighbors house and he shared the video with me. After seeing that I immediately ordered cameras as well.

[Maxt]

The news describes the woman as Caucasian, but you said could be native?
Maybe it's time to make a rural crime thread to post incidents in. Keep all the descriptions in one place, since a lot of the time, it's the same people over and over again.

[CMW403]

Yeah I only saw the back of her head but her hair had that really really dark deep red the natives have going on. Its actually quite a beautiful color, some of them take advantage of it and it looks really good. This girl on the other hand, she was definitely not keeping track of how she handled her hair.

EDIT: I did tell the officer that she was white or native but he probably kept that out of the description because he thought it may be a tad racist? I didn't think so but to each his own.

Her hair was in a definite pony tail I can tell you that. And she was fast.

[tcon]

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If the OP took a shot gun to these guys and killed them with the G17 in their hands, there would have been no questions asked.

I thought we covered this in the Castle thread from a while back already. Deadly force can be met with deadly force in Canada.

I'm sure the RCMP would still attempt to hit you with a slew of firearms charges like improper handling, improper storage, using an unregistered fire arm, etc. In the end you may end up out of prison but it would be a long grueling process.

[CMW403]

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I'm sure the RCMP would still attempt to hit you with a slew of firearms charges like improper handling, improper storage, using an unregistered fire arm, etc. In the end you may end up out of prison but it would be a long grueling process.

This was my exact thought process.

I'd have to hire a majorly high priced lawyer to get me through all of those charges and then in the end it would have been an expensive event that I probably would have taken some pride in for a day or two but ultimately regretted it.

Not worth it.

[Maxt]

I wonder how it would play out if you would have beaten one of them to death with the bat while they were armed?
They'll be caught, get a haircut ,a new suit, tell the understanding caring activist judge they've joined junior forest wardens which turned their lives around, and be out the next day to victimize your neighbour.

[born2workoncars]

Came expecting Spikers to explain how he would’ve man-handled the situation.

Left satisfied.

Good luck OP! Glad you’re ok. Hope they catch the fuckers.

[tonytiger55]

WOW... Muddha fuckers. Just reading the post made my blood boil. These fuckers were in your home.

Glad your ok and no family was at home. Thats pretty good attention to detail.
Adrenaline and the rush of blood to the head can do all sorts. It could have easily gone the other way.

The thing about engaging the other person is that you don't know what is going on through their head. They may be high on something or withdrawal effects may put them in a very edgy state of mind. Mega props on keeping your cool. I doubt I would have been able to.

Hell if it was me it would have played out like this..

I mean these idiots go to burgle the house. One guy looks though the door to the toilet. He suddenly sees me taking a shit AFTER taking a shower. Thats pretty hardcore.. I mean thats some determination right there. (I would not fuck with a guy who does that.... would you?)



Then it hits him... the stench.. it BAD. Lasts nights butter chicken. Its almost as if a animal had crawled up Tony Tigers ass and just decided to die right here. The burglar reels back wide eyed gasping for air..



The native girl steps forwards towards the first guy and then freezes. The second guy looks over to see what is going on and notices the girl is standing looking confused.. she then starts swatting air in front of her with a look of confusion..like there are invisible flies or something. Perplexed the second guy attempts to move forward but he stops dead in his tracks as the stench of hell hits him, its like the explosive blast from the movie independence day.



Its all happening in slow motion. He pauses for a second and mumbles... 'Son of a bitch'.
The girl screams.



They scramble to the car and punch it in reverse.
Out of the corner I jump out and try to take a swing at the car. Knowing my luck I miss and fall..but then I would stumble, fall and then start rolling towards the car.
It would be like the scene from The Simpsons intro... the take on Indiana Jones... the giant rolling ball. TonyTiger is rolling down the drive towards the car..gaining momentum.



The native girl is sitting the back seat. She screams and points to the giant bowling ball that is Tony Tiger rolling towards them. The first guy is sitting in the passenger seat semi conscious. Upon seeing the giant bowling ball that is Me... he screams...Faster! Faster..!
The second guy yells, its a fucking Matrix..its giving it all its got.

Native girl starts to sob... she screams 'We all going to die!!!'
At the last moment the matrix hand brake turns around the corner, I fly past the car and continue rolling.. crashing through the neighbours fence and into the duck pond.

Sorry CMW403. Its Sunday.. I could not resist and had to add funnies.. but yes... a very serious scenario.

Glad your ok. Hope they catch the cunts.

[revelations]

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I'm sure the RCMP would still attempt to hit you with a slew of firearms charges like improper handling, improper storage, using an unregistered fire arm, etc. In the end you may end up out of prison but it would be a long grueling process.

No sir, that is not how it works in Canada - esp an unrestricted firearm like a shotty. You need to read the Castle thread, this was all laid out and cases shown where people defended themselves with deadly force without any issues.

Recent case to mind comes in from SK last year where a woman shot and killed an unarmed intruder.

[tcon]

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No sir, that is not how it works in Canada - esp an unrestricted firearm like a shotty. You need to read the Castle thread, this was all laid out and cases shown where people defended themselves with deadly force without any issues.

Recent case to mind comes in from SK last year where a woman shot and killed an unarmed intruder.

Wouldn't surprise me if she got off a little easier because she was a woman.
I'll counter with this case:
http://calgarysun.com/news/crime/rcm...-confrontation

RCMP do not like gun owners, that's a fact.

Regardless, I'd rather be in jail and alive, than dead with my guns still locked up in the stack-on.

[revelations]

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Wouldn't surprise me if she got off a little easier because she was a woman.
I'll counter with this case:
http://calgarysun.com/news/crime/rcm...-confrontation

RCMP do not like gun owners, that's a fact.

Regardless, I'd rather be in jail and alive, than dead with my guns still locked up in the stack-on.

If it was the home owner who was shooting while the suspects were fleeing, how is that self defense? Thats is a poor example and exactly what you're not supposed to do.

OP stated a person was in their home pointing a firearm. Thats grounds for instant death in Canada and has been supported by case law many times.

You generally cant shoot a fleeing person and claim self defence, especially if they are out of your home. This is where people have gotten into trouble with the law - even then - many of these cases ended up with the defendant winning - but after legal proceedings.

[sexualbanana]

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Wouldn't surprise me if she got off a little easier because she was a woman.
I'll counter with this case:
http://calgarysun.com/news/crime/rcm...-confrontation

RCMP do not like gun owners, that's a fact.

Regardless, I'd rather be in jail and alive, than dead with my guns still locked up in the stack-on.

The article doesn't really have a lot of detail, so I'll deduce what I can. Self-defence and castle laws are of interest to me, but I'm not a lawyer so take it for what it's worth.

Self-defence laws are of the immediate situation and relates to the immediate threat. For example, Person A and Person B are both at a bar, and Person B begins to threaten, or even assault, Person A. The altercation ends and Person B begins to walk away. The initial incident is now over and Person A is no longer under threat from Person B. If Person A were to re-engage Person B, then Person A has become the aggressor and self-defence no longer becomes a viable defence.

I say that, because I'm GUESSING that's what the three counts of aggravated assault were for. Mr. Maurice, the homeowner, confronted the burglars and forced the burglars to flee. Seeing as the burglars were running away and no longer a threat to Mr. Maurice, the initial threat is now over.

While the burglars were fleeing, Mr. Maurice fired at the fleeing burglars - thus accounting for the charges of careless use of a firearms and pointing a firearm. Given that there was no immediate threat to Mr. Maurice, he became the instigator. Given that an 'unknown number of shots was fired,' it may suggest that Mr. Maurice wasn't aware of how many shots were actually fired.

Another suggestion could be that he fired the gun in a random direction to scare the burglars. Both uses are pretty negligent ways to use a firearm. This is likely, as the article states that shots were fired before the burglars fled.

The basic idea of using firearms for self-defence is that you can use it deter and defend, but you can't use it to enforce. So basically, if a burglar is in your house, they have to prove an immediate threat to your safety. If you shoot a burglar in the back while they're rummaging through your cupboards, there's no immediate threat to you, and it becomes aggravated assault on your part.

That's why store clerks don't usually get charged with assault when they fight back against robbers.

[CMW403]

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WOW... Muddha fuckers. Just reading the post made my blood boil. These fuckers were in your home.

Glad your ok and no family was at home. Thats pretty good attention to detail.
Adrenaline and the rush of blood to the head can do all sorts. It could have easily gone the other way.

The thing about engaging the other person is that you don't know what is going on through their head. They may be high on something or withdrawal effects may put them in a very edgy state of mind. Mega props on keeping your cool. I doubt I would have been able to.

Hell if it was me it would have played out like this..

I mean these idiots go to burgle the house. One guy looks though the door to the toilet. He suddenly sees me taking a shit AFTER taking a shower. Thats pretty hardcore.. I mean thats some determination right there. (I would not fuck with a guy who does that.... would you?)



Then it hits him... the stench.. it BAD. Lasts nights butter chicken. Its almost as if a animal had crawled up Tony Tigers ass and just decided to die right here. The burglar reels back wide eyed gasping for air..



The native girl steps forwards towards the first guy and then freezes. The second guy looks over to see what is going on and notices the girl is standing looking confused.. she then starts swatting air in front of her with a look of confusion..like there are invisible flies or something. Perplexed the second guy attempts to move forward but he stops dead in his tracks as the stench of hell hits him, its like the explosive blast from the movie independence day.



Its all happening in slow motion. He pauses for a second and mumbles... 'Son of a bitch'.
The girl screams.



They scramble to the car and punch it in reverse.
Out of the corner I jump out and try to take a swing at the car. Knowing my luck I miss and fall..but then I would stumble, fall and then start rolling towards the car.
It would be like the scene from The Simpsons intro... the take on Indiana Jones... the giant rolling ball. TonyTiger is rolling down the drive towards the car..gaining momentum.



The native girl is sitting the back seat. She screams and points to the giant bowling ball that is Tony Tiger rolling towards them. The first guy is sitting in the passenger seat semi conscious. Upon seeing the giant bowling ball that is Me... he screams...Faster! Faster..!
The second guy yells, its a fucking Matrix..its giving it all its got.

Native girl starts to sob... she screams 'We all going to die!!!'
At the last moment the matrix hand brake turns around the corner, I fly past the car and continue rolling.. crashing through the neighbours fence and into the duck pond.

Sorry CMW403. Its Sunday.. I could not resist and had to add funnies.. but yes... a very serious scenario.

Glad your ok. Hope they catch the cunts.

I had just smoked with uncle murray outside before coming in and reading this, I can tell you that I laughed for about a half hour straight and I read it a few times over. You have a penchant for story telling my friend. Thank you for the comic relief.

[tonytiger55]

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The article doesn't really have a lot of detail, so I'll deduce what I can. Self-defence and castle laws are of interest to me, but I'm not a lawyer so take it for what it's worth.

Self-defence laws are of the immediate situation and relates to the immediate threat. For example, Person A and Person B are both at a bar, and Person B begins to threaten, or even assault, Person A. The altercation ends and Person B begins to walk away. The initial incident is now over and Person A is no longer under threat from Person B. If Person A were to re-engage Person B, then Person A has become the aggressor and self-defence no longer becomes a viable defence.

I say that, because I'm GUESSING that's what the three counts of aggravated assault were for. Mr. Maurice, the homeowner, confronted the burglars and forced the burglars to flee. Seeing as the burglars were running away and no longer a threat to Mr. Maurice, the initial threat is now over.

While the burglars were fleeing, Mr. Maurice fired at the fleeing burglars - thus accounting for the charges of careless use of a firearms and pointing a firearm. Given that there was no immediate threat to Mr. Maurice, he became the instigator. Given that an 'unknown number of shots was fired,' it may suggest that Mr. Maurice wasn't aware of how many shots were actually fired.

Another suggestion could be that he fired the gun in a random direction to scare the burglars. Both uses are pretty negligent ways to use a firearm. This is likely, as the article states that shots were fired before the burglars fled.

The basic idea of using firearms for self-defence is that you can use it deter and defend, but you can't use it to enforce. So basically, if a burglar is in your house, they have to prove an immediate threat to your safety. If you shoot a burglar in the back while they're rummaging through your cupboards, there's no immediate threat to you, and it becomes aggravated assault on your part.

That's why store clerks don't usually get charged with assault when they fight back against robbers.

There was a case many years ago in the UK. A farmer named Tony Martin killed a teen burglar fleeing his property. Looking at the whole picture the burglars were trouble makers and had been for a while. But because the burglar was fleeing Tony Martin was convicted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)

The was a second case recently where a pensioner killed a burglar. he was not charged as his safety was in danger.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-killing.html

[Kloubek]

That's fucking crazy man. Glad you are ok. And glad that
a) You DIDN'T have a gun and used it. They might have shot back and with two of them with guns and all...
b) They chose to run rather than mess you up. While I'm sure you would have done your best, it's pretty hard to fight back against a couple of people with guns.

Crazy crazy stuff.

[CMW403]

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That's fucking crazy man. Glad you are ok. And glad that
a) You DIDN'T have a gun and used it. They might have shot back and with two of them with guns and all...
b) They chose to run rather than mess you up. While I'm sure you would have done your best, it's pretty hard to fight back against a couple of people with guns.

Crazy crazy stuff.

Thanks.

I'm actually starting to really wish I had a rifle instead of a baseball bat.

I can't sleep. Im going to spend on alarms but I'm just plain angry someone came into my house a put a gun on me and I to be completely honest, I wanted my chance to respond with equal force. Next time I will respond with equal force and we'll see who comes out on top.

They didn't even have the empathy to include my swingin' dick in the news report, PM me I want to talk to you about that CTV. I was naked and I still had the biggest gun on the property and I'll put my grandfather's name on that.

[Disoblige]

Hey CMW, like most mentioned here, glad you're OKAY and that's one hell of a story.

Have you considered having a dog on the property as well? Alarms may help, but nothing better than a dog sensing every nook and cranny around the house if they hear something. More to alert you than actual physical protection, to be clear. Also may help with you mentally.